Alternative Fuel E85 E-85 Ethanol Corn Gas E70 (Advanced) [MERGED]

[TranceNRG]

THIS WILL BE RESERVED FOR ADVANCED E85 QUESTIONS, NOT "IS IT POSSIBLE?" THE BEGINNER E85 THREAD IS HERE FOR THOSE TYPES OF QUESTIONS ---> http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/59040-e85-ethanol-corn-gas-beginner-merged-5-24-8-a.html?highlight=E85+MERGED

HOPEFULLY THIS WILL MAKE THE INFORMATION MORE CENTRALIZED AND EASIER TO FIND FOR THE DSM'rs WHO ARE SERIOUSLY WANTING TO DO THE CONVERSION OR HAVE DONE IT AND HAVE MORE DETAILED QUESTIONS. Below is a quick Ethanol/E85 (Advanced) rundown before you start reading through the merged threads, maybe this will answer you question a bit sooner. To quickly navigate this thread for keywords use the "SEARCH THIS THREAD" tool located in the top right hand corner of this post.

THANKS,

GOFER

__________________________________________________​

The stock tank and fuel lines will work fine running E85 and you don't have to change timing on your car when you convert to E85. The smallest pump you'll want to run is a Walbro 255 (rewired), its convenient because it drops right in with a cheap install kit and its a bit cheaper then a Bosch. When you upgrade to such a high flowing fuel pump you'll also need to grab a adjustable fuel pressure regulator (AFPR) to keep everything in check. I also suggest (its not necessary) to upgrade to a FueLab fuel filter with a 40 micron metal element, the Ethanol will eat the OE paper filter over time.

Depending on what time of year it is or your location will determine what type of Ethanol you have available at the pump. Gas stations receive E100 (100% Ethanol) year round and then blend it with 87 octane gasoline and depending on the blend (E85 or E70) it will change the ethanol content rating, octane, and specific gravity of the fuel itself. The typical blends are summer (E85) and winter (E70) which is the MINIMUM amount of ethanol blended with gasoline.

Winter blend (E70)- 70% E100 (113oct) and 30% pump (87oct) with a final octane rating of 105.
Summer blend (E85)- 85% E100 (113oct) and 15% pump (87oct) with a final octane rating of 109.​

FINDING OUT WHAT INJECTORS YOU NEED
Since the chemical makeup of ethanol is different you must account for it in your injectors flow rating. To do so you use the following equation by inputing the injectors flow rated on gas multiplied by 0.67. For example, I'll use 750cc injectors and estimate the flow capabilities of them running E85.

750 x 0.67 = 502.5​

After you make the switch to E85 your 750cc injectors will flow 502cc which you'd find out isn't even enough to support the airflow of a 16g turbo.

For you mathematicians, you can also do the equation backwards if you know what size of injectors you would need for you turbo setup on pump gas. For example, a 20g turbos max airflow is 52 lbs/min so on pump gas you would need 880cc injectors to support it.

"pump rated injector flow" x 0.67 = 880
"pump rated injector flow" = 880 / 0.67
"pump rated injector flow" = 1313cc​

After doing the above equation you find that a 1300cc injector will flow about 880cc which is what you want to support a 20g, so before you convert to E85 you need to get 1300cc injectors!​

Like the title says, what did you use to convert to E85?

 

[MY1GDSM]

Closest E85 station is listed as an hour away from me.

My bad, I got you mixed up with LiQUiDx

 

[96awd]

I'm in the process of setting my car up for e85 as well. I've bought the STM tank to rail kit, Aeromotive AFPR, all -6an lines, PTE 1600cc injectors, and a Magnus fuel rail. I've already got a rewired walbro 255 and within the next 2 months, i'll be adding an inline 044. The closest e85 station is 4 minutes away from me... literally.

As everyone said, don't half-ass it the first time. Do it right and it's one less thing you have to replace in the end.. unless you wanna do bigger lines.

 

[MY1GDSM]

As everyone said, don't half-ass it the first time. Do it right and it's one less thing you have to replace in the end.. unless you wanna do bigger lines.

It's usually best to speak for yourself I never said to "half-ass it"(neither did "everyone") and don't agree with changing the lines... Not saying your implying that I did...

But I'll say yet again in another thread that their is no reason to swap the stock lines out an it's by no means doing anything" half-ass"

Only way I see a reason is if you have some type of HUGE power goal...

I hope to that you realize that by swapping out for -6an line you effectively didn't upgrade anything you simply replaced them...

 

[gofer]

Only way I see a reason is if you have some type of HUGE power goal...

I hope to that you realize that by swapping out for -6an line you effectively didn't upgrade anything you simply replaced them...

+1 with this, it's not doing things half-ass its staying with in budget of whats required with your setup. For example, running a stage 4 shep tranny on a stock 2g is overkill or running 2150cc injectors and dual fuel pumps for a Evo III 16g. Sure you aren't hurting anything by going over the top for your setup but running new -6AN fuel lines is definitely NOT necessary, neither is an aftermarket fuel rail. If you've got cash burning holes in your pockets and have nothing better to spend it on, then replace the entire fuel system...

 

[SpawnedX]

I don't think anyone called it an upgrade, it's just good to do on worn out rusty stock lines that will eventually need replacing from age.

 

[thetalonator]

dude, what the #### does that even mean? Are you implying that E85 and Gasoline have vastly differing viscosities? They don't. But E85 does contain much less energy per volume unit, so you need about a 50% larger fuel system.

ok i read E85 has a higher density I assumed that ment thicker viscosity. correct me if im wrong. How could E85 have a higher RON rating then Gas and have less energy?

 

[MY1GDSM]

Because...
An Octane rating does not relate to the energy content of a fuel.

A Octane rating is only a measure of the fuel's tendency to burn in a controlled manner, rather than explode...

 

[thetalonator]

Because...
An Octane rating does not relate to the energy content of a fuel.

A Octane rating is only a measure of the fuel's tendency to burn in a controlled manner, rather than explode...

Thanks for clearing that up. im no expert on the matter. I always thought the higher the octane the more combustable.
I learn somethin new on here everyday.

 

[blaze12]

spawned got it do it right or why do it

pretty sure that the higher the octane rating the less chance for knock or detonation and that turbo cars need higher octane gas

 

[MY1GDSM]

do it right or why do it

Exactly ^

Captain Obvious over here...
if you don't have something intelligent to post why post at all?

For the last time,
First hand experience talking here as well...

Their is nothing wrong with using your stock lines with E85 it will More then support any amount of horsepower that 99% of the people having to ask will be reaching... I've ran it for years (among others) an have yet to see a problem with my lines...

 

[cficare68]

spawned got it do it right or why do it

pretty sure that the higher the octane rating the less chance for knock or detonation and that turbo cars need higher octane gas

From what I was told anything about 25psi will detonate running pump gas. However with E-85 the skies the limit.

 

[thetalonator]

From what I was told anything about 25psi will detonate running pump gas. However with E-85 the skies the limit.

All depnds on the tune. You can tune out most knock but, pulling timing is the same as pulling boost You gotta find the happy medium with the fuel your using. E85 is the most inexpensive and most power gaining uprade for a turbo car. I strongly suggest converting if possible. We need a bigger demand for the E85 so it will become more available to us and also drive the price of gasoline down. Only one gas station around me sells it so, i was strongly debating but since my cars not a dd i did it. The results are amazing.

 

[allrice4g63]

so would using evoscan/ecuflash with a open port 2.0 cable in a 98 ecu be a good setup for tunning on E85.

 

[oneslowevo]

so would using evoscan/ecuflash with a open port 2.0 cable in a 98 ecu be a good setup for tunning on E85.

yes

 

[Absit]

If you do go that route, invest in Big Maps. The stock maps are so small it's just silly.

 

[allrice4g63]

like evo 8 maps perhaps or bigger than that. Or would evo 8 maps still be for 92 octane gas i suppose so something double the size of stock maps?

 

[97-gst]

I stumbled across a gas station close to my house that sells e85 so I bought 5 gallons of it the other day, the dragstrip opens up sonn so I really wanna get this done... my current fuel mods are 1050cc injectors, a 255 in tank, afpr, and tuning on dsmlink, so what i ve found out so far is that I need to run 9.5 at idle instead of 14.5 a/f ratio, and then low 12 at wot, is that right? I also read that e85 will eat through my gas hoses.... how long could I run it before it will mess that up? Any other tuning tips or suggestions would be helpful.. oh and I'm running a mhi evo III 16g currently at 20 psi on stock internals, I read that some people are running 29 psi on this same setup

 

[2GFWDbeast]

this is not true about the gas hoses getting eaten away by E85. I come across a ton of people thinking this. Car manufactures converted gas lines back in 1985 for ethanol gases. On your wideband at wot make sure you seeing around 12.1 at wot, and at idle should be around 14.7

 

[DSM_munky_man]

If you are using v3 on the main fuel tab use the calculate button and set the Stoich to 9.5-9.6 or so and then set injector size and pressure then calculate and use that. That will be the global setting for your e 85. but 2gfwd is correct, you will read your WB as normal. Only way it will be 9.5 or so on a WB is if you get an e85 specific wideband.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

The only thing your really gonna have to do is change out your fuel filter, after a couple tanks of E85.

 

[arturorz]

this is not true about the gas hoses getting eaten away by E85. I come across a ton of people thinking this. Car manufactures converted gas lines back in 1985 for ethanol gases. On your wideband at wot make sure you seeing around 12.1 at wot, and at idle should be around 14.7

+ 1.

Your hoses will be just fine.
I you have 1050cc injectors, once you switch to e85 they are going to be more like 703.5 cc.

1050 x 0.67 = 703.5 cc

Now that you know how much injectors you have, you can determine how much you want to run.

 

[daplatano91]

Be ready to change your oil twice as often.

 

[arturorz]

Be ready to change your oil twice as often.

Why > ??

 

[2GFWDbeast]

ya i dont know about that never ever heard anyone changing there oil more because of e85. Iv been running e85 for over a year now. Unless your at the track every other day racing it then yes you should change your oil more often.

 

[Rollinukwn]

Why > ??

Might wanna get a new trans tooo...

You dont have to change your oil anymore then normal.