New 85% Ethanol Gas

[jmdombr]

Some gas stations around Chicago have this new 85% ethanol gas?
What is this, should i run it?
Will it run better?

Anyone else seen this?

 

[out there]

i think it's like that all over up north, i only see 10% ethanol on the mid-grade at most stations... premium and low at a few

 

[FireyIce01]

Thought I'd bring this back for a minute and throw some numbers into it that I found as well as production for those of you that live in towns like nebraska and indiana where there's a large corn/grain market...

Taken from http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual1-2.html

When a fuel is burned, a certain amount of air is required for complete combustion. When the quantity of air and the quantity of fuel are exactly balanced, the fuel air mixture is said to be "stoichiometrically" correct. Again referring to Figure 2-2, the stoichiometric ratio for gasoline is 15:1 or 15 pounds of air for each pound of gasoline. The figures for methyl and ethyl alcohol are 6.45:1 and 9:1 respectively. On a practical level, this means that to burn alcohol effectively, the fuel jets in the carburetor must be changed or adjusted to provide 2.3 pounds of methanol or 1.66 pounds of ethanol for each 15 pounds of air.

Referring to the last entry in Figure 2-2, an interesting fact is that if we provide the correct stoichiometric mixture and then compare on the basis of the energy (in Btu's) contained in each cubic foot of the different fuel/air mixtures, the fuels are almost identical: gasoline 94.8 Btu per cubic foot; methanol 94.5 and ethanol 94.7! This means that gasoline and alcohol are about equal in what is called "volumetric efficiency" when burned in a correctly adjusted engine

 

[out there]

so... without reading all of this (because i'm already pretty tired), are you trying to tell us that e85 will work just fine in our cars??

:laugh: not the same way that it does with gasoline

 

[FireyIce01]

so... without reading all of this (because i'm already pretty tired), are you trying to tell us that e85 will work just fine in our cars??

:laugh: not the same way that it does with gasoline

Yes and no. As I posted earlier, there's things you have to change, but it will produce roughly the same (or slightly more depending on tune) power than gasoline, and my post is more aimed towards pure alcohol than e85. You would most likely need to set your base timing closer to 15* and put massive injectors (think about double the fuel consumption) There's more to it, but if you look into the link, there's a LOT of extra info about the production and chemistry of alcohol.

 

[out there]

the page looked like something good that i could get into. let me sum it up this way though... stay away from e85 with your car the way it is now, it won't like it

 

[FireyIce01]

the page looked like something good that i could get into. let me sum it up this way though... stay away from e85 with your car the way it is now, it won't like it

Yea, I may be moving to a house with about 6 usable acres, so I'm planning on starting an orchard... that'll be a start, between that, a daily newspaper subscription and possibly the leftover shavings from when my mom cleans her stalls, and some misc other places I'm going to barter for waste fruits and such, I think I'll have enough raw product to make a usable amount of alcohol.

 

[out there]

i wasn't referring to the problem of getting alcohol, i was referring to the problem of running alcohol

 

[FireyIce01]

i wasn't referring to the problem of getting alcohol, i was referring to the problem of running alcohol

Yea, but that page really doesn't say a lot about running it, so I figured you meant the making... as far as running, I think there's little more than advanced timing, larger injectors and fuel pump, and removal or certian types of rubbers from your fuel system (don't think there's *that* much rubber in the fuel system anyway) I'm going to be using my 280z as a test bed for the running.

 

[out there]

defiant had mentioned something about it corroding zinc and i think someone else said something about aluminum. make sure you look into that before you go eating away your entire 280z fuel system

 

[JrCRXHF]

Yes and no. As I posted earlier, there's things you have to change, but it will produce roughly the same (or slightly more depending on tune) power than gasoline, and my post is more aimed towards pure alcohol than e85. You would most likely need to set your base timing closer to 15* and put massive injectors (think about double the fuel consumption) There's more to it, but if you look into the link, there's a LOT of extra info about the production and chemistry of alcohol.

i have a turbo CRX that runs on both with a B16. you just need about 30% more injector but you car has to be tuned to a different A/F the fuel is about as hot as C116 so this is where the tune will pick up more power for u because you can jack the timming up and you will not see knock near as quick. but you will use more fuel the other side is that the fuel is much colder so it works as a charge cooler at the same time.

 

[JrCRXHF]

defiant had mentioned something about it corroding zinc and i think someone else said something about aluminum. make sure you look into that before you go eating away your entire 280z fuel system

methonal yeah it will eat but not ethonal.

 

[Boost Lee]

While I was at my local speed shop today, I got into a conversation with the shop owner who is coincidentally converting a customers T4 powered '94 all-wheeler to run on ethanol for next season. The first thing that caught my attention was when he mentioned the size and number of injectors they were going to use. 4-8 1600cc.

The second thing that got my attention, was when he told me the new owner of his old turbocharged crx drag car made close to a 100 hp increase recently after going to an eth setup from c16. 100 hp! He went on to say that at the end of a run the intercooler was almost completely frosted over!!

The third and final thing that grabbed my attention, was the cost. $2.00 a gallon. I understand it burns faster, but when compared to $8.00 a gallon for vp16 or $5.00 for 110, I was convinced. And there are a couple places that sell it locally!! No more wandering around looking for race gas.

He did specifically say however, the vehicle must have a good tune or else things will go wrong quickly. I need to stop by his shop tomorrow to pay for my new motor, and I'll be sure to pick his brain some more about what appears to be a magic fuel..