those who have made 400+ on an EVO III 16g

[dsm-onster]

But its a d-jet. they read real high just for bragging rights

 

[JayRolla]

But its a d-jet. they read real high just for bragging rights

All 400whp+ 16g dynos are usually done on a dyno jet. Thats where I will be going when I dyno, .

 

[dsm-onster]

It doesn't matter the number of wheels you're turning. It's wheel horsepower that counts. We all know a FWD car will read higher wheel horsepower on the dyno. What matters is what is the weight and what is the wheel horsepower: that is what you will do at the track.

 

[98spydert]

This thread is getting old but I did this with my FWD about 4 years ago and it wasn't too hard. Might as well post it up.

Intake manifold, throttle body, complete head were all 1G stock parts. FP2 cams were the only mod in the head. The short block was the original '98 with 80k miles on it. Used ARP headstuds and a MLS gasket.

Turbo/exhaust was a DNP tubular manifold, EVOIII 16G w/ bullseye stainless exhaust housing, 3" 02 eliminator down pipe with external Tial, 3.35" cat back.

Intake and FMIC set up were made by me. Intake was 3", piping from IC to turbo was 2.25" and IC to TB was 2.5 w/ a 3" blow thru GM MAF set up FMIC was 28x8x3.

Fuel was 650s, Walbro 190, FTS AFPR, single 600cc methanol injection system running 80/20 mix

I ran 26psi on 91oct, tuned with DSMLink, and made 402whp in 3rd gear and in the same season trapped 119mph. I think I could have ran faster if I wasn't on street wheels and tires spinning 3/4 of the way down the track. Timing peaked at 21, AFPR was average 12.1, no knock at all. Probably had more in her at a few more PSI.

I don't really remember the TQ or have any of the old paperwork. It was a long time ago and I sold the car about 2 years ago. I had a whole page full of mods but those are the power adders that did the work. Maybe the recipe will help someone, I'm on to bigger and badder things now

 

[dsm-onster]

That BEP turbine housing flows a bit more than a stock 7cm^2 16g turbine housing.

 

[RipperXX]

I have seen two sources now claiming 2/lb more airflow when they swapped the housings.




I as well sometimes get knock in 4th gear vs 3rd. So IMHO tuning in ALL gears makes since to me. Start at 3rd, once you have a clean log move to 4th and see if you still do and then 5th (on a dyno, I wouldn't advise street running in 5th ) But I will admit I have done some 4th gear tuning. And to the nay sayers. It's largely IMHO about when and where you do it on the street. Common since should be used there. (So get the #### out of the city and traffic first!)

 

[boosted86]

But its a d-jet. they read real high just for bragging rights

hmmm, i beg to differ. my buddy owns the shop that i got the run on, he owns a 2003 m3 and puts down right around 265whp on this exact dyno. if anything it reads a tad bit low, ( m3's usually give around 270-275 whp) so i think d-jets are about right... at least this one .

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

had to respond to this;
this was done with a stock 1g inatke manifold, and yes STOCK CAMS. secret... there is none. high boost( 28) , decent peak timing ( 22) and fair a/f's .. E85 is what i used to get me there. ... dont say that ppl lie when u have no bases on ## accusations.

That is a generalization, not a must have list. I know of a lot of people that lie. As for you, the 8.5:1 compression, a healthy amount of boost, a lot of timing, and im guessing aggressive afrs and of course e85 are really helping you make those numbers

 

[byebyev8]

I'm also close to the 400whp mark according to my trap speed 12.4 at 115. Thats with terrible shifting and the car blowing the headgasket in 4th. My car has at least 3 more mph in it as this was my first run at the track also. This is on stock cams, stock jdm motor with 7.8.1 compression, No porting of the manifold or turbo, and a leaking 1g crushed bov. 12.1 afr 22degree peak timing 28psi. cars weighs around 3100.

 

[FonZ454]

Well after my original big 16g having TONS of shaft play, I put an AGP 60-1 on the car. It was very fun at ~26 psi but it blew.

I now have an Evo3 on the car, but I don't know how serious I'll get with it. I got another turbo setup in the garage that I'm really waiting for.

There's an e85 station that just opened a few miles away from my work, I may try that stuff out.

 

[caliboy23]

Personally I refuse to believe a WHP claim unless it's been backed up by 3 completely seperate dyno's. For example, if I dyno my car over at Road Race, I won't claim WHP until I dyno at 2 other shops. That's just because I've personally witnessed SO MANY dyno descrepancies it would make your head spin. In some cases the descrepancy was over 150 WHP and everyone was claiming that they do it the right way. I personally have dyno'd 214 WHP on 1 dyno and 278 on another dyno with no boost or tuning adjustments of any kind made to the car. And that was back when I was on a 14B with basic bolt ons and stock ecu.

So take that for what it's worth.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Well after my original big 16g having TONS of shaft play, I put an AGP 60-1 on the car. It was very fun at ~26 psi but it blew.

I now have an Evo3 on the car, but I don't know how serious I'll get with it. I got another turbo setup in the garage that I'm really waiting for.

There's an e85 station that just opened a few miles away from my work, I may try that stuff out.

Lucky you, lets see what you can do with ethanol!

 

[dsm-onster]

Personally I refuse to believe a WHP claim unless it's been backed up by 3 completely seperate dyno's. For example, if I dyno my car over at Road Race, I won't claim WHP until I dyno at 2 other shops. That's just because I've personally witnessed SO MANY dyno descrepancies it would make your head spin. In some cases the descrepancy was over 150 WHP and everyone was claiming that they do it the right way. I personally have dyno'd 214 WHP on 1 dyno and 278 on another dyno with no boost or tuning adjustments of any kind made to the car. And that was back when I was on a 14B with basic bolt ons and stock ecu.

So take that for what it's worth.

This is the reason why I prefer to see trap speed and weight numbers. The formula is the same for everyone to determine how much power it takes to go from 0 to Xmph with Y weight.

Well, I prefer to see actual time slips not just 'back in the day I did this' or just stating your numbers with out even a picture of a piece of paper to back it up. If I trapped 117-120 with an evo3 16g turbo, you better believe I would have the slip framed and hanging on the wall in my living room.

 

[98spydert]

If I trapped 117-120 with an evo3 16g turbo, you better believe I would have the slip framed and hanging on the wall in my living room.

Why? It's not hard. And it's a slow car in the grand scheme of DSMs. A healthy car that's put together with a little foresight, tuned properly, and not hack jobbed like most DSMs out there can and will run to the best of it's potential. Just because most people running half ass, shade tree mechanic DSMs will only use 70% of the airflow their turbo could potentially put out doesn't make the rest of us gifted (or liars).

I had a 100% healthy engine with perfect compression that was mechanically sound. I had the turbo, charge cooling ability and intake/exhaust flow to push well over 40 lbs/min of air through my engine and the fuel system, tuning tools and knowlege to tune that airflow to the corresponding power out put. And I did. Where's the secret formula? Where's the voodoo?

If you guys have the mods and aren't getting the output there's a reason why, plain and simple. Start going down the list. If your engine isn't healthy, you'll never make good power out of the air pumped through your engine and it's time for a rebuild. If your air flow is in the 30s, you'll never turn that into 120mph traps at full weight. Figure out why you're not pushing the air the rest of us are. If your tuning tools or tuning knowledge are lacking it's time to step it up. I'd guess the tuning game is where most people fall short.



Anyways... The biggest problem I had getting there was the waste gate. The evo3 waste gate would creep and spike and just plain suck. When I switched to the Bullseye housing after my evo3 housing broke (long story) it still was lacking air flow and boost response. I happen to get a HRC 3" 02 eliminator with external Tial used for cheap and gave that a try and finally saw the airflow, boost response

 

[donniekak]

I have had every "stage" of dsm, from completly stock, to full supporting mods with a big turbo, and every combination in between. A bone stock dsm, intake, smic, exhaust, upgraded pump and injectors, with a bolt on hx40 was faster than my gvr4 when it had an evo 3 and every bolt on made. The reason you don't see a lot of people with 400 hp evo 3 cars is that they have larger turbo's. How many people spend 1,000's of dollars on their car to only buy a $500 turbo? I totally believe, from some peoples traps, that an evo 3 will make an honest 400whp. The issue i have is do i want to build a 600hp car, and slap an evo 3 on it to make 400hp?

 

[slowgsr]

id be more interested in what these 400whp 16g guys are trapping in a fullweight car.. especially awd.

 

[byebyev8]

How many people spend 1,000's of dollars on their car to only buy a $500 turbo? I totally believe, from some peoples traps, that an evo 3 will make an honest 400whp. The issue i have is do i want to build a 600hp car, and slap an evo 3 on it to make 400hp?

The way i see it is why buy a huge turbo all and all supporting mods to go with it only run high 11's low 12's. My full weight awd 2g trapped 115 the 2 times i ran the car first i missed 3rd and the 2nd time it started breaking up in 4th. Next time i go to the track I'm sure 117mph traps won't be a problem.This is on a completly stock jdm 6bolt no cams etc. IMO if you don't mind running e85 the evo3 16g is the way to go if your on the stock motor or if you want the super sleeper effect.

my car weighs around 3100lbs, no a/c, carbon fiber hood and hatch are the only weight reduction.

 

[donniekak]

If i ran anything bigger than an evo 3 and ran 12's, i would sell all of my car stuff and start taking public transportation.

 

[98spydert]

I have had every "stage" of dsm, from completly stock, to full supporting mods with a big turbo, and every combination in between. A bone stock dsm, intake, smic, exhaust, upgraded pump and injectors, with a bolt on hx40 was faster than my gvr4 when it had an evo 3 and every bolt on made. The reason you don't see a lot of people with 400 hp evo 3 cars is that they have larger turbo's. How many people spend 1,000's of dollars on their car to only buy a $500 turbo? I totally believe, from some peoples traps, that an evo 3 will make an honest 400whp. The issue i have is do i want to build a 600hp car, and slap an evo 3 on it to make 400hp?

That's the whole point! We're not building 600whp set ups (i.e. $4,000 engine build + thousands more in supporting mods) we're taking the stock long block to 400whp on an affordable, easy to install, reliable, and very street happy turbo.

The opposite side to your statement, and my opinion, is that running an HX40 on a mostly stock car is stupid and a waste. Why run an HX40 turbo at 300whp when it's capable of over 600?

 

[Slippi84]

That's the whole point! We're not building 600whp set ups (i.e. $4,000 engine build + thousands more in supporting mods) we're taking the stock long block to 400whp on an affordable, easy to install, reliable, and very street happy turbo.

The opposite side to your statement, and my opinion, is that running an HX40 on a mostly stock car is stupid and a waste. Why run an HX40 turbo at 300whp when it's capable of over 600?

But your not making 400whp on a 16g with a stock long block a boost controller and a turbo back exhaust which would be a budget build. You need bigger injectors something like dsmlink or ems fmic cams race gass a good tuner and even that littlebit will add up fast. WIth all those same supporting mods you could throw a hx40 on and make 500whp and really push the stock block.

 

[dsm-onster]

Exactly. There's better choices that can make your 400whp goal easier and leave room on the table.

99% of us will not see +400whp with a non-modified (stock housings, no clips) evo3 16g without about $1000 more in parts (SMIM upgrade, better boost control, exhaust manifold upgrade, etc). A stock block with a better chosen hotside for your goal can make more power with less parts and in the end be actually more affordable.

I don't know about the rest of you, but spool by 3200rpms and spool by 3600rpms means nothing to me on the street. Once boost is seen a larger turbo is flowing more air at the same boost anyway. So who's to say that a larger turbo isn't flowing just as much air and putting down just as much power at the same rpm as a smaller turbo. I've personally seen this occur several times. Sooner boost doesn't necesarily mean sooner flow and sooner horsepower.

Why? It's not hard. And it's a slow car in the grand scheme of DSMs. A healthy car that's put together with a little foresight, tuned properly, and not hack jobbed like most DSMs out there can and will run to the best of it's potential. Just because most people running half ass, shade tree mechanic DSMs will only use 70% of the airflow their turbo could potentially put out doesn't make the rest of us gifted (or liars).

I had a 100% healthy engine with perfect compression that was mechanically sound. I had the turbo, charge cooling ability and intake/exhaust flow to push well over 40 lbs/min of air through my engine and the fuel system, tuning tools and knowlege to tune that airflow to the corresponding power out put. And I did. Where's the secret formula? Where's the voodoo?

If you guys have the mods and aren't getting the output there's a reason why, plain and simple. Start going down the list. If your engine isn't healthy, you'll never make good power out of the air pumped through your engine and it's time for a rebuild. If your air flow is in the 30s, you'll never turn that into 120mph traps at full weight. Figure out why you're not pushing the air the rest of us are. If your tuning tools or tuning knowledge are lacking it's time to step it up. I'd guess the tuning game is where most people fall short.



Anyways... The biggest problem I had getting there was the waste gate. The evo3 waste gate would creep and spike and just plain suck. When I switched to the Bullseye housing after my evo3 housing broke (long story) it still was lacking air flow and boost response. I happen to get a HRC 3" 02 eliminator with external Tial used for cheap and gave that a try and finally saw the airflow, boost response

I'm not a hack mechanic .

And your formula includes a larger and much better designed hotside. As I mention time and time again, a better chosen hotside and you're on your way to a reasonable 400whp goal without so much invested in the longblock. I saw significant improvements when upgrading the the BEP bolton housing with my td05h 18g, along with others.

You have a compressor that pushes a HAIR over 40lb/min, not well over. You however used a turbine that could push the compressor off it's map easier. So ofcourse you should be capable of seeing 400whp. So add $250 for the BEP housing to the cost of the evo3 16g. A bigger turbo is starting to look more appealing, especially since it will have a more efficient compressor and more potential (you don't HAVE to stop at 400whp with a stock block).

BOLTON turbos that have bigger hotsides and still spool within 4-600rpms of the 16g:

fp 18g ($700) 46lb/min
fp 20g ($1000) 49lb/min
hx35 ($550 new housing used turbo) 52lb/min
SBR 50trim ($725) 49lb/min
BEP 50-trim ($800) 49lb/min

Vs. 16g ($570) plus bep turbine housing ($250) 42lb/min.

 

[donniekak]

That's the whole point! We're not building 600whp set ups (i.e. $4,000 engine build + thousands more in supporting mods) we're taking the stock long block to 400whp on an affordable, easy to install, reliable, and very street happy turbo.

The opposite side to your statement, and my opinion, is that running an HX40 on a mostly stock car is stupid and a waste. Why run an HX40 turbo at 300whp when it's capable of over 600?

I swapped the turbo from my gvr4 to a talon tsi just to see what the results would be. The galant was a no penny spared build, and the talon i just upgraded the fuel. The funny thing was that with a good timing map i was able to run a good amount of boost with the holset through a stock ic 20+ psi. I did put the 16g back on my talon, because the hx40 was wasted on the mostly stock car. My point is that if all you have are basic mods, fuel, intercooler, exhaust, it makes more sense to get a bigger turbo than a 16g. Most people making 400+ o a 16g have cams, smim, fmic, exhaust, and an upgraded mani. With a bigger turbo, you can skip the cams and smim, and make more power than a 16g with all of those things.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Great points on this page.

Evo3 16gs are fun turbos and they arent that hard to get into the 11s on budget,( mines did with stock cams, stock motor, more weight, much lesser mods than I have now + race gas) So if your sure that your only looking for a low 12, high 11 sec car I see no reason why to spend money on a bigger turbo if you already have a e316g. But the point I believe some people are trying to make is that why put so much effort on over building the 16g car when with less money and effort the bigger turbo would do better. Well Im sure bragging rights is one of the reasons.
Though; now a days, with the price you can find holsets ( I picked up a good condition billet hx40 for 200bucks) there really should be no debate in purchasing a e316g over say a hx35, especially when the hx35 has so much more potential to boot. The e316g when properly setup does deliver a nice hit and feel, which I havent driven my car with the hx40 yet so I cant compare the two, but heres two things to consider about a maxed out e316g car:

1.) The turbo may or may not last very long with the type of boosted ( shaft speeds) needed for it to make 400awhp on most setups. Sure you will have guys pop up and say they've been running theres like that for a year or whatever, but on average I dont find this a reliable option.

2.) A 400awhp 16g setup can be pretty taxing to the drivetrain due to its powerband and torque curve.
Ive spoken with a few people who were up at these numbers and some of the issues they were having.
Ive come to find the linear bigger turbo ( more HP, and less of a peaky torque curve) can go just as fast and much faster without such an intense sudden blow to the drive train.This could also be compared to how a 2.3 stroker has a destructive nature to our drivetrains ( esp. 4th gears) vs a 2.0 with the same hp numbers but less torque. Ive probably said this before elsewhere, but just something to consider.

 

[98spydert]

But your not making 400whp on a 16g with a stock long block a boost controller and a turbo back exhaust which would be a budget build.

Where did I say that? WTF

You need bigger injectors something like dsmlink or ems fmic cams race gass a good tuner and even that littlebit will add up fast. WIth all those same supporting mods you could throw a hx40 on and make 500whp and really push the stock block.

I'm not interested in pushing a stock 7 bolt past 500whp. In my opinion, you're setting yourself up for engine failure and breaking cars is something I try to avoid. An HX40 is no where near as street friendly as the evo3. They're completely different turbos with completely different characteristics. In your line of thinking, why doesn't everyone just buy a turbo capable of supporting 1000whp so when our goals change, we'll never have to upgrade turbos??

 

[Slippi84]

Where did I say that? WTF



I'm not interested in pushing a stock 7 bolt past 500whp. In my opinion, you're setting yourself up for engine failure and breaking cars is something I try to avoid. An HX40 is no where near as street friendly as the evo3. They're completely different turbos with completely different characteristics. In your line of thinking, why doesn't everyone just buy a turbo capable of supporting 1000whp so when our goals change, we'll never have to upgrade turbos??

I was just throwing out a basic plain jane setup you see a lot which would fall under budget. A hx40 with bolt on housing is PLENTY streetable. You don't need a on off switch at 3k to be streetable. A saying it would be better to by a hx40 with all the mods your talking about is nothing like saying everyone should buy a 1000whp turbo. I have a hx52 which is a lot bigger than a hx40 so TRUST ME I know the difference between the two.