those who have made 400+ on an EVO III 16g

[dsm-onster]

Yes the Methanol has plenty to offer if it had a longer time to draw heat out of the air, but if you injected E85 closer to the turbo and had no intercooler, I think that might work well.. But, as far as I know, you cannot run E85 through most water/meth injection kits anyway..

Oh. You only mentioned those running e-85 should not need to run ethanol or a meth injection kit . We can;t move our injectors closer to the turbo: TBI is pretty lousy anyway.

I've been running slx denatured alcohol in my water/meth kit for years. It is 49% meth 49% eth. Methanol takes out a little more heat per part than ethanol; almost 30% more. Latent heat of vaporization of meth is 1099KJ/Kg K, eth is 854 KJ/Kg K .

 

[jrohner]

I ran no intercooler one (hot) summer, but that's when I was still tuning with the AFC so I was on the stock crappy timing map. I definitely didn't feel as strong of a hit when I'd hit full boost though it did work just fine.

 

[91-gsx]

Oh. You only mentioned those running e-85 should not need to run ethanol or a meth injection kit . We can;t move our injectors closer to the turbo: TBI is pretty lousy anyway.

I've been running slx denatured alcohol in my water/meth kit for years. It is 49% meth 49% eth. Methanol takes out a little more heat per part than ethanol; almost 30% more. Latent heat of vaporization of meth is 1099KJ/Kg K, eth is 854 KJ/Kg K .

Wells it seems plenty have run without an intercooler or a type of injection while running E85, so yes, which more then easily proves you don't NEED to have it there. When I said injecting methanol or alcohol closer to the turbo, I'm sorry if I confused anybody into thinking something stupid, like taking an actual fuel injector and placing it within close proximity of the turbo. Especially after mentioning what to use to inject the alcohol there in the first place if you were to use it very clearly...

Ds-monster: My mentioning of running an injection setup with E85 right after the turbo was in response to;

That would be why he is using meth. He need all the help because of not having the interfooler.

He mentioned needing more then just E85 without an intercooler and high boost...

Is there a benefit to injecting the fuel in your gas tank right after the turbo to cool the air until it gets to the throttle body? Yes. John Shepherd did it with Methanol. And yes E85 is not Methanol, so that skips that argument . But you should get alcohol injection results if you were to take the same E85 in your gas tank and run it in some sort of injection system. It is ethanol..

 

[Brianawd]

He mentioned needing more then just E85 without an intercooler and high boost...

Is there a benefit to injecting the fuel in your gas tank right after the turbo to cool the air until it gets to the throttle body? Yes. John Shepherd did it with Methanol. And yes E85 is not Methanol, so that skips that argument . But you should get alcohol injection results if you were to take the same E85 in your gas tank and run it in some sort of injection system. It is ethanol..

You are better off running Methanol than e85 to cool the intake charge.

The main distinction between methanol and ethanol is that methanol has a lower caloric weight (or the amount of energy available to burn when combusted), higher specific heat (takes more heat to burn the mixture) and a high heat of vaporization (when vaporized can cool down intake air temps dramatically). Ethanol is generally the same characteristics and properties as methanol, but does not cool down the intake charge as well

For engines that are fueled solely by methanol, such as race engines, it’s quite common to see ice form on the outside of the intake manifolds during operation. Methanol is able to cool down the intake air temperatures entering the cylinder head so well, that when used as the primary fuel on a forced induction engines, an intercooler is not needed no matter what the boost levels are. Most surprisingly, engines can also be ran without a radiator. This being a true testament to the cooling effects offered by methanol when.

 

[91-gsx]

You are better off running Methanol than e85 to cool the intake charge.

The main distinction between methanol and ethanol is that methanol has a lower caloric weight (or the amount of energy available to burn when combusted), higher specific heat (takes more heat to burn the mixture) and a high heat of vaporization (when vaporized can cool down intake air temps dramatically). Ethanol is generally the same characteristics and properties as methanol, but does not cool down the intake charge as well

For engines that are fueled solely by methanol, such as race engines, it's quite common to see ice form on the outside of the intake manifolds during operation. Methanol is able to cool down the intake air temperatures entering the cylinder head so well, that when used as the primary fuel on a forced induction engines, an intercooler is not needed no matter what the boost levels are. Most surprisingly, engines can also be ran without a radiator. This being a true testament to the cooling effects offered by methanol when.

I have already mentioned methanol being better, but you cannot pump methanol into your car at the gas station, I wish ... But if you want, inject methanol to cool the air and run on E85, more power to you, literally... All I'm saying is that you have over 10 gallons of ethanol in your gas tank, and some of the original tests on evo's and other cars were all done with ethanol injection and pump gas fuel... Which all netted awesome results... Just in case anybody interprets this differently then I intended, methanol is better then ethanol at cooling. I just wanted to mention, the next best alcohol to inject is chilling in your gas tank. Later

 

[jrohner]

I have already mentioned methanol being better, but you cannot pump methanol into your car at the gas station, I wish ...

Imagine the ridiculous fuel mileage on methanol! Also it's quite corrosive so it requires a fuel system that's designed for it as well as the pain of the extra maintenance involved.

Methanol is better for cooling mostly because of how much more of it you run... like 5.5:1 AFR vs the 8:1 of E85 or 11-12:1 gasoline. It's like if you want to cool something really hot off with water, a garden hose will cool it better/quicker than a spray bottle will.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Yep, I'll report my results as soon as the springs and cams go in. I based my purchase on Curt Brown's results upgrading to the FP4Rs, that's what got me "believing" the cams could be a substantial boost even on the EVO3 16g. I then just used AMS's cam shootout to then compare what the FP4R's were like vs. the Kelford's, which was a valid leap to make. I went for the highest average torque/h.p. in the range I race the car.

That's kind of how I went about the decision making process. The problem is the peak gains are gonna be tricky to extrapolate since that EVO was running a much freer flowing turbine section, ported head, intake MIVEC, and compressor that was nowhere near maxxed out. I'm trying to make the highest h.p. with a reasonable amount of boost that pump gas can handle, quality vs. quantity scenario.

What springs and retainers are you going to run. I recently picked up the Brian Crower springs and retainers for these kelford cams, but I decided Im only going to spin her out to 8k, though I was still considering 8500... Also I think these cams will do great on any turbo e316g or bigger, if anything, its probably going to make the turbo drop boost much faster while reaching peak airflow numbers at a lower psi which is good...

A friend of mine here has been running his car like this for a while, only using a hotpipe, first on an Evo316g and now on a GT3x (I don't remember the exact model). It's nasty, spools faster than my E3 does, and he makes a lot of power with it. BUT, he's decided to toss on a fmic as it's just going to help that much more.

I've actually run as lean as 16.x:1 on e85 and registered no knock, so you have to watch afr's to make sure you don't royally screw yourself on that fuel. My friend actually melted a spark plug tip even at 'normal' afr's of high 11's:1 running that hotpipe setup.

My friend Drew is running with no intercooler and pure E100. I dont know how he gets it though, but spool time decreased, and he was flowing more. I dont know all the specifics to his setup, next time I get out there Im going to take pictures as last time it was too dark, but he does have a secondary fuel rail of some sort. The intercooler will start to hold you back some if you have the right fuel to compensate for air charge temp.

 

[pboglio]

^^^FP Beehive springs and EVO aluminum retainers, supposed to be good up to 9000 rpms. I wanted to keep the price reasonable since I wasn't sure if this much cam was even gonna make me happy, we'll see. Damned Kelfords didn't come tapped for the crank angle sensor "trigger" though, so people should be aware of that before they start dropping them straight in.

 

[dsm-onster]

Glad to see the meth vs. eth debate in this thread is over. . . .

 

[Brianawd]

I have already mentioned methanol being better, but you cannot pump methanol into your car at the gas station, I wish ... But if you want, inject methanol to cool the air and run on E85, more power to you, literally... All I'm saying is that you have over 10 gallons of ethanol in your gas tank, and some of the original tests on evo's and other cars were all done with ethanol injection and pump gas fuel... Which all netted awesome results... Just in case anybody interprets this differently then I intended, methanol is better then ethanol at cooling. I just wanted to mention, the next best alcohol to inject is chilling in your gas tank. Later

My bad I misunderstood what you were trying to say

 

[91-gsx]

My bad I misunderstood what you were trying to say

Don't even worry about it man. When I reread my post I can easily see were I was being confusing, and I apologize for that.

Edit: BTW guys, I just bought a used tdo5h BEP housing. I have not installed my new evo3 16g yet, but I hope this adds a bit more flow to the 16g so that when I put it in, the whole setup is more capable.

 

[RipperXX]

Do you have before numbers to compare?

 

[JayRolla]

What springs and retainers are you going to run. I recently picked up the Brian Crower springs and retainers for these kelford cams, but I decided Im only going to spin her out to 8k, though I was still considering 8500... Also I think these cams will do great on any turbo e316g or bigger, if anything, its probably going to make the turbo drop boost much faster while reaching peak airflow numbers at a lower psi which is good...



My friend Drew is running with no intercooler and pure E100. I dont know how he gets it though, but spool time decreased, and he was flowing more. I dont know all the specifics to his setup, next time I get out there Im going to take pictures as last time it was too dark, but he does have a secondary fuel rail of some sort. The intercooler will start to hold you back some if you have the right fuel to compensate for air charge temp.

Ahh too bad you got those Crowers. A guy here in the my city recommended these springs to me and he is making over 700whp. GSC valve springs $225. GSC Power-Division 4G63T Single Spring upgrade with either Titanium or Chro-Molly Retainers - Modern Automotive Performance

Jack here ran no intercooler on his e85 16g track car for a long time. Then he ran it with an 37r. It worked out great but to run some good boost I think he finally installed one.

 

[91-gsx]

Do you have before numbers to compare?

I do not have any numbers with the stock 7cm housing. I wanted to do a before and after log, but the whole turbo has to come out for me to swap the housings. I just do not want to risk taking off and putting on a new housing with the 16g in the car..

 

[91-gsx]

BTW, anybody in here ever reshape the inlet of the evo3 16g so its a velocity stack? Should help get more power out of it I would imagine...

 

[pneumo]

BTW, anybody in here ever reshape the inlet of the evo3 16g so its a velocity stack? Should help get more power out of it I would imagine...

Yeah, I did that to the 16G on my Laser and to the 14b that was on my Talon. I don't have any before/after numbers, but it should be better than a squared off inlet.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Ahh too bad you got those Crowers. A guy here in the my city recommended these springs to me and he is making over 700whp. GSC valve springs $225. GSC Power-Division 4G63T Single Spring upgrade with either Titanium or Chro-Molly Retainers - Modern Automotive Performance

Jack here ran no intercooler on his e85 16g track car for a long time. Then he ran it with an 37r. It worked out great but to run some good boost I think he finally installed one.

I didnt know about those... Not a bad price either, but oh well.

And velocity stack makes sense. I had gains on the 16g just from doing a CAI in the fender well though, so if you could have an intake pipe designed like a velocity stack that ran in the front bumper i think that would be even better...

 

[tkelly27]

A nice stack off the turbo would solve two problems for me. The tiny inlet that my 3" pipe has to reduce to, and not having to have a 5" filter for a bell mouth on the pipe. Genius!

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Perfect, but with more of a lip so you could clamp a fitting on the outside of the mouth.

Or would that even do anything? Isn't the point of the mouth to draw air from around the mouth? If that was closed off with a pipe would it still be helpful? It sure looks nice though.

 

[91-gsx]

Yeah, I did that to the 16G on my Laser and to the 14b that was on my Talon. I don't have any before/after numbers, but it should be better than a squared off inlet.

Cool, that is what I plan on doing to my evo3 16g. I did it back a few years ago to my 14b inlet and posted pics of it on this forum. Some pics:

 

[Scoped_GST]

ive been following this thread for a bit, and yea no clue why people are even mentioning other turbos thats neither here nor there.

i plan on upgrading if and when the 16g goes out, but now ive been running the ebay III GT at 25+psi for almost two years switching between alcohol and methanol(M10@150psi) and i like the feel a lot. the huge torque hit and 30psi spike is all the fun i need, and im not looking for top end on the street. as are most people running a 16g....

the whole time ive been with my stock trans(99k miles) and a 2100 that has 49,000 less than friendly miles on it. with fwd first and second have to be feathered to maintain acceleration, but with 19* of timing and 11.5afr's third gear is a treat. which actually doesnt make a very street friendly car at all. so i think i might avoid cams and an lsd and just make awd as my next mod.

however im gonna dyno this setup within the next month and post up the results in here. stay strong my 16g brothers.

 

[tkelly27]

Also wondering if anyone experienced gains by altering the compressor to get rid of the J pipe and making it a down firing turbo with a nice cone out to the final IC size. That bolt on connection is stupid, and I'm really considering doing this. Maybe I'll try on my 14b.

 

[matthewdesigns]

I have a 90* elbow welded on my compressor housing, and the housing is clocked so that it exits where my T25 did. I can't speak to any difference in performance vs. the stock configuration as this is all I've ever run. I like the idea of making it a straight shot, though. If you do it, can you log some before and after airflow vs. rpm info to see if it's any different?

 

[tim4g63fast]

You are better off running Methanol than e85 to cool the intake charge.

The main distinction between methanol and ethanol is that methanol has a lower caloric weight (or the amount of energy available to burn when combusted), higher specific heat (takes more heat to burn the mixture) and a high heat of vaporization (when vaporized can cool down intake air temps dramatically). Ethanol is generally the same characteristics and properties as methanol, but does not cool down the intake charge as well

For engines that are fueled solely by methanol, such as race engines, it’s quite common to see ice form on the outside of the intake manifolds during operation. Methanol is able to cool down the intake air temperatures entering the cylinder head so well, that when used as the primary fuel on a forced induction engines, an intercooler is not needed no matter what the boost levels are. Most surprisingly, engines can also be ran without a radiator. This being a true testament to the cooling effects offered by methanol when.

gawd i want to build a straight methanol car haha. I am still unsure where my build is going but I think it is going to run e85 and spray meth..

but some day im building a methanol car damnit...

Has anybody tried running -8 ss hard line under their car.. what a pita...