those who have made 400+ on an EVO III 16g

[jrohner]

I don't see what is costly in any way about 400hp on a 16G. $300 cams? The guys with bigger turbos probably have $550-600 Kelford's or GSC's anyways. I don't see why a bigger turbo on stock cams would be the way to go. My profile has a pretty short list of mods (relative to most), and a few of the things have been added after my 'baseline'-only dyno pulls. Also, I think SMIM's hurt more than they help on many setups, mostly the small turbo ones. At the dyno days I went to, the couple cars that had more hp than me had more mods AND a bigger turbo (most that had a lot less power had MORE mods than me too). This all makes me a believer in the Evo 3 16G with E85; pump premium would be a different story, sure.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm just talking fp2s or regrinds here. No need to reinvent the wheel; 272 style cams have been doing it great for years. And guys with bigger turbos see bigger results with the same cams you run. They also see the same results you have with less boost and pumpgas . That's the only point. That's why Glenn is going to a bigger turbo. He doesn't want the fall off up top because of screeming out a small turbo to reach his goal for a measely 400rpm faster spool.

E-85 is great stuff!!!!

And yeas, so many with big turbos and expensive modifications have net so much less than your dyno results. That's for sure!

 

[ElectronVTEC]

E-85 is great stuff!!!!

And yeas, so many with big turbos and expensive modifications have net so much less than your dyno results. That's for sure!

Amen, brother. I can't wait to see what E85 and my new E16G do to this car once my EWG setup finally gets here I found a 63mm used, rebuilt TB for $100 so I'm hoping that gets me something too. If not, it'll save me the hassle of rebuilding mine at least (bad shaft seals and biss o-ring, whodaguessedit?)

While reaching for 600 whp sounds awesome, I don't think that's really necessary for how many street miles get put on my DSM. Hell, I'm not even shooting for 400 whp on the 16G, I am saving that for the next turbo. Good thread, lots of insight here!

Todd.

 

[byebyev8]

yea 400whp on a stock block with just cams isnt' that hard to achieve with a e316g on e85. Heck look at all the 16g evo guys, just about everone on e85 is around 400whp with just cams. I think most e316g dsm's with cams should also be around 400whp with a decent tune. SO YES you can make 400whp on a e316g just as easy as you can with any other turbo. I'm on a base tune and on that I'm confident I can trap 117+ in my full weight 2g without cams.

I think its the perfect street setup for any awd car, fwd I'd go for a bigger turbo. I'm awd and can spin through the whole first and a some of 2nd.

 

[dsm-onster]

I agree that it's definately doable and can make you happy. It's still hard on the turbo and won't last. But nevertheless. It's all for bragging rights wo who cares

I think my hx35 does better on the street. Saw full bost at about the same time and saw higher flow earlier than the 16g. But regardless, pushing a small turbo to big number is still as easy as ever I suppose . . . Hey I saw that you made some decent numbers with the 16g with a blown headgasket. Good stuff!

 

[Black_Bullet]

My modding model is based around your first paragraph. I know you weren't addressing me but thought this might be of value to the discussion. My philosophy has been to only invest in mods that would benefit a larger turbo as well. Before I move to an HX-35, I plan to maximize what I can get out of the E16G with at least cams, possibly a SMIM. I feel like if I can put up 116+ MPH traps in a full weight AWD on the E16G, then I've learned and tuned enough to "earn" a bigger turbo. That may sound corny but I feel like on my past car I jumped to a larger turbo too soon and consequently ended up frustrated and then I sold it out of said frustration. A good example of this would be Meth injection. I am planning on moving to E85 and feel like Meth is somewhat of a band-aid for hair dryer turbos and shouldn't be necessary for a mostly street driven HX-35 or similar turbo'd DSM. So, I'll save that $300 and put that into cams which might be a bit overkill for a E16G but would really come alive with a bigger turbo. I hope that all makes sense, if anyone wants to shoot holes in my theory, feel free

Todd

Makes perfect sense, actually what I was doing for awhile with my e316g setup- which is modding it a little heavier as if there was a bigger turbo.
External waste gate with stiff spring, 272cams, full tuning, gm maft blow thru & CAI, 400+ lbs of weight reduction, light wt wheels, and now i have even better cams going in with the rebuild ( kelford272s) a bigger fmic, and going to install a smim before putting on my hx40.
Nothing wrong with maximizing the current turbo for bragging rights and curiosities sake before moving bigger.

 

[turboglenn]

Well, honestly i'm sticking with the 57... The n20 is more than enough for instant spool and if i need through the whole gear....nothings past me yet except fr the time my battery cable came off and the vette got me.... i'll just work on the interior next. I donn't have a slip but my last dyno run has been wel improvfed upon (not the one in my sig/avvatar) and last night he car went to 9500 RPM and lived to run another day so i'm happy (and that was no nitrouse!)

My car is a sleeper and i was looking for faster spool but the n2o is plenty when it kicks in im at 31=32 psi inless than a second and at this point it is flowing better than ever on the compressor aone and I thank this board for a lot of ltitle info that helped get it going to this point... i'm still reading this though, so carry on!

Tonight was a let down though, I go to the store for some vodka, and on my way out an integtra goes by revving his engine then a few mionutes later when i "get in front of them" all the sudden three 18 - 20 year olds wanna beat up one 33 year old just out enjoyinh himself...these are the times when i'm glad to have a concealed carry permit and a nice sidearm when we stopped to "talk" all of the sudden the were "just joking" or "playing around"

I offered to fight anyone of them one on one but that didn't fly so out came the tools

 

[pboglio]

^^And this is why I do not race anymore on the street, too many sore losers. O.K., scratch that, I do take on the occasional bike.

 

[turboglenn]

^^ I feel ya i'm too old for "street racing" but i was sick of this car bouncing the rev limiter and just said F it i'll smoke 'em.. and so goes the story/.....


but last night The car hit 9500 RPm!!!!...never thought it would do that but i've been tuning the top RPM range lately and 8300 has been the norm but last night i guess i stayed in it a bit too much cause it hint the 9500 RPM rev limiter but that person was cool with getting walked... Haven't rea''y had problems with punks in a long time but every now and then you do cross paths i guess

 

[Brianawd]

More people need to finish there builds and post up there #s and other people that are not building shit need to just keep there mouth shut. It gets really old with people that have never built or tuned a car trying to tell others why and how they should do stuff. Its also really ### for people to keep posting up dyno #s of other peoples cars.

 

[pboglio]

Yep, 36 years old here & 18 years owning a dsm, bout half my life. Off topic here but I just got a 4-axis CNC mill for my garage so I can prototype/run production parts on the DSM & Subaru. Also looking for a good 220v tig welder with about a max 50 amp input draw.

Going to see how my Kelford 272's work with my little old EVO3 16g when I get off my butt and install them. I'm liking the EVO3 16g on race gas and 28 psi, but on pump not as much. Hoping the cams give me the race gas topend back. DSM at the moment isn't my top priority.

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

Tonight was a let down though, I go to the store for some vodka, and on my way out an integtra goes by revving his engine then a few mionutes later when i "get in front of them" all the sudden three 18 - 20 year olds wanna beat up one 33 year old just out enjoyinh himself...these are the times when i'm glad to have a concealed carry permit and a nice sidearm when we stopped to "talk" all of the sudden the were "just joking" or "playing around"

I offered to fight anyone of them one on one but that didn't fly so out came the tools

That is seriously ridiculous. Losing a meaningless street-race has evolved into a fight? Man. I'm too old for that 'ish myself, but sometimes I just can't help it if I'm egged on too far. I had some G35 go out of his way to follow me for miles just to do a ricer-fly-by as I am cruising the speed limit. It was a single-lane road. Then I got all pissed off. Thankfully the road I was cruising on was a local favorite of mine so I know it like the back of my hand.

It's a forest preserve, so it's nice and curvy and pitch-black. After the guy passed me, I chased him on his ass until the road starts to curve. I won't call it a corner, because it's not, it's just a curve. So like the noob-tard he is, he brakes, so instead of me braking, I just passed him on the outside of the curve going at least double the 45mph limit. Hehe.

I thought that would show him that I ate him enough to leave me alone. Nope. When I got back to cruising speed, he passed me again. Really? Come on. Two ricer-fly-bye's after I passed through a turn at WOT? I'm so impressed.

 

[dsm-onster]

^^^That's why I just don't fall for it. Neither examples were of those willing to accept they lost. Safety goes out the window (as if it were safe in the first place) when arrogance gets a reality check. Arrogance is irrational, why go looking for someone to butt heads with? An arrogant person pecks a fight on the public roads putting others in danger which is irrational. And show his irrationale when losing.

At the strip, I don't care who's beside me. I'm racing myself.

With all the guys posting decent numbers with the td05h turbine wheel, and seeing that it was affordable e-85 that got them there (or race gas), I wish I had tried e-85, since it's affordable, for my 16g before swapping to bigger. Just to have given it a try. It did really well with pump + water/meth injection, but I really wish I had tried the Lucas English no intercooler with e-85 and pure meth injection method.

 

[Dsmj89]

Do any of you guys happen to know where i can find e85 in florida ?
I see chevy's new line up of cars, for example the tahoe, has the flex fuel badge on the back with e85 ethanol on the bottom in small letters, and wondered if they go to a special gas station with e85 only, or do these guys just put regular gas ?

 

[whitedawg]

Do any of you guys happen to know where i can find e85 in florida ?
I see chevy's new line up of cars, for example the tahoe, has the flex fuel badge on the back with e85 ethanol on the bottom in small letters, and wondered if they go to a special gas station with e85 only, or do these guys just put regular gas ?

Here's a list, not too many open to the public either. National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition (NEVC) and E85

 

[matthewdesigns]

Going to see how my Kelford 272's work with my little old EVO3 16g when I get off my butt and install them.

Please do comment either here or start a new thread about your experience with these cams. They are at the top of my list and I've not seen much feedback about them. The AMS Evo cam test is what convinced me that I ought to try them, but I have yet to see any hard DSM results. I figure it will be similar though. I know Paul Volk is using them with his compound setup, but I have not seen him comment on them directly.

 

[Dsmj89]

Here's a list, not too many open to the public either. National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition (NEVC) and E85

Thanks for that info !
I also had another question, i'm trying to make the best of my 16g. What would be better to use of the 2, 110 octane or e85 ?

 

[91-gsx]

Anybody running E85 or E90 should not have to run an intercooler or a meth injection kit, its like your already running on alcohol. When we want to run more boost/timing with our meth injection kits, we add more meth. When you guys want to run more boost or more timing in any area of the where knock exists, just make it a bit richer, inject more alcohol. Its like adding more alcohol/meth.. You can take the intercooler off, and it might not even knock on E85, I would not be surprised. You automatically gained flow from just that removal and the shorter routing.. Any turbo should hold boost better closer to redline too. If it knocks a little when the turbo starts to kick in, just add a bit more fuel in that area, dare I say a bit more timing as well to take full advantage of your new found coolness.. Now the turbo is spooling to wastegate pressure, any signs of knock, add more alcohol.. Full boost.. Any knock.. Add a bit more alcohol.. You all get the idea. Then go back and add timing.. This should work.. You might end up only adding 10-25% more E85 in some areas of the RPM curve.. People add way more then that in some Methanol setups I have seen. Just an idea. Later.

 

[Brianawd]

Anybody running E85 or E90 should not have to run an intercooler or a meth injection kit, its like your already running on alcohol. When we want to run more boost/timing with our meth injection kits, we add more meth. When you guys want to run more boost or more timing in any area of the where knock exists, just make it a bit richer, inject more alcohol. Its like adding more alcohol/meth.. You can take the intercooler off, and it might not even knock on E85, I would not be surprised. You automatically gained flow from just that removal and the shorter routing.. Any turbo should hold boost better closer to redline too. If it knocks a little when the turbo starts to kick in, just add a bit more fuel in that area, dare I say a bit more timing as well to take full advantage of your new found coolness.. Now the turbo is spooling to wastegate pressure, any signs of knock, add more alcohol.. Full boost.. Any knock.. Add a bit more alcohol.. You all get the idea. Then go back and add timing.. This should work.. You might end up only adding 10-25% more E85 in some areas of the RPM curve.. People add way more then that in some Methanol setups I have seen. Just an idea. Later.

E85 is great, but not that great. Even my friends 1g auto(Lucas English) is running meth with the e85 because there is not enough cooling in just the e85.

 

[dsm-onster]

^^^ E-85. Wearing out little turbos for all their worth since the prohibition.

I'm sure Lucas english likes the additional aircharge cooling that meth provides. It puts the alcohol in the air long enough to actually take the heat out.

 

[pboglio]

Please do comment either here or start a new thread about your experience with these cams. They are at the top of my list and I've not seen much feedback about them. The AMS Evo cam test is what convinced me that I ought to try them, but I have yet to see any hard DSM results. I figure it will be similar though. I know Paul Volk is using them with his compound setup, but I have not seen him comment on them directly.

Yep, I'll report my results as soon as the springs and cams go in. I based my purchase on Curt Brown's results upgrading to the FP4Rs, that's what got me "believing" the cams could be a substantial boost even on the EVO3 16g. I then just used AMS's cam shootout to then compare what the FP4R's were like vs. the Kelford's, which was a valid leap to make. I went for the highest average torque/h.p. in the range I race the car.

That's kind of how I went about the decision making process. The problem is the peak gains are gonna be tricky to extrapolate since that EVO was running a much freer flowing turbine section, ported head, intake MIVEC, and compressor that was nowhere near maxxed out. I'm trying to make the highest h.p. with a reasonable amount of boost that pump gas can handle, quality vs. quantity scenario.

 

[Brianawd]

I'm sure Lucas english likes the additional aircharge cooling that meth provides. It puts the alcohol in the air long enough to actually take the heat out.

That would be why he is using meth. He need all the help because of not having the interfooler.

 

[91-gsx]

Yes the Methanol has plenty to offer if it had a longer time to draw heat out of the air, but if you injected E85 closer to the turbo and had no intercooler, I think that might work well.. But, as far as I know, you cannot run E85 through most water/meth injection kits anyway..

 

[matthewdesigns]

Yep, I'll report my results as soon as the springs and cams go in.

Great, thanks. Same thoughts here on the Evo setup, but they were so much better than anything else in that test that even on my otherwise stock head I figure I'm going to make substantially more power.

 

[matthewdesigns]

Anybody running E85 or E90 should not have to run an intercooler or a meth injection kit, its like your already running on alcohol.....

A friend of mine here has been running his car like this for a while, only using a hotpipe, first on an Evo316g and now on a GT3x (I don't remember the exact model). It's nasty, spools faster than my E3 does, and he makes a lot of power with it. BUT, he's decided to toss on a fmic as it's just going to help that much more.

I've actually run as lean as 16.x:1 on e85 and registered no knock, so you have to watch afr's to make sure you don't royally screw yourself on that fuel. My friend actually melted a spark plug tip even at 'normal' afr's of high 11's:1 running that hotpipe setup.