those who have made 400+ on an EVO III 16g

[turboglenn]

Why are you the same people that have nothing in your car's profile? I mean you make it look like you put an evo III on a stock eclipse and just turned the boost up to make 400 horses ( i won't call anyone out, but i've ran into a few of you now in my research) I would love to be able to do the same, but i just don't see how it's really all that feasible

Anyway, I'm thinking about going smaller for a broader powerband (was hoping for a 20g i never got the money together for) But now i have the chance to get an EVO III for nothing basically (trade for labor on welding) and I won't settle for anything less than my 400 horse goal, so anyone want to share any tips or how they got their baby blower to produce so nicely or will this just remain CB voo-doo, or is it really just dyno tricks??? My curretn 57 trim has made slightly above the 400 mark (need to scan the sheets when i get them on my next trip down there) but I just can't see a 16g doing the same without it being for one peaky second and then falling off to nothing'ness again, but that's just me

I've been tuning for a long time and have never in person seen anywhere over 360 horses on one and so may of you guys list these HP figures on "stock intake" stock block" and so on but i know that i can't take the combo listed in your profiles, bolt a 16g on top and get 400 horses by turning the boost up to 30 and letting it drop by redline...at least give me a hint as to what to work on (besides airflow...derr )

Anyway, not trying to sound dick'ish.. but seriously if you've got that kinda skills with 4 parts listed in your profile then there's something you're not telling the rest of us..... I'm starting to guess N2o

now c'mon lets hear it!!!!!!!!

 

[bastard dsm]

no tricks.......its really not hard to do it if you have all the right parts. as for the dyno, the gear you do your pull in or if your car spins effects the dyno reading. i made my 445hp pull on the 18g in 4th gear, most people on here or anywhere dyno in 3rd? well my car makes more power in 4th then 3rd so i always dyno in 4th. the other thing is i put coke or whatever i have laying around on the rollers to give the car more traction on the dyno and i have seen this give the car more hp on the dyno....if fwd. a lot of things can hurt your hp or help it, i have played on the dyno testing tons of things to get my car to make that extra power. all in all it doesnt take much but to get it right does, i have made 300hp on a 14b at 15psi, 375hp on a small 16g at 20psi, 400hp on the 18g at 20-22psi and 445hp
at 28-25psi.

 

[turboglenn]

From knowing you're accomplishments from reading on this board i was hoping you'd chime in. As for "have the right parts" that's what i'm trying to figure out. No one that's doing it lists what parts they are running...

here's a list of one guys mods making over 400 on a 16g... well i have all this and more but that don't net me 400 horses... care to enlighten some of us on some of the key components? Or are you just tuning on the ragged edge like 12.5:1 with 27* timing through out the entire curve?

414.8 whp, 459.7 lb-ft/torque
Dyno Type: DynoJet
Link to Dynosheet
Location: Modern Automotive, Plymouth, MN
Type of Fuel: E85
Turbo Used: Big 16G
Boost Level: 22
Nitrous? No Nitrous


Bolt-on Modifications
Evo3-16G, RC750 injectors, 3" Exhaust, FMIC
Engine Management
EPROM ECU tuned (by me) with TunerProRT and an Ostrich emulator, LC1 wideband.
Engine Internals
BC 272 cams
Drivetrain Modifications
Fidanza ceramic 6-puck clutch & Aluminum flywheel.

 

[bastard dsm]

he is leaving tons of things out , well every thing listed in my pro is exactly what i had when i made those dyno pulls. well here is an example, i was making 425hp and i was trying to make some more power.....we had 3in velocity stacks laying around so i put it on. car made 43*somthing hp..i was like wow. the car held boost longer and made an extra lb or 2, so i tried somthing elts. my car had an s-type intake pipe (2 90's), so i made another intake pipe using 2 45's.......car made 10more hp so that got me to 440+hp. also the cams made like 20hp when i retarded them 6deg.

 

[pboglio]

What's so hard about making 400 whp with an EVOIII 16g? When you got the balls to crank the boost knob up to around 28 psi, then your going to make the power. I don't know of any secret to it other than: big boost, high octane fuel, somewhat leaner a/f, a good amount of timing, and a reasonable amount of "well selected" supporting mods. My favorite mods are the FP race manifold, EVOIII intake manifold, & lightened flywheel.

Those mods open up the topend huge. I make no "official" claim to any w.h.p. since my car has never seen a dyno. For what its worth either way, my DSMLink reads 398 w.h.p. in 3rd gear. That was with maybe 2 weeks worth of tuning on my EVOIII 16g.

 

[matthewdesigns]

Glenn, are you asking for wheel or crank hp? I'd assume wheel, but just wanted to check.

 

[turboglenn]

Yea, i was asking for wheel horses. AS for just ahving the balls to crank up the boost, i've been running anywhere between 25 and 31 psi on a daily basis since my switch to E85, and i am at over 400 now (the unofficial mark was 431/396 but i don't have the sheets to prove it so that's why my profile is still at 332 / 312. I don't know the exact RPM's because the dyno was reading MPH instead of RPM (dyno owner said it was quicker that way when they do free dyno days)

But anyway, If i could manage the same top end pull from an EVO III I'd be all over it. Pretty much the only stock things on my car are the head casting (got cams and springs), block casting, OEM crank, and the 1g intake manifold and TB. Everything else is aftermarket and listed in my profile. Now if i could put an EIII 16g opn it and make the same type of power with a broader powerband that would be my ideal street setup.

Bastard Dsm.... What type of velocity stack are you talking about... the one on the inlet of the turbo? I am going to be building more intercooler piping for my car this summer from aluminum (right now i've just got aluminized exhaust because it was supposed to only last till this year when i went aluminum again)

I guess it's the list of supporting mods that make me wonder what has to be coupled with a 16g to make those3 kinds of numbers

As for an EVO III intake manifold... are those fairly common to find or is that a PITA? I ask because although i love DSM's my work keeps me researching all kinds of particular engines and cars, really not leaving me to explore what's available in one market too much, thus leaving me blind to some of the less used parts that are the little tricks here and there poeple use.

 

[JusMX141]

What about putting that Evo III 16G into a Hahn-style 10cm2 T3-flanged turbine housing, Glenn? The only thing missing at that point would be the 4 lb/min of peak airflow that the 20G wheel could give you over the 16G wheel- the turbine housing would flow as much as you could throw at it....AND you'd be able to keep your current manifold / wastegate configuration.

 

[dsm-onster]

Bastard Dsm.... What type of velocity stack are you talking about... the one on the inlet of the turbo?

I'm curious about that too. I've seen a few and heard of others net some significant gains with a velocity stack at the inlet of a compressor pushed to it's limit. 43whp, that's some great results.

 

[pboglio]

EVOIII intake manifolds are always floating around on the trader or ebay. Took me about 4 weeks of constant searching to locate one. Well worth it though.

I won't name which company, but I've seen a noticeable difference in compressor j-pipe performance. I went thru an extensive pressure loss spreadsheet calculation of one j-pipe that I had versus another brand and was shocked how bad it was. It looked restrictive, spread sheet showed it would be restrictive, and datalogging proved it. This is an area most guys would go, "It's under pressure, how restrictive could it be?". Every little bit helps. Oddly enough, I just don't see a measurable difference running speed density vs. a stock 2g Maf in terms of topend. I've tried all sorts of intake pipes and I personally like the stock 2g intake pipe with a 2.25" elbow combination. There is some intake tuning going on and this combo has the best mix of part throttle response and topend power. Go figure, YMMV.

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

If you dont have cams, a smim, a real fmic, and a lot of boost then most people won't see nothing over 350whp on a 16g. I see it almost impossible for a 16g to make more than 400whp without some way of being able to make the motor breath better. In comparison, most evo's that dyno couple hairs over 400whp with 16g's all have hard pipes, cams, meth and badasss tune(and of course other minimal bolt-on's). So why do people magically make 400whp+ with stock intake and cams....BECAUSE THEY LIE. Its the internet, you can say whatever you want to, and still have no proof(with the exceptions of a couple people). Me, I have big plans for my 16g(FP SLEEPER), and even though this turbo is different than the e316g, they use the same frame. I will still have a hard time hitting 400whp, but i do want 450whp+, and until i get the chance to turn the boost up and have some other mods(ie, smim, better cams, better tuning device) then i will just keep dreaming of when i can REALLY say i made XXXwhp on a 16g based turbo.

 

[need2boostpsi]

What about putting that Evo III 16G into a Hahn-style 10cm2 T3-flanged turbine housing, Glenn? The only thing missing at that point would be the 4 lb/min of peak airflow that the 20G wheel could give you over the 16G wheel- the turbine housing would flow as much as you could throw at it....AND you'd be able to keep your current manifold / wastegate configuration.

wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the E316G, people like the E316G because it spools quick and is very torquey. a larger turbine housing will net more top end and more airflow per PSI but at the cost of spool and torque. The E316G with the 8^cm FP dsm housing would be promising as it would still flow well and spool wouldn't be effected as much as the 10^cm.


Also isnt the E316G compressor rated for 42Lbs/min, that with all supporting mods and a badass tune would be good for 440WHP?

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

^ 38lbs/min.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

If you dont have cams, a smim, a real fmic, and a lot of boost then most people won't see nothing over 350whp on a 16g. I see it almost impossible for a 16g to make more than 400whp without some way of being able to make the motor breath better. In comparison, most evo's that dyno couple hairs over 400whp with 16g's all have hard pipes, cams, meth and badasss tune(and of course other minimal bolt-on's). So why do people magically make 400whp+ with stock intake and cams....BECAUSE THEY LIE. Its the internet, you can say whatever you want to, and still have no proof(with the exceptions of a couple people). Me, I have big plans for my 16g(FP SLEEPER), and even though this turbo is different than the e316g, they use the same frame. I will still have a hard time hitting 400whp, but i do want 450whp+, and until i get the chance to turn the boost up and have some other mods(ie, smim, better cams, better tuning device) then i will just keep dreaming of when i can REALLY say i made XXXwhp on a 16g based turbo.

We have a winner! I wish I could give you infinite rep for this post!

 

[fast4g63t]

Hey glenn seems like your on the right track for 400hp but did you say you recently went to e85 fuel.If so what size injectors are you running because i thought i saw you only had 750's thats way too small to take advantage of the e85.Im not positive what the minimum is for your turbo but 850 and up injectors seem to be more feasible.

 

[turboglenn]

What about putting that Evo III 16G into a Hahn-style 10cm2 T3-flanged turbine housing, Glenn? The only thing missing at that point would be the 4 lb/min of peak airflow that the 20G wheel could give you over the 16G wheel- the turbine housing would flow as much as you could throw at it....AND you'd be able to keep your current manifold / wastegate configuration.

Well, honestly i'm getting tthis for free and wont' mess with it too much and might just sell it to help get that 20g from you (what i really want deep down inside )

Things are picking up so well i was going to tell you i would have the loot soon but everytime i do something happens, so if you've still got it i'm keeping quiet until i do have the money in hand. PM me and let me know..otherwise i could get a regular 20g but i want that t3 flange, I'm 150 there out of the total, so i'll have it soon enough i'm sure, then i'm going to need to pay for express shipping as i'm anxious as hell for trying something new

If you dont have cams, a smim, a real fmic, and a lot of boost then most people won't see nothing over 350whp on a 16g. I see it almost impossible for a 16g to make more than 400whp without some way of being able to make the motor breath better. In comparison, most evo's that dyno couple hairs over 400whp with 16g's all have hard pipes, cams, meth and badasss tune(and of course other minimal bolt-on's). So why do people magically make 400whp+ with stock intake and cams....BECAUSE THEY LIE. Its the internet, you can say whatever you want to, and still have no proof(with the exceptions of a couple people). Me, I have big plans for my 16g(FP SLEEPER), and even though this turbo is different than the e316g, they use the same frame. I will still have a hard time hitting 400whp, but i do want 450whp+, and until i get the chance to turn the boost up and have some other mods(ie, smim, better cams, better tuning device) then i will just keep dreaming of when i can REALLY say i made XXXwhp on a 16g based turbo.

I have everything you mentioned except the SMIM, i've got a good FMIC, good piping, 364/373's (well just look in my profile, i've got lots of stuff) And as i said i made 431 on this beat 57 trim (compressor is a bit haggered), but i would love to do it a few hundred to a thousand RPM sooner, hence why i'm asking about 16g's and people making 400 horses.. I idealy want a 20g and am shooting to break the 500HP mark wether i have to use the laughing gas or not to get tehre i don't care, but i'm looking for the broadest powerband that breaks 400 horses that i can get. That's why i'm still exploring options, but i honestly don't want to go back to a 2g manifold to run the 16g and that's the main reason i'm still saving for the 20g w/ t3 flanged hot side so i can just slap it on, make a down pipe and go tune!

I agree with your thoughts of people not telling the entire truth about some of these ourageous numbers. ANd i really question it when CB made near 500 horses, but as soon as it went ot the track that turbo came back off and we never saw much results of the 16g's performance on the road... dyno numbers are one thing but i want to see trap speeds along with them

 

[turboglenn]

Hey glenn seems like your on the right track for 400hp but did you say you recently went to e85 fuel.If so what size injectors are you running because i thought i saw you only had 750's thats way too small to take advantage of the e85.Im not positive what the minimum is for your turbo but 850 and up injectors seem to be more feasible.

I'm running 1000cc injectors now with dual walbro 255 HP's in tank parrallel with dual -6 feeds that go into a "Y" pipe rightt out of the tank and run a -6 all the way to the fuel lab filer then more -6 to the rail, where i have a -6 return to the AFPR then using the old OEM feed line as the new return line.. it's working out very well and i've been able to max out my turbo with fuel to spare at this point which makes me very happy because i was fighting starvation for a long time after going to E85 I just had to get some money together for my own toys and now it's all good to go!

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

Well, honestly i'm getting tthis for free and wont' mess with it too much and might just sell it to help get that 20g from you (what i really want deep down inside )

Things are picking up so well i was going to tell you i would have the loot soon but everytime i do something happens, so if you've still got it i'm keeping quiet until i do have the money in hand. PM me and let me know..otherwise i could get a regular 20g but i want that t3 flange, I'm 150 there out of the total, so i'll have it soon enough i'm sure, then i'm going to need to pay for express shipping as i'm anxious as hell for trying something new




I have everything you mentioned except the SMIM, i've got a good FMIC, good piping, 364/373's (well just look in my profile, i've got lots of stuff) And as i said i made 431 on this beat 57 trim (compressor is a bit haggered), but i would love to do it a few hundred to a thousand RPM sooner, hence why i'm asking about 16g's and people making 400 horses.. I idealy want a 20g and am shooting to break the 500HP mark wether i have to use the laughing gas or not to get tehre i don't care, but i'm looking for the broadest powerband that breaks 400 horses that i can get. That's why i'm still exploring options, but i honestly don't want to go back to a 2g manifold to run the 16g and that's the main reason i'm still saving for the 20g w/ t3 flanged hot side so i can just slap it on, make a down pipe and go tune!

I agree with your thoughts of people not telling the entire truth about some of these ourageous numbers. ANd i really question it when CB made near 500 horses, but as soon as it went ot the track that turbo came back off and we never saw much results of the 16g's performance on the road... dyno numbers are one thing but i want to see trap speeds along with them

Well we should consider all the different dynos and also, like when were at the track, there are also different environments that make the cars act different when on the dyno. I at first also questioned CB, and his "accomplishments", and now thanks to him i am on the path to see if it is possible to do what he did(which i have big dreams for). As for people making power, why is it that there is people making on average making 420whp with 35r cars(there are the occasional high hp cars)? It kinda makes you think that some people are lying, and also when you see that exact same car run low elevens it also tells you something. But i just think there are to many variables that play into cars being dynoed. What im saying is that i bet if two people that had the same setup but one dynoed higher, and then they raced, then NEITHER should be faster than the other. I am also a fan of 1/4/traps. I bet that if everyone on this site were to all get dynoed at the same place, all at the same time, on the SAME dyno many people would leave heartbroken. As for my opinion on 400whp 16g's, then you had better have some magical way to make that 16g come alive(im pretty sure you could get real close to 400 with your mods). As a suggestion for turbos why not look into a DBB 50-trim? I mean its similiar to a 20g, and plus everyone says a 20g spools slow when compared to a 50-trim, i could also tell you about holset but im pretty sure you already know about a lot of them.

 

[JayRolla]

Like stated above the magical way of making 400whp on a 16g is dyno on a dynojet. Im sure I would hit over 360whp on a dynojet comparing to other cars that I have been in that have dynoed that or more on a dynojet. Thats with no cams or Intake mani. The goal is holding boost too redline, that way you have some boost up high where the power is actually made.

I have yet to see a 400+whp 16g on something other than a dynojet.

 

[T9S1i]

Like stated above the magical way of making 400whp on a 16g is dyno on a dynojet. Im sure I would hit over 360whp on a dynojet comparing to other cars that I have been in that have dynoed that or more on a dynojet. Thats with no cams or Intake mani. The goal is holding boost too redline, that way you have some boost up high where the power is actually made.

I have yet to see a 400+whp 16g on something other than a dynojet.

thats the truth right there.

The secret is the dyno queen dyno... the dynojet!!!


I honestly dont understand why so many people get bent out of shape about dyno numbers. Why dont they set a certain 0-60 or 70-90 or trap speed or 1/4 mile time goal?
A dyno is a tuning tool that tells you if a certain change made makes more or less power than before.

Our local mustang dyno is a true "heartbreaker" dyno when it comes to people that really car about the # they put out. I could care less if i make 430 hp on our mustang dyno, but 500 on a dyno jet. Either way im going to crack a very high 10 second slip at the 1/4 mile!

I like our local tuner and dyno because he knows exactly what you should run with the #'s you put down. You can give him any part of the equation... hey i just ran a 12.8 on a 16g flowing 36 lb/min... he'll answer with well you are probably making 270 whp on our dyno. Or hey i want to run a low 11 second slip, he'll say lets shoot for 400hp. Or the magic # to have power potential for a 10 second slip is pretty much anything over 430.

If dyno number's are your goal and your bragging point, then go dyno at a dynojet all the time. If you want a certain performance level from your car, and dont worry about dyno numbers, get to a mustang dyno with a tuner that knows his setup and the real world results that have come from their dyno, and you will leave happy.


OP, good luck with your goal, more power to you if you can crack 400whp with a 16g, im sure you will let us all know the "secrets" needed to get there because you contribute to this forum on the daily basis. In no way am i trying to hate on your goal or anything, just giving my point of view on the whole thing.

My advice for a t3 platform that will give a very wide powerband... BW s256 with a t3 .70 housing. Again... good luck!

 

[turboglenn]

Well, at this point that turbo is gone, the guy thought i didn't want to trade and sold it to get cash to pay me.. OH well, now i'm back to looking at a 20g from jusmx and seeing if that will break 400 (which it damn well should )

thanks for the input everyone!

JEFFREYCASTGSX.... I dont' want the troubles of a DBB CHRA so i'd rather stick it out on a journal bearing. I have a 57 trim at the moment and a 50 is just too damn close to the same thing IMO... I REALLY wanted an hx35, wh1c h1c anything in that family, but it seemed as if i was going to have to give up the OEM fans (at elast one of them ) to do it and that's a mistake i wont'make again in the nebraska heat while running the AC the OEM main fan is the only thing that's kept my car cool and i've spent a ton of money on slim-line, SPALS and everything else to no avail, so the retention of the OEM main fan is a must. The backup (small) fan can go, but not that big one, it keeps me COOOOOOOLLLLLLLLL

 

[pboglio]

What is magical about 400 w.h.p. on an EVOIII 16g? It's been done over and over again, documented on this very website, a bill of material with everything but prices was listed. Now people are talking about magical dyno's, come on already. Even the Curt Brown "499 w.h.p." recipe was laid out like a damned cook book for everyone to replicate. What secrets?

 

[bastard dsm]

i was using the stack on the intake pipe, the most hp gain i have seen is 50hp. i was tuning a boosted gsr and the car was making 500hp, i put on the velocity stack and at the same boost level it made 50 more hp. yea my car made 445hp on a dynojet but also ran the 1/8 at 95mph in a 3300lbs+ galant, and trapped 119mph with the car cutting out before i got to the traps. it could have been 120-121mph if the car didnt cut out.

 

[SpeedAddict62]

i was using the stack on the intake pipe, the most hp gain i have seen is 50hp. i was tuning a boosted gsr and the car was making 500hp, i put on the velocity stack and at the same boost level it made 50 more hp. yea my car made 445hp on a dynojet but also ran the 1/8 at 95mph in a 3300lbs+ galant, and trapped 119mph with the car cutting out before i got to the traps. it could have been 120-121mph if the car didnt cut out.

Did you have any kind of filter set up? Or did you just run some kind of mesh?

 

[punishment]

thats the truth right there.

The secret is the dyno queen dyno... the dynojet!!!


I honestly dont understand why so many people get bent out of shape about dyno numbers. Why dont they set a certain 0-60 or 70-90 or trap speed or 1/4 mile time goal?
A dyno is a tuning tool that tells you if a certain change made makes more or less power than before.

Our local mustang dyno is a true "heartbreaker" dyno when it comes to people that really car about the # they put out. I could care less if i make 430 hp on our mustang dyno, but 500 on a dyno jet. Either way im going to crack a very high 10 second slip at the 1/4 mile!

I like our local tuner and dyno because he knows exactly what you should run with the #'s you put down. You can give him any part of the equation... hey i just ran a 12.8 on a 16g flowing 36 lb/min... he'll answer with well you are probably making 270 whp on our dyno. Or hey i want to run a low 11 second slip, he'll say lets shoot for 400hp. Or the magic # to have power potential for a 10 second slip is pretty much anything over 430.

If dyno number's are your goal and your bragging point, then go dyno at a dynojet all the time. If you want a certain performance level from your car, and dont worry about dyno numbers, get to a mustang dyno with a tuner that knows his setup and the real world results that have come from their dyno, and you will leave happy.


OP, good luck with your goal, more power to you if you can crack 400whp with a 16g, im sure you will let us all know the "secrets" needed to get there because you contribute to this forum on the daily basis. In no way am i trying to hate on your goal or anything, just giving my point of view on the whole thing.

My advice for a t3 platform that will give a very wide powerband... BW s256 with a t3 .70 housing. Again... good luck!

Excellent post regarding dyno #'s (especially about dynojet #'s), we all love to see our car put down as much hp as possible but at the end of the day it's just a tuning tool. There is such a wide variance from dyno to dyno that we really don't pay much attention to how high the actual # being put down anymore is, just the improvement that has been made.

At the end of the day the track is your best indicator of the power your car is making.