those who have made 400+ on an EVO III 16g

[pboglio]

Thats a good log, lots of boost, good timing and no knock. Looks like dsmlink estimates about 20 more hp than my car and thats in second gear. Thats moving for a 16g. Some good airflow.

Yeah, it moves pretty good. Based on comparing my 3rd gear DSMlink logs to other cars which logged while running their 1/4 mile, its outrunning 118-121 mph cars actually. I'd expect with the Kelford 272 cams installed to put me around +122 mph, full weight of course. With my shorter EVO 3rd and 4th gears, I might actually have to wind out the motor past 7500 rpms to achieve it, but I'm not building for the 1/4 mile.

I'll have to pm you about your E85 setup, I'm getting hammered on fuel costs. I'd like to run +30 psi in the midrange. I'm a pretty huge fan of DSMlink, plus the file sharing capability is awesome for comparing notes.

 

[toofast82]

Nice log, thats what I like to see from a 16g
Looks like you got the old Denso 150lph running to the max

 

[pboglio]

I am still trying to figure out some of your guys little tricks. The most we have got out of my buddies 18g on a full weight 2g (3300lbs) was 11.9 at 116mph. I am trying to figure out how to make it go 120+ but we are running out of ideas. Velocity stack, cooler intake air, zero boost leaks, maybe a better intercooler (ets street core), and an external dump are the only things that I can think of that would really help. I keep praying that something is just going to click and the car will just take off

On my setup, the switch to EVOIII intake manifold and FP exhaust manifold was worth about 40 h.p. midrange h.p., more like +50 h.p. near 7000 rpms. Probably the biggest gains I've picked up in a while. I picked up another 22 h.p. by shimming the wastegate actuator (small gain), switching to a 3" turbo intake pipe, replacing my restrictive compressor j-pipe, & heat shielding my FP exhaust manifold. The last mod is important, the ambient heat of the manifold can sap every h.p. the manifold would normally create. Took me a while to figure this out. Switching to speed density I used to see gains around 20 h.p., but the motor also leans out tremendously at the same time so its hard to filter out what caused the gains. I'm of the minority that believes the 2g MAF is not a measurable restriction even at +400 h.p., hence I only run speed density on occasion, too many bad things can happen to you if the the pressure transducer flakes out.

 

[wishihadatalon]

On my setup, the switch to EVOIII intake manifold and FP exhaust manifold was worth about 40 h.p. midrange h.p., more like +50 h.p. near 7000 rpms. Probably the biggest gains I've picked up in a while. I picked up another 22 h.p. by shimming the wastegate actuator (small gain), switching to a 3" turbo intake pipe, replacing my restrictive compressor j-pipe, & heat shielding my FP exhaust manifold. The last mod is important, the ambient heat of the manifold can sap every h.p. the manifold would normally create. Took me a while to figure this out. Switching to speed density I used to see gains around 20 h.p., but the motor also leans out tremendously at the same time so its hard to filter out what caused the gains. I'm of the minority that believes the 2g MAF is not a measurable restriction even at +400 h.p., hence I only run speed density on occasion, too many bad things can happen to you if the the pressure transducer flakes out.

The car has an evo 3 intake manifold (had it for over a year now), hks 272 cams, ported tb elbow, 1g tb, ets street fmic kit, 18g with a bored out compressor inlet, ported turbine housing, ported 2g manifold (I think that my port job might be an issue), 3" intake pipe, megasquirt ems, e85 fuel mods, and some other little stuff. I assume that the ets j-pipe does great but I could be wrong. I think that directing air from the front bumper to the filter will help a little. We won't be cutting the car so I will have to find a good way to duct it.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

If you dont have cams, a smim, a real fmic, and a lot of boost then most people won't see nothing over 350whp on a 16g. I see it almost impossible for a 16g to make more than 400whp without some way of being able to make the motor breath better. In comparison, most evo's that dyno couple hairs over 400whp with 16g's all have hard pipes, cams, meth and badasss tune(and of course other minimal bolt-on's). So why do people magically make 400whp+ with stock intake and cams....BECAUSE THEY LIE. Its the internet, you can say whatever you want to, and still have no proof(with the exceptions of a couple people). Me, I have big plans for my 16g(FP SLEEPER), and even though this turbo is different than the e316g, they use the same frame. I will still have a hard time hitting 400whp, but i do want 450whp+, and until i get the chance to turn the boost up and have some other mods(ie, smim, better cams, better tuning device) then i will just keep dreaming of when i can REALLY say i made XXXwhp on a 16g based turbo.

That's not necessarily true. There is a guy on here running a 14b with stock cams and he just broke into the 11's (with slicks). For that kind of time he has to be at least around 400 AWHP.

 

[toofast82]

That's not necessarily true. There is a guy on here running a 14b with stock cams and he just broke into the 11's (with slicks). For that kind of time he has to be at least around 400 AWHP.

I'm assuming you're talking about Phil Beers car. It weighs 2600lbs which is decently lighter than any full street dsm. There are guys in the 1/4 and dyno section that have run high 11's on far less than 400whp.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/335963-last-better-side-12-0-14b-powered-talon.html

I think its pretty difficult to get 350whp on stock cams with a 16g, unless you have other tricks up your sleeve(high compression, port work,etc) I'm sure it can be done on a bone stock motor, but it would have to be tuned pretty damn well and quite a bit of boost

 

[JayRolla]

On my setup, the switch to EVOIII intake manifold and FP exhaust manifold was worth about 40 h.p. midrange h.p., more like +50 h.p. near 7000 rpms. Probably the biggest gains I've picked up in a while. I picked up another 22 h.p. by shimming the wastegate actuator (small gain), switching to a 3" turbo intake pipe, replacing my restrictive compressor j-pipe, & heat shielding my FP exhaust manifold. The last mod is important, the ambient heat of the manifold can sap every h.p. the manifold would normally create. Took me a while to figure this out. Switching to speed density I used to see gains around 20 h.p., but the motor also leans out tremendously at the same time so its hard to filter out what caused the gains. I'm of the minority that believes the 2g MAF is not a measurable restriction even at +400 h.p., hence I only run speed density on occasion, too many bad things can happen to you if the the pressure transducer flakes out.

So what fuel are you using. If not e85 how do you get away with such high boost levels? Or did I miss something.

 

[pboglio]

So what fuel are you using. If not e85 how do you get away with such high boost levels? Or did I miss something.

Pump gas/30% xylene/2 bottles octane booster. Don't ask me how, but it works, and the octane booster is critical to keep it from knocking.

 

[Mr Peepers]

That's not necessarily true. There is a guy on here running a 14b with stock cams and he just broke into the 11's (with slicks). For that kind of time he has to be at least around 400 AWHP.

With power and weight comes trap speed; trap speed will then tell you what ET you can run with traction.

With his trap speed of 116 and change and assuming 2600lbs is with driver, that's about 320whp. About what a maxed out 14b will do with high octane fuel.

I do agree with your point though that you don't need quite as much as most people think such as a smim, cams, fmic etc, although it does help. Fuel plays a very large part. I remember the 300whp 16g thread back a year or two ago when e85 wasn't ran so commonly; there actually weren't as many 16g's hitting 300whp as expected.

 

[Gamble97]

If you dont have cams, a smim, a real fmic, and a lot of boost then most people won't see nothing over 350whp on a 16g.QUOTE]

My opinion you don't need a SMIM. Lots of people are doing fast times and good numbers on the evo3 manifold and even the stock manifold.
Mr Peepers, don't you have a 16g and went 11.1? Strictly modified went 10.9 on a 16g on a stock intake manifold.
I think a stock intake ported would benefit you more than a smim on a small turbo.

Here is what I think people are doing to obtain their 400whp. Weather it's fwd or awd.
Dynojet
e85 or race gas
Tons of timing since high octane fuel loves you.
30psi, with a shim on the wastegate
dsmlink or aem since an afc won't let you have direct control on timing.
weight reduction for faster ETs
Mild cam like a hks264 or 272 and not the BS BC cams.
Something better than a 2g manifold, like an evo3 or fp. And a good flowing exhaust.

I don't think there is any big secret. It's mostly the fuel, If your trying to do that on pump gas well then good luck.
I also don't see why you would step down from a 57trim to a 16g. But that is me, I like big turbos, I didn't care for the 16g when I had it on my car.

 

[JayRolla]

If you dont have cams, a smim, a real fmic, and a lot of boost then most people won't see nothing over 350whp on a 16g.QUOTE]

My opinion you don't need a SMIM. Lots of people are doing fast times and good numbers on the evo3 manifold and even the stock manifold.
Mr Peepers, don't you have a 16g and went 11.1? Strictly modified went 10.9 on a 16g on a stock intake manifold.
I think a stock intake ported would benefit you more than a smim on a small turbo.

Here is what I think people are doing to obtain their 400whp. Weather it's fwd or awd.
Dynojet
e85 or race gas
Tons of timing since high octane fuel loves you.
30psi, with a shim on the wastegate
dsmlink or aem since an afc won't let you have direct control on timing.
weight reduction for faster ETs
Mild cam like a hks264 or 272 and not the BS BC cams.
Something better than a 2g manifold, like an evo3 or fp. And a good flowing exhaust.

I don't think there is any big secret. It's mostly the fuel, If your trying to do that on pump gas well then good luck.
I also don't see why you would step down from a 57trim to a 16g. But that is me, I like big turbos, I didn't care for the 16g when I had it on my car.

I agree with this little setup. But the safc would work on a 1g. I ran my 1200's on my 1g with maf-t and safc. Base timing was at 2* and I had very aggressive timing down low and peaking around 24*. Worked out great.

Up in my altitude us 16g guys all shoot for 110mph. Breaking 110mph up here is like 120mph at sea level. Thats why Im upgradin to a hx40 8/12 blade to get some good airflow.

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

If you dont have cams, a smim, a real fmic, and a lot of boost then most people won't see nothing over 350whp on a 16g.QUOTE]

My opinion you don't need a SMIM. Lots of people are doing fast times and good numbers on the evo3 manifold and even the stock manifold.
Mr Peepers, don't you have a 16g and went 11.1? Strictly modified went 10.9 on a 16g on a stock intake manifold.
I think a stock intake ported would benefit you more than a smim on a small turbo.

Here is what I think people are doing to obtain their 400whp. Weather it's fwd or awd.
Dynojet
e85 or race gas
Tons of timing since high octane fuel loves you.
30psi, with a shim on the wastegate
dsmlink or aem since an afc won't let you have direct control on timing.
weight reduction for faster ETs
Mild cam like a hks264 or 272 and not the BS BC cams.
Something better than a 2g manifold, like an evo3 or fp. And a good flowing exhaust.

I don't think there is any big secret. It's mostly the fuel, If your trying to do that on pump gas well then good luck.
I also don't see why you would step down from a 57trim to a 16g. But that is me, I like big turbos, I didn't care for the 16g when I had it on my car.

Well i didn't technically mean like that, i just meant that there better be some magical way of you proving that you CAN make a lot of power from a 16g.

 

[Mr Peepers]

My opinion you don't need a SMIM. Lots of people are doing fast times and good numbers on the evo3 manifold and even the stock manifold.
Mr Peepers, don't you have a 16g and went 11.1? Strictly modified went 10.9 on a 16g on a stock intake manifold.
I think a stock intake ported would benefit you more than a smim on a small turbo.

Here is what I think people are doing to obtain their 400whp. Weather it's fwd or awd.
Dynojet
e85 or race gas
Tons of timing since high octane fuel loves you.
30psi, with a shim on the wastegate
dsmlink or aem since an afc won't let you have direct control on timing.
weight reduction for faster ETs
Mild cam like a hks264 or 272 and not the BS BC cams.
Something better than a 2g manifold, like an evo3 or fp. And a good flowing exhaust.

I don't think there is any big secret. It's mostly the fuel, If your trying to do that on pump gas well then good luck.
I also don't see why you would step down from a 57trim to a 16g. But that is me, I like big turbos, I didn't care for the 16g when I had it on my car.

Nope, just 11.8 so far

Kenny, kp116, went 11.@129 on a stock TB and intake mani albeit with an hx40. Oh, and BS BC 272's We get confused as each other a lot locally haha

I still want to dyno so I can stop saying, "judging by trap speed and weight..." but an safc and ported 2g mani seems to work alright but of course there is more left on the table.

 

[dsm-onster]

Meh, dynos are tuning tools. I trust an accurate weight and 1/4 trap speed over a dyno any time. A dyno jet is probably the least operator manipulative. But those can even vary quite a bit from one DJ to the next. And the reak takes into consideration your ambient temps and other various differences not seen on a dyno.

Be happy you have that 119.66mph at 3050 race weight. That's really, truely provable and comparable across the board with others. It's 408whp. WHP calculator from ET and weight.

 

[joyfil2001]

here is my 400+hp sheet.......and pics of the intake i made. i was isung the sl2 18g, turns out its no better than the e316g.

What do you mean by that? I have the FP18gSL-2. Are you saying it doesn't flow any better than the e3-16g? That's kind of depressing.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

No, that's not right. I don't have the flow sheets in front of me. But I remember the 18g-6SL2 having superior flow compared to the E3-16g.

 

[joyfil2001]

No, that's not right. I don't have the flow sheets in front of me. But I remember the 18g-6SL2 having superior flow compared to the E3-16g.

I was hoping I didn't just pay $700 for nothing! However, when the car is running right, the thing pulls like a monster.

 

[toofast82]

I was hoping I didn't just pay $700 for nothing! However, when the car is running right, the thing pulls like a monster.

The 18g6sl2 has a slightly larger turbine wheel which should perform better at higher boost levels. The compressor flows very little more than the e316g. Fp said they felt the 18g performed better at higher boost levels as well.
In the real world unless you're really pushing your setup, you will probably hardly notice any difference between the two, especially in the low 20psi range.

 

[joyfil2001]

The 18g6sl2 has a slightly larger turbine wheel which should perform better at higher boost levels. The compressor flows very little more than the e316g. Fp said they felt the 18g performed better at higher boost levels as well.
In the real world unless you're really pushing your setup, you will probably hardly notice any difference between the two, especially in the low 20psi range.

So what your saying is I should crank the boost up to 28psi.

 

[toofast82]

So what your saying is I should crank the boost up to 28psi.

Do you have the supporting mods? Your profile doesn't have anything listed
You'll notice all the guys in this thread are running around 30psi midrange and its falling to around 22-24psi by redline to make the power numbers. The 18g may possibly a little more boost up top
I had a tod5h 18g on my last talon and it was good around 20psi, but it would really come alive around 24psi, especially in the midrange. up top as well

 

[joyfil2001]

Do you have the supporting mods? Your profile doesn't have anything listed
You'll notice all the guys in this thread are running around 30psi midrange and its falling to around 22-24psi by redline to make the power numbers. The 18g may possibly a little more boost up top
I had a tod5h 18g on my last talon and it was good around 20psi, but it would really come alive around 24psi, especially in the midrange. up top as well

Yea it's like that for a reason. I was just kidding about cranking it that high. I only have 650cc injectors. The most this thing has seen so far is 24psi and man did that make a difference from 20psi. Right now I'm working out some issues with exhaust leaks so I turned it down to 19psi. Eventually I would like to get some meth and get the boost up to about 28psi.

 

[dsm-onster]

The 18g6sl2 has a slightly larger turbine wheel which should perform better at higher boost levels. The compressor flows very little more than the e316g. Fp said they felt the 18g performed better at higher boost levels as well.
In the real world unless you're really pushing your setup, you will probably hardly notice any difference between the two, especially in the low 20psi range.

The turbine wheel is not slightly larger it flows significantly more.

The compressor flows 4-5lb/min more. That is also quite significant.

If anything, he'll notice more at low boost because the turbine flows quite a bit more than the tiny td05h turbine. Which is what the 16g has.

 

[bastard dsm]

Meh, dynos are tuning tools. I trust an accurate weight and 1/4 trap speed over a dyno any time. A dyno jet is probably the least operator manipulative. But those can even vary quite a bit from one DJ to the next. And the reak takes into consideration your ambient temps and other various differences not seen on a dyno.

Be happy you have that 119.66mph at 3050 race weight. That's really, truely provable and comparable across the board with others. It's 408whp. WHP calculator from ET and weight.

wow i just did my cars weight and trap on the calculator and it said 445hp....
funny ### thats what it dynoed on the dynojet. as for the 18g, the sheets arnt always right...
thats all i will say.im not saying its a bad turbo, but if i could do it again i would go with the e316g.

 

[wishihadatalon]

wow i just did my cars weight and trap on the calculator and it said 445hp....
funny ### thats what it dynoed on the dynojet.

According to that calculator it looks like my buddies car is making right around 400hp. It put down 309 on Buschur's dyno last year at the shootout.

 

[toofast82]

The turbine wheel is not slightly larger it flows significantly more.

The design of the blades enable the 6sl2 wheel to flow well for its size, true. If you look up the inducer/exducer specs, they are higher than tdo5h and by very little, but smaller than tdo6h.