1G Just bought another DSM after 12 years

[awdtsi_90]

I live in Wichita Kansas. If there are any fellow DSM people around or in Wichita I would love some help.

This car is a 1990 Eclipse GSX with 180,000. It has a 16g turbo, MAF translator. It also has a front mount intercooler & fuel pressure regulator that is always maxed out on the gauge, even when the car is off. I was told it would never move regardless on the adjustment. Supposed to be a aftermarket fuel pump wired but not sure on what the pump or injectors are. The wide band gauge in the car constantly shows a 18 at all times. The fuel gauge dosnt work & I believe the temperature and oil pressure gauge are not correct also. Oil pressure shows high almost all the time and will bleed off to normal then sky rocket again. The temp gauge never went above 1/3 on the gauge granted it was 70°.

I did pick up the car for $2,000. It does run and drive and had a 30 min drive home at highway speeds. But would love some input and help on figuring it out and with the wires idk what are and are cut .

The powesteering pump leaks from the fitting. Is what the silicon is on there for which dosnt help so will be needing a new line or a fitting.

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[awdtsi_90]

@ were on boost. Thank you. You have literally helped and given me so much more knowledge. I appreciate it greatly

yes. that's the only different thing was me turning on the enrichment. I also pulled out the sparkplugs and put them back in and unplugged the battery to reset it which I'm sure did nothing .

I do need to get a new ignition coil pack to eliminate that. I have someone to help me pull out the ecu. I just don't know when he will come over but I will try it again today myself. I'm still hoping the ecu is in good shape and had ecm link.

I could prolly use those injectors. I could get them cleaned, them what o rings do I put on? can I get them in a o ring assortment set? That would help me and can't hurt.

What about wires ? the bottoms of mine were white but not sure cuz they might be just fine & just discoloration from time.

 

[We're on Boost]

I'm going to be gone all day today but I'll get back to you on this stuff late tonight.

I do need to get a new ignition coil pack to eliminate that.

What is it that needs to be eliminated by getting a new coil pack?
Anyway, I'm going to update myself on the coil pack availability situation later tonight and will let you know what I find.
An O-ring assortment is very unlikely to do you any good anywhere on the car. I can look into that later also!
New spark plug wires are unlikely to help but the NGK blue wire set for 1g is still available (I think) and is awesome and is not overpriced so I'll check up on that too for current status.

Looking forward to some video showing the AFR gauge during a test drive!

 

[awdtsi_90]

The o rings will be replaced when they get cleaned from a guy a town over from me who has a business in cleaning injectors. I was told about him from a guy at work.

What I'm needing to eliminate still is how the car died and backfired. I haven't driven it yet and it's raining today so i wont drive it because the window motor hasn't been replaced yet. I have it just havnt gotten around to it. But I am assuming there is still a problem that caused it because I haven't changed anything just switched up the enrichment startup

 

[We're on Boost]

What I'm needing to eliminate still is how the car died and backfired.

Yeah, that's what will be interesting when you get to test drive it. To see if it still does that.
What I figure is if we have video of the AFR gauge while it is acting bad, it will help. The AFR should only go above 15 when you take your foot off the gas to slow down (coasting in gear).

I did look into coil packs. The NGK coil packs are no longer available, but there are other aftermarket brands available and 1 or 2 of them are brands that are probably good. On Rock Auto that would be the:
Standard Motor Products UF114
and
Delphi GN10805
1990 coil packs
The 1990 coil pack has a 4 position connector. The 91-94 is a 3 position connector. So like the Power Transistor, the 1990 is unique.
Also the 1990 coil pack has other gizmos on it for driving the tachometer. The 91-94 doesn't do it that way.

Spark Plug wires, Rock Auto sells the NGK 9634 (ME64) complete wire set for $30. Really good. They are exact OEM fit like it says on the box but improved materials and construction, and made in Japan.
NGK 9634

The o rings will be replaced when they get cleaned from a guy a town over from me who has a business in cleaning injectors.

Here's what the seals look like. There are 3 rubber things on each injector and only one thing is an o-ring. The other 2 things are called an insulator and a grommet. I would imagine the insulator and grommet on your car are in pretty bad shape just because of age. Otherwise you could just replace the O-rings probably.

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I looked around a little for where you could buy a good quality seal kit for these stock 450cc injectors and what I came up with is a kit by FIC but where I found it is on the MAPerformance web site. Their picture looks funny but I found the same picture on the FIC website. Anyway here's the MAP page for it:
injector seal kit
If it was just the 4 o-rings, Fel-Pro sells an o-ring kit for the DSM injectors that is pretty easy to buy, even Amazon Prime.
It's the FEL-PRO ES 70600.

 

[awdtsi_90]

I did a compression test and it was 120 in all cylinders. It starts quick tho just dies when warmed up. I wasn't able to drive it today but tomorrow if it starts which I think it will when it's cold I will take it down the street.

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The car was running for a few minutes and I took this to show the afr still

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Right before this video I reved it up to about 3500 rpm to watch afr and it came down and kept idle. I decided to film it for you guys but this time it died. I am assuming from it getting warmed up. That leads to the cam position sensor right?

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[We're on Boost]

I did a compression test and it was 120 in all cylinders.

This is good, especially that it was on a cold engine and that it is even across all the cylinders. The engine sounds even when it's running. I like it.

just dies when warmed up. I wasn't able to drive it today ....

Did it die today? From the video I can't tell how far you got it warmed up today or if it died then.

The car was running for a few minutes and I took this to show the afr still

It's nice that the first minute of cold running is at an AFR in the low 12's. But if the car had been running for a couple or 3 minutes by the end of this video, and the AFR is still down at 12.2, then I'm thinking again that it for some reason is not going into closed loop when it should be.
So a video showing the AFR gauge (and the temp gauge on the dash) as it gets warmer and quits running or starts running bad, that's the next thing we need I think.

 

[We're on Boost]

Right before this video I reved it up to about 3500 rpm to watch afr and it came down and kept idle. I decided to film it for you guys but this time it died. I am assuming from it getting warmed up. That leads to the cam position sensor right?

Oh I didn't see this when I was making my last post.
In this video it looks like it was still idling at 12.3 AFR, then when you blipped the throttle the AFR went up to 13.0 for about a quarter of a second. Then in basically 1 frame of video (1/30th of a second) the AFR jumped from 13.0 to 18.7 and it can't run at 18.7 AFR. Or maybe it wasn't actually 18.7, maybe 18.7 is just the highest it will read (dead lean as in no fuel, or off-scale lean).
Anyway, so quick it went from 12.3 to blank.
I don't know what would make it go out that way except that it must be something electrical. A sensor, or the ECU, the MAF, the Translator, the power transistor, or a few other things!

Maybe it isn't any of the regular Mitsubishi components going into sudden fail when it quits running like that.
Maybe it is just the Translator turning off the startup enrichment. I would think it would taper out of that over several seconds though, rather than suddenly. But we don't know anything about how long it stays in startup enrichment or how it ends that.
If that's what just happened, then it's back to the idea that it just doesn't run rich enough in normal running, which still could be the MAF or the Translator not putting out the correct Hz for the amount of airflow, or some problem in the ECU, or the narrow band O2 sensor.

I don't know if it would be the CAS. I've never had one of those go bad so I don't know how they act when they go.

 

[SigSauer]

Welcome, been a great read so far. Glad you saved this.

 

[awdtsi_90]

What I don't get is why no CEL comes on. Could that be leaning toward the MAF or the ecu? The 02 narrow band sensor I never replaced. Just the wideband sensor I replaced. But then again the MAF translator seems to be working because it's pulling down the A/F when we make adjustments.

Maybe the car has a good vacuum leak somewhere? I dont think that would cause it to die when warmed up tho.

When I first got the car the gauge was always at 18 on the afr. So that would not be the reason it's not running correct because it drove that way for a week with no issues right?

Also if the afr is still high 17-18 what could it be? Fuel filter, Injectors, caccume leak. We have the dials turned up for more fuel so idk.

It's just impossible for me to buy a power transistor & a cam position sensor at the same time and that's alot of money if it dosnt fix it .

I still haven't been able to get the ecu out which i will try again today.

Today I will let it warm up and when it dies, I will pull wires and see if I have spark.

Also what about the idle control valve? Could that cause it to not run once its warmed up. even if I am pushing the throttle down?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I have one car with a MAF Translator in it in a suck thru configuration so I thought I would throw a picture of its settings onto the thread. The motor has FP2's and a Ebay 16g turbo is all. Once I figured out the translator settings, the car ran pretty dam good but I didn't have a AFR gauge so it was just hit and miss on tuning the dam thing.
Glad the car is starting to come around for you!

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[awdtsi_90]

Marty, it looks like you have your mid and wot turned to C which would be 20% less fuel right? I have mine set to these settings in the pic but now mode #3 for atart up enrichment is turned on . Car has stock 450 injectors. A 16g turbo, fuel pressure regulator with a unknown fuel pump. here are my settings. I was also trying to pull the afr down. Maybe I will put the settings back to what they were when I got the car & turn the fuel pressure down to 40 & see what it dose. Maybe I have to much fuel & the afr gauge is just broken . I bought a new bosch wideband sensor for it tho but idk. Trial and error at this point. Thinking ignition coil modue or cam position sensor if changing the setting don't fix it.

The check engine light dosnt come on when it dies. When I turn the ignition to on it lights up with the rest of the cluster which tells me it works just isn't throwing a code right?

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I didn't have any directions on how to operate this thing so I found a picture of what knobs did what and this is what made the car run the best, and basically the same as your car. 450 injectors, 16g, Ebay header and in the draw thru mode (it is mounted before the turbo) just as a reference for you since that car is not running at the moment. I got it and 2 weeks later, it started the faint sound of rod knock so I immediately parked it in hopes of saving the crank/rods from any further damage. It ran pretty dam good after we fiddled with the setting a bit. Maybe it ran good because it was lean, IDK.

 

[We're on Boost]

Also what about the idle control valve? Could that cause it to not run once its warmed up. even if I am pushing the throttle down?

No, if you are on the gas pedal a little bit you are letting more air into the engine than the ISC ever could.

Marty, it looks like you have your mid and wot turned to C which would be 20% less fuel right?

Right. Minus 20% in the Mid and WOT. The Mid and WOT ranges are at a higher Hz than we have gotten your car to as yet. You might have gotten a little ways into the Mid range in one of your earlier videos - the one where we saw AFR come down into the 13's for a second or 2.

Maybe I have to much fuel & the afr gauge is just broken . I bought a new bosch wideband sensor for it tho but idk.

I actually think your AFR gauge is working pretty accurately. The way the engine is acting is consistent with what the AFR gauge shows. 12.2 is good for the first minute after a cold start. 18 is so lean the engine shouldn't even be running, and it does quit then.

Your car should be running too rich given the high fuel pressure of ~50 psi at idle with the vacuum hose connected! But it's not running too rich. So it seems to me that the MAF or the Translator are damaged, just not working right, that is they are sending a Hz to the ecu that is way off, too low. Or maybe your narrow band O2 sensor is bad. If we had a volt meter on the wire from the O2 to the ecu, we could tell. A new O2 sensor is only about $50 though. If you can get at that thing with a proper wrench and if it is not completely seized by rust in the threads, I'd probably take it out and replace it with a new one. A volt meter - would have to tap into the signal wire from the O2 to the ecu and maybe you are not comfortable yet doing that type of thing. A digital voltmeter is not necessarily very good for this, because they update slow and it winds up looking like just a bunch of random numbers throwing at the screen. A mechanical analog gauge would be better I think because the needle will follow the voltage trend up and down. A 0-1 volt scale would be ideal. So just throwing this in here in case you are interested in trying it:
analog panel meter 0 to 1 volt
A meter like this usually has an input impedance of only about 10,000 ohms which is not ideal, but some of our Mitsu ECU inputs aren't much better.
Just replacing the O2 would be easier if you can get the old one out.
For a new one, this is the right one and best brand (NTK).
NTK narrow band O2 sensor for 1g
It has the right round electrical connector and everything else good. You could check it with your own lookup in RockAuto. Their listing says "only 1 remaining" but it has said that for about 2 years now! I'm guessing maybe they only keep one in stock at a time, because I bought one when it said that and here a year later it still says that .

Anyway I think maybe the closed loop fuel trims aren't working in your ecu, because I don't think we've ever seen closed loop in any of your videos.
This is the kind of thing where it would be a lot better if you had DSMlink, because then we'd have logs showing your O2 sensor voltage continuously, and showing closed or open loop, and we'd have logs of your MAF Hz, and we'd have logs of your fuel trims!

But DSMlink for your car is another whole subject because they don't offer the GM MAF Cable anymore.
For some reason they couldn't do the whole GM MAF Translation in their chip, so they did part of it in the cable! The cable is not just wires. It has some electronics embedded in it. And they don't make that cable anymore. I think you'd still need the MAF Translator and you'd run the output of that to DSMlink. So then if it's your Translator that's bad, you'd still be screwed.

If we knew that your GM MAF was bad, I have the one I used and it should be in great shape because it was stored well, and it was only used on the car for maybe 1,000 miles and it worked great with the ecu+ doing the Translator function. I don't want to part with the ecu+ but the MAF I could.
Guess what I also have my original 1g MAF that was on the car for 130,000 miles from the factory, and it was working fine when I took it off the car too.
Probably the cleanest way to go would be to buy ECMlink and run it on Speed Density. That would cost about $1,000 with a good MAP sensor and conversion of your ecu to eprom (if it's not eprom already). But they would repair anything that is wrong with your ecu too.
So there are some ways to go with it.

It's a bunch of stuff and I only know a little about these cars, so we're going to need lots of help!

 

[awdtsi_90]

Today when I got home from work I went to start the car and it would not start. I pulled one of the plugs off as i put a screwdriver in there as I grounded that put on the side mount while my wife was cranking the car. Long behold there was no spark. I pulled the plugs out of th3 coil pack and they are super corroded, even inside the coil pqcl where u put the wire in is corroded also. One is even bent and is broken now . I am assuming the culprit of this issue is definitely the ignition coil pack.

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I sanded the contacts and the car is running and has made it past the temp it use to shut off at. Here are the settings I have on the MAF. They are at 0 0 6 2 1 with the startup enrichment turned off. as I was sitting here idling the car is sitting at 13.5 -13.9 at idle. I'm about to take it for a spin

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I just want to apologize about all the rattles . the headlights, corner lights, hood, everything rattles in this car and it sounds bad on video. The car is running and seems to be running good. Sanding the wires really did the trick. so I am ordering new wires, spark plugs, and a ignition coil pack.

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The fuel pressure is now set to 40 with the hose connected and almost 50 with the vacuum line off.

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[We're on Boost]

The car is running and seems to be running good. Sanding the wires really did the trick. so I am ordering new wires, spark plugs, and a ignition coil pack.

That's awesome!
I does sound pretty good in the video.
The AFR we see on the gauge is kind of all over the place though. Mostly it's too lean.
And it still looks like it doesn't go into closed loop at all, ever.
But I think once you have the new wires, coil pack, and plugs in there, we can re-evaluate!
In the mean time you should probably try to richen it up a little, for safety of the engine.

In the fuel pressure video, it went up about 8 psi (from 40 to 48) when you took the hose off and that's just about right.

If it was running in closed loop you should see the AFR cycling back and forth between about 13.8 and 15.2 or so, if the wideband is accurate and the closed loop system is working right.

 

[SigSauer]

I just want to apologize about all the rattles . the headlights, corner lights, hood, everything rattles in this car and it sounds bad on video. The car is running and seems to be running good. Sanding the wires really did the trick. so I am ordering new wires, spark plugs, and a ignition coil pack.

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Hell yeah!!!

 

[awdtsi_90]

We're on boost, You are right about the afr gauge seems to be working pretty accurately. I will start adding more fuel. I will turn up the idle to 7 which is the most I can add. that's 35% I have it at 6 now which is 30%.

The mid and wot I will turn up another one or 2 just to richin the motor and keep it safe like you said.

I'm pretty stoked about this. still gotta get the ecu out to see if it has dsmlink or why it was open if it dosnt

 

[We're on Boost]

or why it was open

Do you mean that the cover was off of the ecu when you bought the car?

 

[awdtsi_90]

no it was closed up in the car, but it has been opened up at some point I can tell because the warranty stickers on the side of the ecu have been cut indicating that the ecu was open.

I am hoping it has dsmlink and the cable got lost and then forgot about in time with the owners changing

 

[We're on Boost]

Another good reason would be if they replaced the capacitors. The capacitors leak electrolyte when they get old and it gradually wrecks circuit board traces and other small components that are surface mounted on the board. Like what we found in that Gustav thread, with his car. That's just the most recent one I've seen. It happens all the time. The capacitors in my 1990 ecu have been replaced twice already. If you look at those pics in the Gustav thread you'll see that the leakage and damage is not grossly evident in the pictures. You kind of have to know what to look for.
The other thing inside that is a little confusing is the conformal coating which is a clear rubbery or waxy stuff that the whole circuit board is coated with as a last step in manufacturing. It looks a little runny in places and people don't know what to make of it if they don't know about it. I think that is pointed out in that thread too.
This thread:
https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/c...s-doesnt-catch-up-when-engine-braking.544743/

 

[awdtsi_90]

update. I got my old car back. 10 years later.1990 eagle talon tsi

Needs some work tho

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[We're on Boost]

update. I got my old car back. 10 years later.1990 eagle talon tsi

Ha!
Are you going to keep both cars?
Looks like your old car has a GM MAF also. It's in pull-through though.
What turbo is on it?

 

[awdtsi_90]

Yes I am keeping both. The car when i sold it was a fresh rebuild and balance shaft belt delet with new water pump and blue timing belt, Kyb struts with tein springs. The turbo is a bullseye performance 55 trim with a hks ssq bov, i believe a FP manifold, a new oil cooler, act 6 puck clutch with a light weight flywheel all done by fusion works racing. When I sold the car all this had prolly 5-7,000 miles on it when I sold the car to him.

he says he put less than 100 miles and i believe it. I think the car has sit because when i sold it thr shaft was broken and it still is. Could the intermediate shaft be broken or just a c.v. shaft?

He said it has a eprom on the ecu which has dsmlink In the cable.

Yes this car has a gm MAF but not translator for it.

The car came with some spare parts that are 1000cc injectors ? , a 255 walbrol fuel pump with kit, front mount intercooler that it may be all there and a spare transmission and also a rear end. I will take pics of those today to post.

I am going to mess with the talon this weekend when it's a little warmer.

And then with the eclipse I am getting the ignition coil pack, wires & plugs today and I will be changing those out sometime soon. I need a starter for the talon and will get one ordered in 2 weeks

We replaced the window motor on the passenger door and the cables came off and now it's f***ed and I'm lost . I got the window propped up with a board in there.

When I get some cash I may just have to let a shop deal with it to get it done. We got the new motor in but the spring and cables came undone.

 

[chrisman287]

The fuel pressure is now set to 40 with the hose connected and almost 50 with the vacuum line off.

I thought you were supposed to adjust these with the the hose off and end pinched to about 40, then reconnect the hose.

 

[awdtsi_90]

I thought to set the fuel pressure it would be with the hose off and capped with finger, then once it's set at desired psi you plug the vacuum line back on the regulator and it's done. I just got back into cars so I'm leanring all of this again