1G Just bought another DSM after 12 years

[awdtsi_90]

I live in Wichita Kansas. If there are any fellow DSM people around or in Wichita I would love some help.

This car is a 1990 Eclipse GSX with 180,000. It has a 16g turbo, MAF translator. It also has a front mount intercooler & fuel pressure regulator that is always maxed out on the gauge, even when the car is off. I was told it would never move regardless on the adjustment. Supposed to be a aftermarket fuel pump wired but not sure on what the pump or injectors are. The wide band gauge in the car constantly shows a 18 at all times. The fuel gauge dosnt work & I believe the temperature and oil pressure gauge are not correct also. Oil pressure shows high almost all the time and will bleed off to normal then sky rocket again. The temp gauge never went above 1/3 on the gauge granted it was 70°.

I did pick up the car for $2,000. It does run and drive and had a 30 min drive home at highway speeds. But would love some input and help on figuring it out and with the wires idk what are and are cut .

The powesteering pump leaks from the fitting. Is what the silicon is on there for which dosnt help so will be needing a new line or a fitting.

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[awdtsi_90]

I am hoping with a new 02 sensor it will run good and not have any issue or noise. The noise was horrible like a really bad exhaust leak and u could hear the pipe rattling.

 

[We're on Boost]

I am hoping with a new 02 sensor it will run good and not have any issue or noise. The noise was horrible like a really bad exhaust leak and u could hear the pipe rattling.

Yup, good chance probably.
I just looked at the Walker Products pdf called "Oxygen Sensors 101" to see what they say about contamination of O2 sensors by oils and smoke. I'm going to post the pdf here. The section on page 7 labeled "Failures" is mostly what we're interested in. Sounds there like the small amounts of metals in motor oil additives are damaging, and silicates are damaging (like from anti-freeze or from RTV). Fogging oil wouldn't have metals or silicates. But strangely there is a mechanism whereby smoke in the engine bay can temporarily throw the O2 sensor off, which they sort of explain.
So here's that pdf:

 

[awdtsi_90]

I ment the o2 sensor housing. Would that cracked pipe throw the check engine light with the o2 sensor being right there at the cracked pipe? I didn't plan on replacing the 02 sensor. just the o2 housing

 

[We're on Boost]

I ment the o2 sensor housing. Would that cracked pipe throw the check engine light with the o2 sensor being right there at the cracked pipe? I didn't plan on replacing the 02 sensor. just the o2 housing

Oh just the housing, ok.
I think it's possible that a lot of oil smoke right there from the cracked housing might throw a check engine light. Don't really know. But here's why it might:
I just read a whole bunch of stuff about the "reference air" that an O2 sensor needs to work.
I never even knew this until today.
An O2 sensor has to be able to breathe outside air in very small amounts to read right or to even function at all. The air it breathes goes to the "reference" side of the cell. Contaminated air can ruin the sensor permanently according to what I've read, depending on what the contaminants are. You aren't supposed to spray them with anything for example, like with a cleaner. There are forum posts where Porsche guys have killed their sensors by spraying the electrical connector with a cleaner!
That's because their sensors breath their reference air through the fricking wires!
I don't know where our sensors breathe but I think it's on the sensor body somewhere.

So anyway, if smoke made your sensor throw a code, I would hope that will be temporary, that it is not permanently poisoned.

Hey that reminds me, while you have the old O2 housing off of there, take a good look for cracks in the underside of the exhaust manifold. We have a 2g person in here who showed pics of a nasty crack he found in his just recently. Take a look:

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/overheating-issue.540996/page-3#post-153893789

Since the Talon is actually throwing a check engine light, there would be a diagnosis code stored in the ecu.
So you should read the codes. Code 11 is oxygen sensor.
The stored codes will disappear when you disconnect the battery cable.

If DSMlink was hooked up and working on the car you'd be able to read the codes on your laptop. DTCs they are called in there.
If you don't have the cable or whatever to get that working, I could point you to a 15 volt analog panel meter (about $10) that would be really good for checking codes from the diagnostic port.

 

[awdtsi_90]

When I get the 02 housing this week I will get it put on the talon and see how it runs. To bad I didn't keep the old 02 sensor I replaced for the eclipse . I have never pulled off a o2 housing but it looks like it's just a few bolts and then 2 gaskets right.

Dsmlink is installed on the talon I just don't have the cable or disk for it yet. If he can't find it I will have to order a new one. The software I can just download from their website right?

o2 sensor prolly is trash now because of the fogging oil and the pipe being cracked/broke all at the same time. Maybe it will be fine but I will definitely let you guys know when I get the replacement housing.

What all do you have done to your talon? You have 2 of them don't you

 

[We're on Boost]

I have never pulled off a o2 housing but it looks like it's just a few bolts and then 2 gaskets right.

Yeah bolts and gaskets. The worst part usually is just that some of the bolts will probably be stuck pretty bad.

Dsmlink is installed on the talon I just don't have the cable or disk for it yet. If he can't find it I will have to order a new one. The software I can just download from their website right?

Yes the software that you put on the laptop is free, you just download it from their web page.
The history of your ecu in the Talon is pretty unclear. It looks like it was an eprom ecu already (from the factory). I don't think any of the 1990's came that way. So it might be a 1991-1994 eprom ecu, and the guy just bought a V3 chip for it. Maybe he never had a cable. Who knows, it could be anything. I still worry that if the guy didn't send the whole ecu in to ECMtuning, just bought a V3 chip, then the ecu itself might have old capacitors that still should be replaced.
Anyway the first thing is just to get a cable and plug it into the diagnostic port, and install the software onto a laptop, and then see if it will "connect" when you push the Connect button in the software.
https://www.ecmtuning.com/downloads/docs/ECMLink 1G Cable Installation.pdf

o2 sensor prolly is trash now because of the fogging oil and the pipe being cracked/broke all at the same time. Maybe it will be fine but I will definitely let you guys know when I get the replacement housing.

It might be ok. It might have a temporary problem that could be burned off. Once ECMlink is working we won't have to guess about things like this!
A new NGK sensor comes with a little packet of anti-seize compound and they tell you to put a little bit of it on the threads. It looks like the copper type anti-seize. They tell you to be careful not to get any compound on the tip of the sensor. Also, put it only on the male threads (on the sensor). Not on the female threads that are in the hole in the O2 housing. If you put compound in that hole, the excess compound will get pushed ahead of the sensor threads and end up in there with the tip where it might do some harm.

What all do you have done to your talon? You have 2 of them don't you

I only have one. I guess having 2 vehicle "tiles" at the bottom of my posts is confusing. But the one with a picture of the English Racing truck is my current version of the car. The other tile that is a picture of some wires coming out of the ecu, that is the same car as it was up to 2015.
The whole project with English Racing happened in 2015 and 2016. Yup 2 years. Lots of mods and lots of money too.
So if you pick the vehicle tile with their truck on it, that takes you to my specs and photos and mods page and there it all is!
I've put date ranges on some of the things in there that have evolved multiple times since 2016.
There's info in there that most people would put in their "Build" thread. So my Build thread is relatively short.

 

[awdtsi_90]

wow. that is a serious build!!! I'm sure that was atleast 30g into the car. Congratulations man. that is awsome and i would love to have the talon in a few years at 450 hp. But it's about to be a daily everyday.

 

[We're on Boost]

wow. that is a serious build!!! I'm sure that was atleast 30g into the car. Congratulations man. that is awsome and i would love to have the talon in a few years at 450 hp. But it's about to be a daily everyday.

Yeah.
450 hp is a good level. There is a chance that your transmission and other drivetrain parts will still last for quite a while at 450 hp, as long as you aren't doing hard launches. And you can do 450 hp with a small enough turbo that you still would have the boost coming in nice and early in the rev range. My setup feels awesome from 4,500 rpm and up, but below that it's, well it's still fun because it's loud and all, but it's not torquey enough to be very exciting in 3rd gear until I get it over 4,500. So I need 2nd gear a lot! At 4,500 rpm I have about 300 ft-lbs of torque and the torque is increasing very fast as revs go up from there.

 

[awdtsi_90]

Right now the talon has a bulls eye performance 55 trim it. I know I will need to put the FMIC, the 1,000cc injectors, the 255 fuel pump to hit that goal, atleast i think those parts will allow me to attain it, what do you think? I have those parts sitting in the garage.

I know before I make that power I need the tranny rebuilt just to make it dependable and last for a while. J wouldn't launch hard as I wouldn't race it. I just want the power to have and it's a healthy amount of power I feel like. But in time it will happen. Now I am just waiting to drive it

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[We're on Boost]

I know I will need to put the FMIC, the 1,000cc injectors, the 255 fuel pump to hit that goal, atleast i think those parts will allow me to attain it, what do you think? I have those parts sitting in the garage.

Yes, those 3 things are all good for ~450 hp.
Almost the first thing you need is a 3" downpipe. Although the first few inches of the downpipe can be 2.5 inches to mate up with the O2 housing like you bought which probably has a 2.5" outlet?
Even on my car, my O2 housing is 2.5" and the first couple inches of the downpipe is 2.5" to match up with the O2.
Then of course the rest of the exhaust system aft of the downpipe has to be 3" too.

The Bullseye 55 trim I'm not familiar with and I don't remember reading much about them. I got interested in the Bullseye stuff when they started making turbos with some Borg Warner parts. The 55 trim would have been before that I think?
What I remember about the power levels people were getting in those days with medium sized turbos of the day like the 50 trim and the GT3076 - it was something like this:
~400 hp on pump gas (like 93 octane usually)
~500 hp on race gas
Those numbers probably needed a few other items, like cams warmer than stock.

I wouldn't necessarily just start off by rebuilding the tranny. I don't think I would, unless the synchros were shot or there was some other obvious thing wrong with it. Rebuilding trannys these days has turned into kind of a nightmare with so many parts no longer available. Especially with a 1990. Supposedly the 1990 gearset was one of the strongest ones. So I don't know, it's a situation that is changing all the time now. It's possible that DSM World might be saved by Australia. Yeah. A shop there called NEAT Gearboxes might be manufacturing some tranny parts for us in the near future. And lots of people are interested in developing 3D printed parts, which is a developing technology still but seems to be getting almost there.

 

[awdtsi_90]

The guy said it grinds in 2nd and will need to be dealt with. So I am assuming it's the synchros but years down the road i will be having Jack's transmission rebuild this one.

I'm not sure on the pipe. it is pretty big piping so I am assuming it's 3 inches but will measure it with some calipers when I get home.

I remember the reason I went with bulls eye is because they used the Mitsubishi housing for manifold and didn't require a special one like a t3/t4.

How often do you drive your talon?

 

[We're on Boost]

The guy said it grinds in 2nd and will need to be dealt with. So I am assuming it's the synchros but years down the road i will be having Jack's transmission rebuild this one.

Yeah.

I remember the reason I went with bulls eye is because they used the Mitsubishi housing for manifold and didn't require a special one like a t3/t4.

Right, Bullseye did a good thing making those DSM housings. Forced Performance is just about the only one doing that now that I know of, unless Bullseye is still doing it.

How often do you drive your talon?

In the summer I try to drive it about once per week. I actually did drive it that often this summer. It seems pretty reliable lately!
In the winter I only drive it about once per month because I'm really picky about the weather. I don't want to drive it on wet roads, or with any chance of icy spots. Mostly I want to keep it out of the wet. The car doesn't have much rust on it and I want to keep it that way.

 

[awdtsi_90]

How dose the car drive for being so built? Could it be driven daily or would just cruising the car not like it? I was reading up yesterday and installing the fmic down thr road and shit. That sounds like a chore but can't afford to get it installed as I assume jt would take a while so it will be a weekend project sometime down the road. I am enjoying driving these daily just ready for this talon to be the one I drive and not sitting. Life is so expensive and trying to fix & kinda restore a dsm all while being broke don't go gold together

 

[We're on Boost]

How dose the car drive for being so built? Could it be driven daily or would just cruising the car not like it? I was reading up yesterday and installing the fmic down thr road and shit. That sounds like a chore but can't afford to get it installed as I assume jt would take a while so it will be a weekend project sometime down the road. I am enjoying driving these daily just ready for this talon to be the one I drive and not sitting. Life is so expensive and trying to fix & kinda restore a dsm all while being broke don't go gold together

That's true about it being too expensive, both money and time.

My engine would actually be ok for a daily driver. If the car still had the normal synchro gearbox I could daily drive it, if I had to. But I still wouldn't because I would have the feeling that I'm just burning the car up, and I want it to last for another 10 - 20 years.
For daily use, the dogbox tranny and the Quarter Master twin disc clutch are not very good.
The reason I have the dogbox is because after the engine was modded to 650 hp, the gearbox only lasted for about 2 years worth of occasional driving.
It broke 2nd gear, which is the gear I was doing hard pulls in.
2nd gear broke after about maybe 40 or 50 hard pulls.
That gearbox was a fairly fresh rebuild of a 91-94 type gearbox, it was not the original 1990 box.
Now it's sitting in my garage. We didn't even bother to open it up because Tim (Zimmer) wanted an unbroken core to start from when he built the PPG dogbox for me.

So the dogbox, I feel like I'm breaking it a little bit every time I drive it. And you could break something all at once if you miss-shifted into 1st instead of 3rd on a hard pull through the gears.

The clutch is a big subject with the 1g especially because of the weak mechanical linkage that goes from the clutch pedal to the master cylinder. The whole thing flexes enough that you don't get as much slave travel as you should with a heavy clutch. Then wear in the joints accumulates too and that makes it worse.
So to operate a clutch like an ACT 2700 (used to be 2600 about 10 years ago) which is just about what you need even for 400 hp, people start having trouble with lack of disengagement because the clutch spring is so stiff.
The usual "fix" is to weld the master lever onto the end of that cross shaft. Part of that is to replace the plastic bushings with brass bushings (which you can buy) which won't melt when you do the welding.

Anyway, on my car that's never been welded. What I did instead was, I changed to a twin disc clutch, the Quarter Master. Which has a lighter spring and plenty of grip. But it's hard to drive because the engagement is a lot more sudden and harsh.

So the tranny and the clutch on my car are not good for daily driver duty. You could, but for most people I think the dogbox would take the fun out of shifting. I don't just shift whenever I feel like it now. I sort of premeditate every shift. And I double clutch the downshifts.

The engine though! I don't even have an IAT sensor in my system, and it still works ok! But it was all setup by English Racing and they get good results with it that way. Using coolant temp but not air temp for the speed-density.

So for the engine, I think 650 hp is ok for a daily.
But a stock rebuild type tranny might not last long with it, and the clutch is kind of a situation that you may or may not find a happy resolution for. There are nicer twins but we don't have them for DSM. Nissan guys have them. ATS and Nismo.
There is a new clutch called "UniClutch" that I am going to keep an eye on. It's a preassembled twin disc clutch with an adapter plate to adapt it to different flywheels. I don't know if they make one yet that is suitable for fit into a DSM but I'm hoping. Guess where it is designed and made?
Australia. Here is a Motive Video about it:

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[awdtsi_90]

I forget what clutch is in the talon but when the notor was rebuilt I had him put in a 6 puck act clutch& an act light flywheel

Your car is fully built . I just hope years down th3 road when I can actually get a tranny rebuild the parts & service is still there.

Also It seems & shows that you are very well experienced and knowledgeable with these cars and in general mechanics & electronics.

 

[We're on Boost]

when the notor was rebuilt I had him put in a 6 puck act clutch& an act light flywheel

That might work out pretty good, because with the 6 puck disc you get the same rated torque capacity from the HD pressure plate that the XT pressure plate gives you with the organic street disc. The HD has a lot lighter spring in it than the XT, so if that's what yours is you might not have all the troubles that people have with the 2600/2700 which uses the XT pressure plate.
The ceramic friction material that is on the 6 puck disc has a lot more grip than the organic street disc material. The downside of the ceramic material is the engagement is more sudden, more harsh. But it gets better after about 200 miles of driving, and by then you are kind of getting used to it too. So it can all work out.
I asked Eric Weatherwax at ACT tech support (by email in 2020) what the clamping force of the HD type pressure plate is and he said it is 2100 lbs. So that's a lot less than the XT (2700 lbs) and it would be a heck of a lot easier for the pedal assembly parts to deal with.

Even if your pressure plate is the XT type, you might be ok as long as you are shifting at less than 8000 rpm. For a while. Until your pedal assembly gets worse
My pedal assembly did get to the point where it needed some help to work with an ACT 2700. You can see what English Racing did to get it working in post #4 in my build thread. That was done in 2016.

I like the ACT flywheels like the Streetlite. I had one for several years with no trouble.

 

[We're on Boost]

It's possible that DSM World might be saved by Australia. Yeah. A shop there called NEAT Gearboxes might be manufacturing some tranny parts for us in the near future.

Just wanted to make sure you notice this. Looks like this is actually going to happen in the next year.
https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/bigger-stronger-w5m33-gears.544932/#post-153901037
Be sure to read Tim Zimmer's post which is post #18 there.
The link to the NEAT page is in post #17 and it's a well done page listing all the parts.

Also, you probably got your Febest bearing kit a few days ago right? Does it look ok so far?

 

[awdtsi_90]

yes, I did get the bearings kit and it has everything in there. It will be a while before I have the shop do it because I gotta get another $400 in parts, then I have to save up because the labor will be about $1400. -_- crazy expensive but atleast I know it will be in good hands. so just the waiting time unless I win the lottery. Then it would be pretty quick

here is the kit

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[We're on Boost]

yes, I did get the bearings kit and it has everything in there. It will be a while before I have the shop do it because I gotta get another $400 in parts, then I have to save up because the labor will be about $1400. -_- crazy expensive but atleast I know it will be in good hands. so just the waiting time unless I win the lottery. Then it would be pretty quick

Good! Bearing kit looks about right. I noticed after you bought yours the quantity remaining on the Amazon page went down from 2 to 1. Now it is down to 0.
I looked at Fusion Racing's web site, the place in Wichita. It looks good to me. Hope it turns out to be a good shop for you.

 

[awdtsi_90]

I have used him before. for everything with the talon and it was my daily for like 10 years . I know he dose good work just is pricy at $130/hr but I know it's in good hands. At one point back in the day the shop car was a 2g gsx that ran 8 or 9's in the quarter mile. I think 8's but not sure

Yes, I am curious to see if they will get more in or if that really was the last 2

 

[pauleyman]

Good! Bearing kit looks about right. I noticed after you bought yours the quantity remaining on the Amazon page went down from 2 to 1. Now it is down to 0.
I looked at Fusion Racing's web site, the place in Wichita. It looks good to me. Hope it turns out to be a good shop for you.

Was probably me. It was cheap so I bought one.

 

[We're on Boost]

I have used him before. for everything with the talon and it was my daily for like 10 years

That sounds good then, about the shop!
I'm going to watch that Amazon Febest page too, to see if it ever starts having that bearing kit again.

Was probably me. It was cheap so I bought one.

well then the 3 of us got the last 3.
You got the last one, awdtsi_90 got the one before that, and I got the one before that.
I'm going to just leave mine in the little plastic bags in the box for in-case I ever need it.
All I've done is put a metric scale up to the bearing to make sure it's really 30 x 62 x 16mm and it is.
I don't know what the seals should measure.

 

[awdtsi_90]

I think its cool the 3 of us got the last ones. Its not cool it was the last ones tho. Surely in time tho parts will start getting made again as these cars are becoming a classic and people start reliving their child hood or early years. I like to think these cars will be sought after as they are pretty freaking rare now. We use to see dsm all over and I never see a 1g anymore. 2 g I see more but the 1ga looks are just yes. So is the 2gb talon tsi tho

 

[DreamChaser7]

That's true about it being too expensive, both money and time.

My engine would actually be ok for a daily driver. If the car still had the normal synchro gearbox I could daily drive it, if I had to. But I still wouldn't because I would have the feeling that I'm just burning the car up, and I want it to last for another 10 - 20 years.
For daily use, the dogbox tranny and the Quarter Master twin disc clutch are not very good.
The reason I have the dogbox is because after the engine was modded to 650 hp, the gearbox only lasted for about 2 years worth of occasional driving.
It broke 2nd gear, which is the gear I was doing hard pulls in.
2nd gear broke after about maybe 40 or 50 hard pulls.
That gearbox was a fairly fresh rebuild of a 91-94 type gearbox, it was not the original 1990 box.
Now it's sitting in my garage. We didn't even bother to open it up because Tim (Zimmer) wanted an unbroken core to start from when he built the PPG dogbox for me.

So the dogbox, I feel like I'm breaking it a little bit every time I drive it. And you could break something all at once if you miss-shifted into 1st instead of 3rd on a hard pull through the gears.

The clutch is a big subject with the 1g especially because of the weak mechanical linkage that goes from the clutch pedal to the master cylinder. The whole thing flexes enough that you don't get as much slave travel as you should with a heavy clutch. Then wear in the joints accumulates too and that makes it worse.
So to operate a clutch like an ACT 2700 (used to be 2600 about 10 years ago) which is just about what you need even for 400 hp, people start having trouble with lack of disengagement because the clutch spring is so stiff.
The usual "fix" is to weld the master lever onto the end of that cross shaft. Part of that is to replace the plastic bushings with brass bushings (which you can buy) which won't melt when you do the welding.

Anyway, on my car that's never been welded. What I did instead was, I changed to a twin disc clutch, the Quarter Master. Which has a lighter spring and plenty of grip. But it's hard to drive because the engagement is a lot more sudden and harsh.

So the tranny and the clutch on my car are not good for daily driver duty. You could, but for most people I think the dogbox would take the fun out of shifting. I don't just shift whenever I feel like it now. I sort of premeditate every shift. And I double clutch the downshifts.

The engine though! I don't even have an IAT sensor in my system, and it still works ok! But it was all setup by English Racing and they get good results with it that way. Using coolant temp but not air temp for the speed-density.

So for the engine, I think 650 hp is ok for a daily.
But a stock rebuild type tranny might not last long with it, and the clutch is kind of a situation that you may or may not find a happy resolution for. There are nicer twins but we don't have them for DSM. Nissan guys have them. ATS and Nismo.
There is a new clutch called "UniClutch" that I am going to keep an eye on. It's a preassembled twin disc clutch with an adapter plate to adapt it to different flywheels. I don't know if they make one yet that is suitable for fit into a DSM but I'm hoping. Guess where it is designed and made?
Australia. Here is a Motive Video about it:

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Umm yes please..

 

[awdtsi_90]

Good news everyone, this morning it was real feel 7 degrees and the car fired up instantly. This eclipse has made a huge improvement since I got it. I think the tranny mount needs replaced.

Next items are manual boost controller and tranny mount.

The boost gauge will peg and car will sneeze or cough. If I keep my eye on the boost gauge and don't let it go past the stock gauge it is fine and will pull. If I pedal to the floor the stock gauge gets pegged. Thr manual boost controller is broken I believe. When I turn it it dose nothing, no clicks so I think the turbo is just spooling up as much as it can. so I just drive it normal and never go past 1/2 throttle. Little steps with the car as it's my daily untill I get the talon going.