1G Just bought another DSM after 12 years

[awdtsi_90]

I live in Wichita Kansas. If there are any fellow DSM people around or in Wichita I would love some help.

This car is a 1990 Eclipse GSX with 180,000. It has a 16g turbo, MAF translator. It also has a front mount intercooler & fuel pressure regulator that is always maxed out on the gauge, even when the car is off. I was told it would never move regardless on the adjustment. Supposed to be a aftermarket fuel pump wired but not sure on what the pump or injectors are. The wide band gauge in the car constantly shows a 18 at all times. The fuel gauge dosnt work & I believe the temperature and oil pressure gauge are not correct also. Oil pressure shows high almost all the time and will bleed off to normal then sky rocket again. The temp gauge never went above 1/3 on the gauge granted it was 70°.

I did pick up the car for $2,000. It does run and drive and had a 30 min drive home at highway speeds. But would love some input and help on figuring it out and with the wires idk what are and are cut .

The powesteering pump leaks from the fitting. Is what the silicon is on there for which dosnt help so will be needing a new line or a fitting.

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[We're on Boost]

I thought you were supposed to adjust these with the the hose off and end pinched to about 40, then reconnect the hose.

Yeah, he's just using a higher fuel pressure because it seemed like it needed to be richer most of the time.

He said it has a eprom on the ecu which has dsmlink In the cable.

Yes this car has a gm MAF but not translator for it.

It sounds like it's got ECMlink and the ECMLink V3 GM MAF cable. Probably.
Well it's convenient that one car is an Eclipse and the other car is a Talon so we can talk about them and know which one we're talking about .
Your question about the shafts, I don't know.
BTW where did you get the motor for the window mechanism?

 

[awdtsi_90]

I got the motor from car parts.com. This weekend I will jack up the talon and see what's going on with the shaft. Maybe the bracket broke also or just a horrible cv shaft broke. I'm hoping it's not a transmission rebuild over the intermediate shaft thats needed.

Here is the video of me selling it 9 years ago

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[awdtsi_90]

Yesterday I replaced the ignition coil pack, wires, and plugs on the eclipse. Now the car will actually pull when into boost and dosnt really break up or stutter. It did it once but not sure what it was.The car drives so much better. There are still some issues that will arise i know but with it being old that's expected.

For the talon I ordered a new starter and clutch slave cylinder. I will go get new oil for it and try to get it fired up this weekend. Possibly attempt to replace the c.v.shaft but will atleast look as see if the bracket for bearing is broke or atleast get a better look and pics of it.

 

[We're on Boost]

Yesterday I replaced the ignition coil pack, wires, and plugs on the eclipse. Now the car will actually pull when into boost and dosnt really break up or stutter. It did it once but not sure what it was.The car drives so much better.

Good deal. What brand of coil pack did you end up getting for it?

 

[awdtsi_90]

They are standard motor products from rock auto. So this morning it was 26° with 18° real feel. The car would not start. It cranks but won't fire. Yesterday it fired right up instantly everytime. I tried to jump start the car this morning and no luck.

What could the culprit be.
1. Coolant temp sensor
2. Battery. it was replaced in 2022
3. clogged fuel filter?
4. Cam position sensor

today I am going to get w new coolant temp sensor and replace that.

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[We're on Boost]

They are standard motor products from rock auto. So this morning it was 26° with 18° real feel. The car would not start. It cranks but won't fire. Yesterday it fired right up instantly everytime. I tried to jump start the car this morning and no luck.

Last I knew you had the startup enrichment turned off. So I'd turn that back on for a first shot at it.

I cold started my car yesterday and the day before with coolant temp at 40 degrees per ECMlink.
My "Cranking Fuel Adjust" came in at 90% during cranking. A lot!

Glad you got the new parts. That corrosion on your old plug wire ends was pretty gross.
It makes me wonder if there is some other electrical connector in the ignition system or MAF system that is grossed out.
The connector on the power transistor was a problem on my car when we first got it. But you've had that plug off already I think? Because you knew it was a 5 pin job. It's a tricky connector with a wire that goes around it to "lock" it on. The plastic connector body on mine was broken by the PO and one of the female connectors in it was mangled very bad. So that wasn't really a corrosion problem, it was more mangling by humans. Anyway I had to make up an entirely new one with parts from BradS (Sheridan Engineering). https://connectors.sheridanengineering.com/JFC6P.htm
And that was a whole project in and of itself!

 

[awdtsi_90]

I replaced the coolant temp sensor, sprayed contact cleaner in the connector also. Here is the old one I pulled out. I also sanded down the battery terminals and the connections there.

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No I haven't had the power transistor out nor do I even know where it is . So far on the eclipse I have replaced wideband 02 sensor, fuel pressure regulator gauge, thermostat, ignition coil pack, spark plugs and wires, timing belt, tensioner, waterpump, coolant temp sensor

So tomorrow I'm expecting it to start and run good. I do need to get s lower thermostat tho. I have 170° one in it now

 

[We're on Boost]

I do need to get s lower thermostat tho.

A what thermostat?
A 180 degree would be good.
The factory manual for 1g actually says the stock thermostat is a 190 degree. Starts opening at 190 and is fully open at 212.
The factory manual for 2g gives different specs for turbo and non-turbo. For turbo it says 180 degree. Starts opening at 180 and is fully open at 203.
As far as I know, most 1g folks go with a 180. That's what I am using.

On Monday I shot a video of a cold startup on my car showing the wideband, ECMlink, and the stock instrument panel. I think it might help you in a couple ways. Even though my car is not "perfect" it does go into closed loop at 88 degrees in a very obvious way that you can see on the wideband and hear in the motor. And you will see how rich it is for about the first minute.
I want to cook up a new channel first though and I have to remember or refigure how to do that.
When you post a video on the DSMtuners channel, can you go back into it later to edit what is in the Description field? (You would see an Edit button on the video page I think, if you could edit it). I don't want to post a video where I can't write the description field or edit it later.

 

[We're on Boost]

Ok I made a new channel and put that cold start video in there.

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Lots of things you could notice in this. How rich it gets for a little while just after the start.
Then when it hits 88 degrees it switches to closed loop and the wideband lunges off to the right and the engine revs come down a few hundred. From there the AFR is in the stoic range, in the 14's. Hopefully we will see your car do something like this at some point.
I have notes in the description about why the cranking fuel adjust shows 0 (it's not) and why the wideband in DSMlink shows 19.5 (it's not).
The stock temperature gauge doesn't even move until coolant temp is about 130.
My car makes even more unauthorized noises than yours does

 

[awdtsi_90]

Here is a video showing while the car is up to temp the idle is about 14.5. On throttle it goes to 12.3 and will stay there which is pretty rich but safer then lean. When I am just cruising tho the afr is still high 17 to low 18. I'm so stumped and confused because at cruise speed it should be 15 right? The car did start up just fine this morning. Granted it was also twice as warm tho. Today was 37° with real feel at 37° yesterday was 26° with real feel at 18°

At start up the afr is 12ish untill its warmed up

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[We're on Boost]

The car did start up just fine this morning. Granted it was also twice as warm tho.

Was that with startup enrichment turned on or off?

Here is a video showing while the car is up to temp the idle is about 14.5. On throttle it goes to 12.3 and will stay there which is pretty rich but safer then lean. When I am just cruising tho the afr is still high 17 to low 18. I'm so stumped and confused because at cruise speed it should be 15 right?

Yeah, cruising, at least at low speed like 50mph or so, it should be somewhere in the 14's (stoic).
It looks like your warm idle AFR is in the 14's and that is good. We don't really know if that's a result of being in closed loop, or if it is just what the basic map gives you at that condition. If we could watch the AFR gauge continuously for about a minute or 2 while it is warm idling, we should see it cycling back and forth between about 14 and about 15 in a regular way. That's what it should do if it is in closed loop.
A better way would be if we could watch the voltage that is coming from your narrow band O2 sensor. Because the narrow band sensors have a much more definite swing in voltage. They will swing between 0 and about 0.8 volts, back and forth, if you are in closed loop. They put out about 0 volts if your AFR is above 15.5 and they put out about 0.8 volts if your AFR is below 13.5.
So this would give us some confirmation on the accuracy of your wideband.

If you don't have ECMlink, the cheapest way I can think of to watch your narrow band O2 voltage is to hook up a cheap panel meter to the white wire that goes to pin #4 on your ecu. The meter could probably be the one I mentioned in post #90, the analog panel meter 0 to 1 volt, which only costs $5.99 !! The + wire from the meter would "T" into your white wire that goes to #4 on the ecu. The - wire on the meter would just go to any metal that is grounded. I just now ordered one of these for myself because I want to fool around with it a little to make sure it works ok. I have other (higher) voltage ranges of this meter and they are fine. I'll post the ECU pinout map further down.

Cruising at AFR of 17-18 is strange and it shouldn't do that. But I might have been a little over-stated about it back when I said it shouldn't even run at 18. I'm surprised it sounds as good as it does cruising at 18, but an engine can run at 18 . I've just never seen it in practice on my car and I know the plan for cars with OBD1 in the 90's was for them to run at stoic during cruise and idle, and they would only go leaner when you lift off the gas (decel). But checking with the small aircraft guys - they've had manual mixture controls on gasoline engine airplanes for longer than any of us have been alive - and the old carb engine guys looking for max fuel economy, they can run LOP (Lean Of Peak) at light cruise, apparently.
AFR strictly for mileage

ECU pinout, so you can find pin #4:

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[We're on Boost]

You might have an exhaust leak where the exhaust manifold bolts to the head.
The gasket there could be partly blown out, or loose studs.
The pressure inside an exhaust runner is not always positive. It will be negative for part of a cycle, especially at low loads.
So if there is a leak there it will pull in air and that air will go past your sensors. That would make your wideband read leaner than what is really going on in the combustion chamber.
I'm not sure what a good test is to look for a leak like that if it isn't an obvious leak.

 

[awdtsi_90]

I have turned off the start up enrichment and that's with it off. This weekend I will tighten them if they are loose or I will find out if they are loose . Today has been a long day so I haven't been able to really do anything related to the car. Thank you for the video!

 

[We're on Boost]

Just want to post a pic of the GM MAF Cable that ECMtuning used to sell. Since your Talon might have one on it, it would be helpful to know what one looks like so you could recognize it when you see it!

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No I haven't had the power transistor out nor do I even know where it is .

Also a shot of page 11-18 from the 1991 factory manual that Steve pointed you to in your shaft thread. This page shows where the Power Transistor is (#23 in the diagram). You must have seen it when replacing the coil pack. It's bolted to the intake manifold on the driver's side end of it. The thick wire clip that locks the electrical connector onto it is really a pain. I have a whole page of notes that I wrote to myself about how to deal with it, which I wrote up when I had all new parts to look at that were clean and not broken.
Basically it's this:
"To take the plug off the transistor without breaking anything you have to lift each end of the wire clip a little bit. It’s at each end where the wire latches onto a little plastic tooth on the transistor plastic body.
You’ll probably just pop the wire off entirely, then it flys off and you lose it forever. That's why these connectors are zip tied on sometimes.
To refit the wire back onto the plug is pretty tricky. You have to put the plug on about half way. In that position the 2 little plastic teeth (on the transistor body) will hold the wire ends out far enough that you can slip the wire back on all the way. Then you can take the plug back off or push it on all the way. If you take the plug back off without pushing it in any farther, the wire clip will stay in the correct “ready” position like it is when you buy the plug new. If you push it on all the way, the wire clip will come down in back of the 2 little plastic teeth and then it is locked on."
Lovely

BTW these pdf files are searchable for text. In the free version of Adobe Acrobat Reader you search in a blank called "Find text".

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[awdtsi_90]

the talon dose for sure have dsmlink in it

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I didn't see it at all. I saw this attached to the ignition coil pack

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[We're on Boost]

the talon dose for sure have dsmlink in it

Awesome! If you don't have the basic cable for it (goes from the Diagnostic port to USB) I'm pretty sure you can just buy a new one from ECMtuning and plug it in.

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I didn't see it at all. I saw this attached to the ignition coil pack

Yeah that is the tach drive which is on the 1990 coil packs (not on the 1991-94). Your new coil pack should have that same thing on it, although it might say "Hyundai" on it instead of "Mitsubishi".

When you say "didn't see it at all" do you mean the Power Transistor?
I added some more to my post #116 after your last 2 posts, so take another look at that.

 

[awdtsi_90]

on the eclipse I am missing a bolt on the intermediate shaft hanger

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yes the power transistor. I didn't see it. but also can't see to well in there

 

[We're on Boost]

yes the power transistor. I didn't see it. but also can't see to well in there

Oh man. It's possible a PO might have relocated it. But normally that only happens when there is a non-stock intake manifold on it, and yours still has the regular 1g intake manifold.
It might be unbolted from the intake manifold and just hanging from the harness somewhere down there. That would be pretty ugly. Or zip tied to something nearby. Maybe the black plastic transistor module was unscrewed from the steel backing plate that it comes on and the module is just hangin' around under there somewhere.
It would be a really good idea to find it because it might be taking some hellish torture and you don't even know it.
My tachometer "noise filter" was loose under there (it's supposed to be bolted to the "stay") and I never found it all these years until just last year with a lot of help from @19Eclipse90.
That noise filter is a small thing though and it's got that same grayish corrosion on it that all the other metal has on it down there. So it's camouflaged. The power transistor module is black plastic, and when it is unscrewed from the steel base plate you'll see it is metal underneath (for heat transfer to the steel base plate).
I would look for the 3 standoffs on the intake manifold that are there for the power transistor to bolt to. If they don't have anything bolted to them, then you have to go on a hunt for the darn thing.

 

[We're on Boost]

I bought one of those little 0 to 1 volt panel meters and measured the resistance of it. It's only 1000 ohms. That's awful low. The O2 sensors are probably intended to go into a resistance of 10,000 ohms or more. A 1000 ohm meter might drag down the voltage of the sensor and give you invalid readings. You would probably need a fancier meter to watch the O2 voltage, and such a meter would cost as much or more than just buying a new O2 sensor ($50 for the NTK).

You have the ECU in the other car now though, and that has ECMlink in it. You could try putting that ecu into the Eclipse. If the eclipse will run on it, you could see what the O2 voltage is doing by logging. Don't know what kind of settings are in that ecu. It might have to be fiddled with to get the Eclipse running on it. Sounds like a whole other project !

Back on the volt meter idea, for $55 you can get a slightly better digital meter than the one I suggested in post #90. The $55 meter is a Klein MM400. On this meter you can turn off the auto-ranging. With auto-ranging off, you could probably actually watch the O2 voltages go up and down if you were reading the O2 sensor wire with it. (Otherwise the auto-ranging just makes a mess on the screen). Also it can measure frequencies but the manual is pretty vague about the limitations (voltage sensitivity and zero crossing) so it might or might not work for reading frequencies from your MAF. There's somebody in here who might know. And then you'd have a meter for everything else you might need a meter for! This meter has an input impedence of 10 million ohms on the voltage scales which is plenty good. It does not have an analog type bar graph display option. Probably no multimeter under $100 has that.
Klein MM400 multimeter

Anyway it should help to have closed loop working because then your fuel trims will work, and that might be enough to solve some of the problems with the Eclipse.

 

[awdtsi_90]

This eclipse developed a tick in the mornings when I start it and it goes away after a few seconds or min. I am pretty sure it's thr lifter tick. Will it hurt anything or just be noisy?

 

[We're on Boost]

This eclipse developed a tick in the mornings when I start it and it goes away after a few seconds or min. I am pretty sure it's thr lifter tick. Will it hurt anything or just be noisy?

Man I don't know it could be either. Probably should get a video of it so people can hear it.

 

[awdtsi_90]

The talon got started. New battery, new oil. new oil filter, new coolant ,& the cylinders had fogging oil in them for 4 days before started

once it was started It sounded rough & smoke was coming out of the hood & a check engine light so I shut it off and went to look and noticed this pipe is broken/cracked/ a hole in it.

That is the 02 housing that I need to replace correct?

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[awdtsi_90]

Just ordered this

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[awdtsi_90]

Also that cracked 02 housing will cause it to sound horrible, check engine light on and not want to run won't it.

 

[We're on Boost]

once it was started It sounded rough & smoke was coming out of the hood & a check engine light so I shut it off and went to look and noticed this pipe is broken/cracked/ a hole in it.

That is the 02 housing that I need to replace correct?

On the Talon, yes replacing the cracked O2 housing is more or less necessary. The one you ordered should be good as long as it fits! It sure looks nice.
As far as the smoke and rough running, it might just have been the engine burning off the fogging oil. The check engine light, I don't know, I wouldn't be surprised if you still get a check engine light even with the new O2 housing and after burning off all the fogging oil.
On the fogging oil, I use a fogging oil every year to winterize my outboard motor, which is a 2-stroke. In the spring when I start it up the first time it makes a huge cloud of smoke, and it takes maybe 5 minutes or more to burn it off. It runs a little rough for the first 30 seconds or so but not bad after that. Since it's a 2-stroke, you fog the crankcase while the engine is running (through the carburetor) when you winterize, then stop the engine and fog the cylinders through the spark plug holes. So it's a little different than fogging a 4-stroke where you just fog the cylinders, and maybe that's why it takes so long to burn it off in the outboard.
Anyway I would think your smoke would be from the fogging oil. Not so sure about the rough running and the check engine light.
Glad it started!