1G Just bought another DSM after 12 years

[awdtsi_90]

I live in Wichita Kansas. If there are any fellow DSM people around or in Wichita I would love some help.

This car is a 1990 Eclipse GSX with 180,000. It has a 16g turbo, MAF translator. It also has a front mount intercooler & fuel pressure regulator that is always maxed out on the gauge, even when the car is off. I was told it would never move regardless on the adjustment. Supposed to be a aftermarket fuel pump wired but not sure on what the pump or injectors are. The wide band gauge in the car constantly shows a 18 at all times. The fuel gauge dosnt work & I believe the temperature and oil pressure gauge are not correct also. Oil pressure shows high almost all the time and will bleed off to normal then sky rocket again. The temp gauge never went above 1/3 on the gauge granted it was 70°.

I did pick up the car for $2,000. It does run and drive and had a 30 min drive home at highway speeds. But would love some input and help on figuring it out and with the wires idk what are and are cut .

The powesteering pump leaks from the fitting. Is what the silicon is on there for which dosnt help so will be needing a new line or a fitting.

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Shop is currently booked thru March at least but thank you very much! My stuff keeps getting in the way of other stuff. Somehow I am into another 509 casting SBC teardown and put back together all while trying to get my engine built too (and don't forget to go to work too).

 

[awdtsi_90]

I would of loved it if you would of been able to be the one who dose the job but i understand being busy. Is there anybody else in this area that you guys could recommend.

 

[We're on Boost]

Shop is currently booked thru March

Aw bummer but I guess we sorta knew you were awful busy!

 

[awdtsi_90]

I am calling tomorow to get the car scheduled for timing belt & waterpump. I was looking today and the Injectors are blue. here is a pic I took of them but it isn't very good. I did get new seats for $200 tho to replace the ones In there. here are the old ones are leather with the new ones being cloth

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I got a better pic and the numbers are INP-009 With 89x uptop. I did research and those are the stock 450 I believe

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For my radio unit. I will put the red wire on the head unit harness to the blue wire on the cars wiring harness to power up the unit right. My wideband gauge is using the blue wire already so can't i just splice Into it also?

Then I will put the yellow wire on the radio harness to the black wire for constant power right.

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[We're on Boost]

I am not trying to make anymore power.

Ok, that should make it a little easier.

I did get new seats for $200

Those cloth seats are nice seats if they are in pretty good condition. That's what's in my car and I like them. I've never been tempted to go buy any aftermarket seats.

I got a better pic and the numbers are INP-009 With 89x uptop. I did research and those are the stock 450 I believe

Yeah that is exactly what they look like. I just took pics for comparison of a stock original 450cc that I took out of my car in 2009.
It says 450 on the other side from the side you shot.
Where yours has 89X mine has 897. Don't know what that means if anything. But if you can see the other side of yours you should see 450 there. 2 Pics below.

Which model of MAF Translator is in your car? There was Gen I, Gen II, and Translator Pro, as far as I know.

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[awdtsi_90]

I do not know what Gen it is. I would assume it is gen1 because it was from 2002. Tomorrow I will open it up and take a pic of the settings that are on it.

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[We're on Boost]

Tomorrow I will open it up and take a pic of the settings that are on it.

Yes the settings, good. That's what we need to look at first. You should keep a record of what the settings are so you could go back to them if needed.
That model is one that I have a manual for, so I looked at it a bit just now. I'll attach the pdf file for it here at the bottom of the post in case you don't have the manual.

The GM MAF is a good maf and having it in blow-through configuration like you have it is probably the best way to use it on our cars, although I don't think it was designed that way by GM. I remember reading in the past that some of the knock-off copies of the GM maf were not good, but the actual GM part is good if it's not messed up. I had a 3" actual GM MAF on my car, but I never had the MAF Translator like what you have. So I'm going to see if I can make some sense out of the manual.

In the manual it looks like the "Mode Switch" is what you use to pick the MAF that you have.
Then you use the "Aux/Base" table in Appendix A to set your injector size and whether you have a 1g or a 2g ECU. In that table it looks like Aux=0 and Base=2 should be your settings.
Those settings should set it properly for translating your MAF to a 1g ECU.

 

[awdtsi_90]

So if my fuel pressure is set to 40 psi without the vacuum on, my MAF is set to 450cc injectors and my afr is still high. what could that be?!?!? Would it just be a boost leak like in the intercooler piping? Afr should be arpund 14.3 at idle with car warmed up. what should the afr be at idle on a cold start?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

12's and works up to 14.7ish

 

[We're on Boost]

what should the afr be at idle on a cold start?

Yeah, around 12 for several seconds right after the cold start.

So if my fuel pressure is set to 40 psi without the vacuum on, my MAF is set to 450cc injectors and my afr is still high. what could that be?!?!? Would it just be a boost leak like in the intercooler piping?

Well yeah it could be an air leak somewhere between the MAF and the cylinder head.
Or it could be cloggy injectors. Or fuel filter. Or clogged sock on the fuel pump inlet.
Or it could be some setting in the Translator.
Can you get pics or something of all the settings in the Translator?
For instance, I notice in the manual there is a Mode switch setting that says "3 - turn ON to enable startup enrichment".
Most of these things are not shown very well in the manual so I'm kind of flying blind as to how you see it on the actual Translator.
The MAF could be bad. Can you see real-time what the "Hz out" to the ECU is? Most of us have logs from when we were still using a stock 1g MAF, so we can get a rough idea what the MAF Hz is at certain conditions of load and speed. There might be some kind of electrical test for the GM MAF, would be something to look for at some point.

There's also a slim possibility that your ECU is not stock. Maybe the PO had it modified by DSMChips or somebody else.
If your ECU is not an EPROM, then I don't think it could have been modified.
But if it's an EPROM, it could be modified. ECM tuning has a web page that shows side-by-side pics of a non-eprom 1g ecu and an eprom 1g ecu, here: http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/epromid

And here is a shot of a 1g ecu with a DSMChips chip in it. Sticker on top of the chip gives some of the basic specs. It's a 1994 eprom ecu that was modified by DSMchips for 1990 use:

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[awdtsi_90]

Here is a pic of the settings. So under load when I am actually under boost my afr is down to arpund 13.9- 14.3. But when I am at idle or just cruising it is bouncing from high 17 to 18.

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The car is at the shop getting the water pump and timing belt done. When I get it back I will open up the ecu and see if it had dsmlink. I am really hoping it dose!!! Fingers crossed boys

 

[We're on Boost]

So under load when I am actually under boost my afr is down to arpund 13.9- 14.3. But when I am at idle or just cruising it is bouncing from high 17 to 18.

If those AFR numbers are accurate, they are all too lean.
In the video though, the car sounds like it's running ok! I'm surprised. AFR of 18 while cruising down the road? Seems like the car would be barely running, running noticeably bad.
How does it seem to you? Did it seem like it was running bad when you shot that video?

This is where it's nice to have a log of the regular narrow band (stock) oxygen sensor. If the car was really running at any AFR over about 15.5, the narrow band voltage would be just laying there at 0 volts. At around 14.5 or 14.7 it would be cycling up and down (closed loop). And at any AFR under about 14.0 the narrow band voltage would stay high, like around 0.8 volts about. So it's a little bit of a check on your wideband.

Here is a pic of the settings.

Your shot of the knobs and switches in there is about 1000% better than what they show in the manual. Good job.
Anyway, I'm going to try to digest that a little more later tonight.
Good luck with the timing belt replacement!

 

[awdtsi_90]

the car did idle surge today when I get off the throttle and push the clutch in like at a stoplight but then settles down. I am really hoping the car has dsmlink because that will help figure out and actually get it running amazing I feel like. I am so unsure about the afr tho being so lean.

If I turn up the fuel pressure the afr goes down at idle but I don't want that, so I was thinking about maybe turning up the injector size to get the afr down. When I got thr car the setting was at 0 for Injector size with the fuel pressure at 60. I lowered the fuel pressure and the afr went up. Because of that if I turn up thr Injectors size that will lower the afr down at idle and cruise right?

Do I need to have one of those 4 little switches flipped on the bottom left flipped up?

After looking at it I need to turn my base dial to 2 and turn my idle up for more fuel at idle. What are the MID & WOT set at? is 0 ok?!?!? Thank you guys

 

[We're on Boost]

the car did idle surge today when I get off the throttle and push the clutch in like at a stoplight but then settles down

The ecu can make corrections of up to about 20% in the fuel in closed loop to get the thing closer to stoic (mid 14's).
So that might be why it settles down in that situation.

Because of that if I turn up thr Injectors size that will lower the afr down at idle and cruise right?

No it's opposite of that. If you tell it the injectors are bigger, it will reduce the injector duty cycle. You'd be getting less fuel.
Here's how it says that in the manual:
"To lean out the fuel curve, set the AUX/BASE to a larger injector size. To richen the fuel curve,
set the AUX/BASE to a smaller injector size."
You've already got it set to a 440cc injector size (BASE=1)
The only choice smaller is a 430cc injector size (BASE=0)
You could set it to that 430cc setting and get the AFR down a tiny amount. It's not going to do much though. That's only a change of about 2% from where you are now!

MID and WOT at 0 should be ok if everything was working right but something is pretty far off. So I'm going to suggest changing those dials further down the page. Would be worth it to see what happens.

Do I need to have one of those 4 little switches flipped on the bottom left flipped up?

Those are the MODE switches.
It should be good with all 4 of them down (off).
Your MODE switches 1 and 2 are both OFF which is correct for a 3" GM MAF.
I think that's what you have but you should measure the MAF! I have a genuine GM 3" MAF sitting right here that I can measure for comparison.
Flipping the 3rd one up would turn on startup enrichment and that might make starts better. But that isn't going to fix the actual problem either.
The 4th switch you are supposed to leave down (OFF) until you are done with all the AUX and BASE stuff, and we aren't done with the AUX and BASE stuff yet. Leaving this switch down keeps you in what they call MAF mode. In MAF mode you can richen the mixture up to 35%. And that is just about the amount you need right now, I think!

So, right now your 3 dials for Idle, Mid, and WOT are set like this:
Idle = 3 (makes it 15% richer at idle)
Mid = 0 (doesn't change anything)
WOT = 0 (doesn't change anything)

I think you should set all 3 of those dials up a big chunk, like to 20% or 25%.
20% would be:
Idle = 4
Mid = 4
WOT = 4

You should see a radical change in the AFR's on your wideband! Keep Mode switch #4 down for all this. It has to be down to change any of these MAF Mode settings.
Here's the chart where I got the setting of 4 for a 20% increase:

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This might not do it quite right, so be careful trying it out!

 

[awdtsi_90]

So when I get the car back I will turn the base down 1 for a smaller injector size to improve the fuel delivery then turn up the idle to 4 maybe 5 and see where its at.

The MId & WOT if I turned it up to 4 would throw 20% more fuel in it right? was my afr to lean also or is that just to get more fuel across the entire rpm range to be safe with not being to lean?

Sorry for the ?'s and being a noob . I am trying. Thank you very much for taking time and helping me!!! This car needs alot more work then I thought or else I would of prolly passed up on it, but now I gotta get it running good and right for my daily driver

Here is what the fuel pump wiring looks like also.

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[We're on Boost]

So when I get the car back I will turn the base down 1 for a smaller injector size to improve the fuel delivery then turn up the idle to 4 maybe 5 and see where its at.

Yup.

The MId & WOT if I turned it up to 4 would throw 20% more fuel in it right? was my afr to lean also or is that just to get more fuel across the entire rpm range to be safe with not being to lean?

Yes, 20% more fuel. Your AFR did look very lean to me but it's hard to tell because I don't know what load you are at second by second in the video. By load I mean basically the amount of power the engine needs to make at the moment. More airflow.
It looks to me like you need a lot more fuel at every load.
In the end we might find that there is some problem somewhere that needs to be fixed and that it's not really a matter of working around it with the Translator. Tracking those other problems down is a lot easier when you can log a whole bunch of stuff like you can with ECMLink. But trying some changes with the Translator settings is easy so we can try that first, and we'll probably learn some things from it even if it doesn't actually fix the problem.
Setting the Translator to run more fuel (richer) should be fairly safe.

The diagram called "MAFT BASE tuning" that they show on page 2 of the manual bothers me. The way they drew it, it looks like the idle, Mid, and WOT dials won't change anything in the region between MAF Hz 88 and 180. But they do a lousy job of explaining it, so I'm not sure.
Just to give you an idea of what driving conditions that Hz range covers, I've looked at some of my old logs from when I still had a 1g MAF on the car, and I was logging with ECU+ so I have a record of Hz and lots of other stuff.
So here's a couple of data points for that:
Cruising steady speed at about 43 mph in 3rd gear = 200 Hz about.
Wow that's already above 180 and that is really a light load, it takes hardly any power to cruise at 43 mph.
Cruising steady speed at about 64 mph in 4th gear = 290 Hz about.

Anyway, when you change the settings on the Idle, Mid, and WOT dials, you might not notice any AFR difference when you are at very light load conditions. You might only see different AFR at loads above or below that range of 88 to 180 Hz.

Sorry for the ?'s and being a noob . I am trying. Thank you very much for taking time and helping me!!! This car needs alot more work then I thought or else I would of prolly passed up on it, but now I gotta get it running good and right for my daily driver

That's ok. I can do this on things that I know something about. There's lots of other areas that I don't know much about so I usually pass on those things.

 

[awdtsi_90]

I got the car back from the shop with new timing belt& water pump. The settings are now: base is at 0, Idle is at 4, MId is at 1, WOT is at 0. My afr seem way better but the car dose not want to stay running at idle now. it has a very low idle and will stumble and die. I even put the settings back but it still didn't want to idle good so I kept the settings tere because thr afr was way lower and not so lean. On my way home I was under good amount of throttle and the car sneezed/ hiccuped and I am assuming that's me running out of fuel pressure and hitting fuel cut but that was also before i made these final settings. i did drove the car after this and it seems so much better, its just the idle. . Hopefully the car will learn the settings and the idle will get better. I will take a video of it tomorrow and post it. this weekend I am switching out seats and will look at the ecu and let's pray it has dsmlink!!!! Also maybe switch out window motor cuz it needs done.

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Why would the ecu be opened up if it didn't have dsmlink?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

To see if it has link. A RED chip with writing on it.

 

[awdtsi_90]

I just had to move the car and still extremely rough idle but thr afr is 16.2 at idle

I was meaning what other purpose would be for the ecu to have been opened up in the past if it dosnt end up having link. I will look this weekend. I need it to have it to help figure out what's going on, then to get the car running good and healthy. Im not looking for more power either. just a daily driver. Thank you again everyone!

 

[We're on Boost]

I just had to move the car and still extremely rough idle but thr afr is 16.2 at idle

16.2 is too high, too lean.
AFR needs to be between 14.0 and 14.7 to have a good idle. So try turning the Idle dial up from 4 to 5 or 6.

On my way home I was under good amount of throttle and the car sneezed/ hiccuped and I am assuming that's me running out of fuel pressure and hitting fuel cut but that was also before i made these final settings.

It wouldn't be hitting actual "fuel cut". But it could easily be that it was going too lean due to any of the reasons we've been talking about - injectors, fuel pump, wiring, etc.
Actual fuel cut happens when your MAF Hz gets to right around 2,000 Hz. At that point the stock ECU says nope, not going to let you go any higher! Usually a 1g with a stock downpipe won't hit fuel cut. For most people, the first time they hit fuel cut is after they put on a 3" downpipe (yours looks stock) and a 3" exhaust system after the downpipe, and take off the cat.

Here is what the fuel pump wiring looks like also.

In that video, I don't think that's a capacitor. It looks more like a wire nut. That would be to just to connect the red wire that's coming back from the cabin to the red wire that goes the rest of the way to all that wiring where the fuel pump is.
The black connector that you picked up at 0:14 in the video is the stock wiring to the fuel pump and it looks like it's connected.
All the other wiring that's kind of hovering around over the fuel pump is added on stuff. Usually the reason for added on stuff right there is a fuel pump "rewire". If it's a rewire, one of those things there should be a relay. And maybe that red wire that comes in there is the power that gets switched by the relay to the pump. Hard to tell, it's a little messy there!

I was meaning what other purpose would be for the ecu to have been opened up in the past if it dosnt end up having link.

Usually the reason is to replace the capacitors that leak when they are old. Usually people who know about it will replace those capacitors preemptively, before they ruin the circuit board.

 

[awdtsi_90]

the noise your hearing in the video is the hood rattling. It has hoodpins and someone cut a brace under the hood so there is a flap that bounces. I am going to have it tack welded to stop the noise.

So on cold startup the afr is about 14-15. Just cruising its still 17 but the min I get on the throttle it jumps down to 13.2-14.7. When I got to work the idle afr was 17.8-18.7 once the car was fully warmed up.

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Just to clarify the noise is not the motor, when the hood is up you don't hear none of that. It's from the hood rattling like crazy

 

[We're on Boost]

In the cold start video - AFR is about 15, that's too lean if you are showing that during the first 60 seconds after cranking. It should be more like 12 in the first 20 seconds or so. After 30 or 40 seconds it should be about 13.
Mulvane KS, your overnight low temps are in the low 50's right now. That's the same as here. So it's pretty comparable.
When my coolant temp is 57 deg F during cold cranking it takes about 70 seconds for the coolant temp to come up to 88 deg.
As soon as it hits 88 deg it goes into closed loop and that's when it starts idling at about 14.5 AFR.

2nd video (cruise at 45mph) - When you are not accelerating the AFR is 17 and that is too high for cruise at 45 mph. It should be in closed loop at that load. If the narrow band O2 sensor is working and if the ECU is ok, it should be in closed loop there and the AFR would be right in the mid 14's (stoic).

From 0:05 to 0:09 in the video you are accelerating lightly. I can't tell how light. But if it is very light it should still be stoic (14's). If it is a little heavier it should go lower like yours does, to about 13 which yours does, or even lower if the accel is more heavy or WOT. At full WOT accel in the middle or high end of the rev range the AFR should go down to about 11.
So your 13 there is good if the acceleration is light.

But I'm suspicious now that your car never seems to go into closed loop.
So maybe your narrow band O2 sensor is dead or has a bad connector or something.
The ECT sensor needs to be good too in order for your car to run right and go into closed loop. That is the temperature sensor that sends temp data to the ecu. That's the one we showed as #2 in the pics in post #18. There is a test for the ECT sensor. You would need a multimeter that can measure ohms to do it. But you wouldn't necessarily need to take the sensor out to run the test. I mean you can run an approximate test without taking the sensor out. You mainly just need a $30 multimeter. You can buy a new ECT sensor, a good one (NTK) for $10 plus shipping from Rock Auto. It would be an NTK EF0099.

3rd video, fully warmed up idle - AFR of 18 is too high. It should be stoic (14's).
I notice on your gauges the temp is lower than what that gauge normally shows on these cars. I wonder if your car doesn't have a thermostat in it?
Good job with the videos!

 

[awdtsi_90]

I just put a new thermostat in it. I am pretty much dead with working on the car untill this weekend when I do the seats and pull out the ecu to see if it has dsmlink. On payday I will get a new temp sensor of the part number you gave me. Thank you very much man. I greatly appreciate you.

also, I have turned up the dials so the dead o2 sensor like u said would be a culprit wouldn't it? I don't know so I am asking because I did replace one o2 sensor but not the other one. So maybe that one needs to be replaced also but wouldn't it throw the check engine light if it was bad? I am just hoping the car has dsmlink and the person didn't really know how to tune and is what the issue is .

Culprits could be:
1. dead 02 sensor
2. Dirty injector/ fuel filter
3. Air leak/vacume leak
4. Tuning issue on ecm

If I am missing something please lmk. Also I belive the thermostat that inout in was a 170° one because that's all they had in stock

 

[We're on Boost]

Your car should run decent just on the basic fuel map without any help from the O2 sensor. That would be with no closed loop operation.
Closed loop is just to get very clean operation at light throttle after the engine is warmed up.
Everything else is done in open loop (the engine doesn't pay any attention to the O2 sensor).
So cold starts are done open loop, and accelerating medium to heavy are done in open loop.
So even if your O2 sensor is dead, we should be able to get your car running a lot better than it is.

So I think you should try turning the Idle dial up farther before ordering a new narrow band O2 sensor. To 5 or 6 or 7. Take some video of that if you can, like your other videos. If that doesn't make any change then there's something wrong that a new O2 sensor isn't going to fix, I think.
After trying it with the Idle dial turned up, you could try it with the Mid dial turned up too, and the Idle still up.

As for the check engine light and codes, I see your CEL on in the first and third videos (both idling) but not the one driving down the road.
Have you tried checking codes on the car? It would be good to check the codes. They get cleared I think when you disconnect the car battery so don't check them right after having the battery disconnected.
If you haven't checked codes before on an OBD1 car like this, we can go over how to do it. First you gotta find your diagnostic port!
There is a code that covers the stock O2 sensor, it is code 11. But the way I read it, it only throws a code if there is an open or short circuit in the O2 sensor. I think the O2 sensor could be bad or weak in some other way and not throw a code.

If you come to replacing the ECT sensor (temp) you have to be careful taking off the electrical connector because it is latched on! Sometimes it's really hard to see how the latch works when they are all dirty and old. You might even find that yours is broken already from a previous person trying to take it off. So take some time with that, sometime when the engine is not hot! I can send you a pic of how the latch works on mine if you need it.
Also the pipe threads on a new ECT sensor, they need to be sealed with a pipe thread sealant. Not a thread locker! A sealant. I always use anaerobic pipe thread sealants because I think they are better than RTV or teflon tape. So I use Loctite 567 usually, or 565. Both are ridiculous expensive. I'm noticing that you can get Permatex 59214 in tiny little tubes for about $7. Loctite 592 is the same product (I think). They are also anaerobic and I think they would be very similar to Loctite 567 and 565 so should be good. The shelf life of these thread sealants is only maybe 3 or 4 years and you use only a tiny amount, so there's no point in having a large tube of it.
Tightening torque on the ECT sensor into the thermostat housing is supposed to be in the range 14 to 29 ft-lbs, which you can kind of estimate probably.

If you can give me a part number for the new O2 sensor that you got a few days ago I will look it up just to be sure we know what it is.

Your engine seems to get into a proper AFR when you are accelerating lightly. We don't know yet what it does in more heavy accel. The ignition system seems to be working ok. I guess I don't know how the cold starts are. Anyway, seems not too far away from being pretty good overall.

Here are the real 1990 diagnostic codes for the 1990 GSX, straight from the 1990 factory manual:

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[awdtsi_90]

well the car jumped timing this morning. The shop is having the car towed to look at it and see if it's something they did. Which is has to be . They did the timing job. I supplied the timing belt kit from gates.

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This morning it sounded like glass & marbles. It was fine lastnight. Went to start it this morning and thats when i heard the glass & marbles sound.

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