1G Just bought another DSM after 12 years

[awdtsi_90]

I live in Wichita Kansas. If there are any fellow DSM people around or in Wichita I would love some help.

This car is a 1990 Eclipse GSX with 180,000. It has a 16g turbo, MAF translator. It also has a front mount intercooler & fuel pressure regulator that is always maxed out on the gauge, even when the car is off. I was told it would never move regardless on the adjustment. Supposed to be a aftermarket fuel pump wired but not sure on what the pump or injectors are. The wide band gauge in the car constantly shows a 18 at all times. The fuel gauge dosnt work & I believe the temperature and oil pressure gauge are not correct also. Oil pressure shows high almost all the time and will bleed off to normal then sky rocket again. The temp gauge never went above 1/3 on the gauge granted it was 70°.

I did pick up the car for $2,000. It does run and drive and had a 30 min drive home at highway speeds. But would love some input and help on figuring it out and with the wires idk what are and are cut .

The powesteering pump leaks from the fitting. Is what the silicon is on there for which dosnt help so will be needing a new line or a fitting.

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[pauleyman]

I gotta ask, why on earth would you try and start it?

 

[awdtsi_90]

The second I heard the noise I stopped it and it wasn't started after that.

When I went to move the car lastnight it was 100% fine. Went this morning to leave for work and that's when I heard the noise and I turned it off as soon as I heard it. The car was not started again after that

 

[We're on Boost]

Well that's a bummer.
Wait are you sure it skipped a tooth?
If you rotate the crankshaft clockwise (the normal direction) with a wrench, the mark on the left (exhaust) wheel will move down and the mark on the right (intake) wheel will move up. Won't they line right up then?
So I don't think the noises you heard would have been the valves running into the pistons.
Really the belt doesn't even look that loose to me. I think my belt has been that loose before with no problem. I think my belt has been looser than that without any problem.

Here's the diagram of how everything should line up there. From the factory manual.
As the diagram shows, those 2 marks should even line up with the top surface of the cylinder head for another check.

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[pauleyman]

The second I heard the noise I stopped it and it wasn't started after that.

When I went to move the car lastnight it was 100% fine. Went this morning to leave for work and that's when I heard the noise and I turned it off as soon as I heard it. The car was not started again after that

I misread that. I thought it jumped time at night and then next morning you tried to start. My apologies.

 

[awdtsi_90]

just got the car back from the shop. it did jump timing 1 tooth. Car runs and drives good again. Now back to the original issues

 

[pauleyman]

well the car jumped timing this morning. The shop is having the car towed to look at it and see if it's something they did. Which is has to be . They did the timing job. I supplied the timing belt kit from gates.

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This morning it sounded like glass & marbles. It was fine lastnight. Went to start it this morning and thats when i heard the glass & marbles sound.

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That's a bunch of teeth. Betting there are bent valves especially considering the noise. You won't know until you test or take it apart

I'm shocked. I would made them show me the tensioner setting. This is my all time 100% biggest pet peeve on dsms is mechanics who get this wrong. Happened to me a week ago. Son lives in another town and I couldn't help him. Shop did it and screwed up balance shafts.

 

[We're on Boost]

just got the car back from the shop. it did jump timing 1 tooth. Car runs and drives good again. Now back to the original issues

Well, good I guess!
So they said it did skip one tooth? Ok, yeah, I mean I've been looking at the 2nd picture in post #51 and I could believe that is a skip of 1 tooth.
In the 1st picture in post #51 the dowels aren't up so you can't tell much from it, except it's another look at how tight the belt is.
I'm still a little puzzled why the belt doesn't look that loose in post #51 though.
Is the belt noticeably tighter now?

There've been cases where people have discovered their engine running skipped one tooth on the timing belt, and no damage, no noises.
As far as I know that's the norm - that a skip of one tooth won't normally cause damage.
Have to wonder what the noises were that you heard.

 

[awdtsi_90]

yes the belt is together and they said it did skip timing. I am assuming 1 tooth because of this pic. There is a little noise. Very faint but I can hear it.

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I'm just irritated. I paid almost 1,000 and it still got messed up but very thankful the re-did the timing and got it back. minus the little noise, it's pretty faint so I am just glad to have the car back as it is my daily driver.

 

[We're on Boost]

yes the belt is together

Well yes it's back together, but can you tell by poking around on it with your finger if the belt is stretched any tighter now than it was yesterday before this happened?

 

[pauleyman]

I'm just irritated. I paid almost 1,000 and it still got messed up but very thankful the re-did the timing and got it back. minus the little noise, it's pretty faint so I am just glad to have the car back as it is my daily driver.

Did they make any statements as to why it did that? We already know. Juat wondering if they admitted their mistake

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Or how they "fixed" it.......
I'd get some documentation myself, seriously.
These are easy to fk up and hard to fix.
It's just me being frustrated for you and my .02c. Hope all is good but it's 50/50 in my head.
I sure wish I was retired so I could have come up and fixed it for you!
Marty

 

[awdtsi_90]

I'm over this car. there was a backfire and now it will not even turn over. I am really starting to regret getting another dsm

I am literally out almost $ 3,000 at this point. Between the car and the timing belt and now it won't start. This evening after thr car wouldn't start I tried taking the ecu out but I couldn't get the clips out and I didnt want to break a wire so just put it back.

The car was running then almost died
but it jept going then ran for about another minute then back fired and wouldn't start back up. I let it sit for a few hours and it started back up so i drove it down the street and left it idling as I talked to my neighbor and it died and will not start up at all. When it was running there was no noise and it sounded fine. I'm stumped and over it. It has thrn sit for about 5 hours and I went to see If it will start now and it won't. I'm stumped, sad & mad

On the only damn good side is I got a front grill installed from Brandon Nichols on here and got the new front & rear sears installed before the car went to shit.

Marty I would of loved to originally have it towed out for you to do it because I know the car would be in alot better shape then it was and definitely is now and my money wouldnt of been wasted.

 

[We're on Boost]

This evening after thr car wouldn't start I tried taking the ecu out but I couldn't get the clips out and I didnt want to break a wire so just put it back.

Yeah the first time I took my ecu out and looked at the back end of it, the 3 big wide yellow plugs that go into it with all the wires, one or two of them had the levers broken that you push down to unlatch the plug to pull it out. Broken already by somebody previous who was probably levering a screw driver against them trying to lever out the plugs. You don't do it that way! And the wires are pretty short so it's hard to work on them.
Have you tried cranking the idle dial up to 6 or 7 yet? You should. That's the first thing you should try now and it's an easy thing.
Also, have you changed the setting on the fuel pressure regulator since you got the car? Did you lower the fuel pressure? Or did you just put a new gauge on it? Don't lower the pressure now, I'm just asking if you did already.

The car was running then almost died
but it jept going then ran for about another minute then back fired and wouldn't start back up. I let it sit for a few hours and it started back up so i drove it down the street and left it idling as I talked to my neighbor and it died and will not start up at all. When it was running there was no noise and it sounded fine. I'm stumped and over it. It has thrn sit for about 5 hours and I went to see If it will start now and it won't.

I watched your 3 videos again that are in post #47. I noticed that it idles better right after a cold start (first video) then it does when it's fully warmed up (3rd video).
In your cold start video it's idling at an AFR of about 15 and "with no help from you". In your warm idle video it's idling rough at an AFR of 18 and you have to keep your foot on the gas.
I think the reason it's acting like that is because the ECT sensor is actually working! It's sending the right temp info to the ecu which makes the mixture richer for cold start. Then as it warms up the ecu is getting that ECT temp info and making the mixture leaner, because that's what the basic fuel map in the ecu does. Then it quits running because it's just getting way too lean!
You just have to make it richer. It needs to be richer both cold and warm, at low speeds and idle.
So don't order a new O2 sensor just yet, and you might not even need a new ECT sensor.
For now just crank up the idle dial to 7 and see what happens. Then try cranking up the Mid dial a little, with the Idle dial still cranked up.

 

[awdtsi_90]

I have the dials at 0 0 7 2 1. Just got the car started and drove it. Randomly it almost loses complete power and then a loud pop/backfire. Gunshot loud. I got it started again and got it back home as i was right down the road. There is no noise coming from the motor either, the timing is still good. I checked that again. fuel pressure as I start it is right here. I have turned the fuel pressure down just a small amount While ago. like before the timing belt job was done.

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[We're on Boost]

Randomly it almost loses complete power and then a loud pop/backfire.

This sounds like an ignition system problem, and that is a whole different lot of stuff to try to track down.
But it might be because of up and down AFR, going back and forth between ignitable and non-ignitable mixes, or something like that.
Hard to tell without a log.
But a video of driving and idling showing the AFR gauge like you did before would be pretty interesting - to see if the AFRs are any different now than they were.

There is no noise coming from the motor either, the timing is still good. I checked that again.

Well that is good!

fuel pressure as I start it is right here. I have turned the fuel pressure down just a small amount While ago. like before the timing belt job was done.

I see in the pic it is 50 psi with the hose connected. Normally that is about as high as you would ever want to go.
But did the car run better before, when the fuel pressure was higher? Do you mean it was like 1 or 2 psi higher or was it more like 5 or 10 psi higher? Your old gauge that came with the car was just stuck at 60 or at least that's the way I read it, so the readings on the old gauge didn't mean anything.

 

[awdtsi_90]

I tried pulling out the ecu. if anyone is close and wants to make a trip to help much would be appreciated. I will take a video of it here in just a min. I'm not to sure of the fuel pressure so I will reply with that also

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[We're on Boost]

The seats look good!
The cold start and then it died, I don't know, it didn't run long enough to get a readable shot of the AFR gauge. Seems like it quit just a couple seconds after you took your foot off the gas pedal.
If it would stay running long enough to get a reading from the AFR gauge it would be better. You'd probably have to stay in the car with your foot on the gas a little after it starts.
That long crank of about 4 seconds before starting is a little how mine was when my "Cranking Fuel Adjust" was disabled in DSMlink because of a wire I had removed under the dash (to the starter relay). Now that is working again and in my logs I can see that it adds about 70% to the fuel during cranking, which tapers off to 0 over the next 20 seconds. My car starts a lot faster with that. In your Translator, when you turn on Mode switch #3, it enables startup enrichment. You should try that, Mode switch #3 ON. That's in the manual under "Initial MAF Mode Setup".

The 3 yellow electrical plugs that go into the back of the ecu look like this when they are new.
The blue arrows point at the part you push down on to unlatch them so you can wiggle them out of there hopefully without breaking anything.

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[awdtsi_90]

Dose anyone know where to buy a power transistor? I am running down the list of what the culprits could be.
1.fuel injectors
2. spark plug & wires
3. fuel filter
4. power transistor
5. ignition coil pack
6. bent valves or timing issue.

Today I am going to get a compression tester and check that out. I also know the power transistor has to be a 90 because the 90 is a 5 terminal where 91-94 is a 7 terminal

 

[awdtsi_90]

The long cranking time just started after the last time I drove it. I will flip up the start up enrichment on #3 today when I get home and see. The car died before the afr gauge was able to settle down after it dose the sweep from high to low after start up.

 

[We're on Boost]

Today I am going to get a compression tester and check that out.

This is good. You need to do this before deciding whether to keep going with this car as a long term project. In my opinion.

Does anyone know where to buy a power transistor?

Yes! I bought a new one aftermarket (Rock Auto) and it came looking like an actual OEM Mitsubishi unit packed in an Intermotor box.
Check it out, pic and post about it in my thread about relocating the power transistor to the cabin, look at post #9 here:
https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/relocate-power-transistor-to-inside-cabin.536345/
I'm very happy with this transistor. It's working as good as it looks which is perfect.
They are expensive, even from Rock Auto. Even worse from a Mitsu dealer or NAPA.
There is a test that you can do with a multimeter to test your PTU (power transistor unit) but I bet yours would test ok. Then when it gets hot it could quit working. That's what mine was doing.
So as to whether that is actually what is wrong on your car, it's hard to say. The tests for these electrical things aren't always reliable in that sometimes a part can test ok but there is actually something wrong with the part that isn't detected by the test.
Here's a link to the Rock Auto page where this unit is listed for your car. It's listed as a Standard Motor Products LX646 for $209.79.
LX646 1990 power transistor

fuel injectors

I still have the original 450cc injectors that I took out of my car in about 2009. They were working fine when I took them out. You would have to buy new rubber seals to put on them, and that would cost you something. But the injectors I would just give you for cost of shipping. They aren't doing anybody any good just lying around here, and I don't like to sell stuff like that. I'd rather give it away. They've been lying around here wrapped up in saran wrap ever since 2009 about.

ignition coil pack

You can get these new for about $50 from Rock Auto but let me get back on this later after checking something out, because I think the one I bought is no longer available, but other brands are. Whatever the brand, the 1990 is different than 1991-94.

The long cranking time just started after the last time I drove it.

That doesn't sound so good.

The car died before the afr gauge was able to settle down after it dose the sweep from high to low after start up.

Right. And the wideband sensor takes half a minute or so to warm up decently too.

If you decide you want to keep going with working on this car, you are at some point going to want a $30 multimeter.
I would also say you should have a Haynes manual for it. In some ways the Haynes manual is easier to make sense of than the factory manual. The factory manual kind of assumes you are a full-blast auto mechanic already. The Haynes manual is written for regular guys who are not necessarily mechanics. Yet it does have almost all the info in it you need, including tests. And this particular one is good because it only is for the 1990 - 1994, and they show the things that are different for 1990. They don't try to cover 10 years worth of models like Chilton did. It's Haynes #68030. You can buy a new one for $28.84 here: Haynes 1990 - 1994
A new one directly from Haynes is $35.

One more big item - your ECU could have some problems inside. In fact, if the capacitors in it have never been replaced, it probably does have a problem and it could be almost your entire problem. We just went through this with a guy in a really good thread that you should read through to pick up whatever info you can about it. When you get your ecu out you should take the cover off of it and take pics of the circuit board inside like the guy in this thread did. In that thread, in the end, the guys who are good with circuit boards said that his board needs to be fixed. The guy is probably going to send his ecu to ECMtuning to get repaired. So study this thread all the way through to the end, it's a good one: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/c...s-doesnt-catch-up-when-engine-braking.544743/

 

[awdtsi_90]

Ok. thank you very much. I need to get the ecu out so I will give it another go. Here are the sparkplugs I took out and none are smashed. Haven't done the compression check yet.

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[We're on Boost]

Here are the sparkplugs I took out

The spark plugs look ok. They don't even look that old really. And they are NGK which is good. The gap looks reasonable.
If anything is suspicious at all, the one in the 4th picture looks a little wetter than the others, and the one in the 5th picture looks a little more dry than the others. You should probably keep track of which cylinders those 2 plugs came out of for comparison to your compression check later.
If you still have them out, check to see what NGK's they are. They should say BPR something.

 

[awdtsi_90]

just got the car started on the first try and it fired right up instantly. Afr was at 12 on startup when the gauges finished its sweep. Car idled just fine. My phone was charging or i would of took a video. I am actually about to go see if it will start again like it did.

I didn't get a compression test done. That will get done tom I just didn't have time for it today.

 

[awdtsi_90]

This is the 2nd attempt of starting today and it has been instantly on the first try both times. This time was rough in the beginning but then settled down. I got rattles on the inside but motor sounds fine I think. What about you?

There is still an issue tho but this helps and I need to drive it tomorrow after the compression test. I am hoping and thinking the compression will be fine tho.

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[We're on Boost]

Wow! I think the motor sounds fine! That little rough in the beginning isn't bad at all. It settled down after about 30 seconds.
Don't go too far from home on your test drive - it might stop running or just get uncooperative after it's warmed up.
What's different now from before? Just startup enrichment turned on? Is that all?