Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

[DreamChaser7]

Minimal framing and some visqueen…(that’s poly for you yanks) I can say that cuz I’m from Maine.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Drove the car up the road today to get the tires put on it, and totally forgot that it's July 4th. Sigh.


I don't really think it's fair that all these places are now suddenly deciding that holidays are worth taking off. I remember working at this exact company back in my teens and not getting the 4th off or any holiday really except like Christmas. Now every business is closed every single sunday, and every holiday no matter how small.

I feel like an old man saying this, but that ain't fair. Let these little bastards suffer like we did. F*ck them kids.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Converted the car to speed density today, subsequently its running like ass and not responding to adjustments to try to lean the idle out.


I made a help thread in the tuning section. Please help. Lol. But I'll post the same log here too just in case.

Issues: Won't idle on its own for more than about 30 seconds, then it dies like you turn the ignition off. If you give it a little gas, it idles fine. No hesitation, no bogging.

It also is running rich at idle, and no amount of VE adjustment on the Speed Density tab, or global fuel makes a bit of difference. Please halp. Why is it doing this?


Update: Okay so I was just adjusting the wrong cells in Speed Density tab. Facepalm. I'm a newb with ECMLink's SD so I had no clue those numbers on the left didn't coincide with MAP sensor, it's a combo.


Adjusting the proper cells has the idle AFR way closer to where I want it, and it idles on its own now without assistance. Occasionally it has a...stumble? But honestly, it's smoother than on the MAF by a lot. So we can cross that off.


However the problem has progressed to now it has a very slight hesitation/stumble when I stab the gas, and after the RPMs comes back down it stumbles, bumbles, and dies. I'm assuming it's because the rest of the SD table isn't tuned/adjusted, and probably some tip-in adjustment needs to be made too.

Either way here's a newer log. Check it out, call me out, let me know. Drop some knowledge into my skull.


Edit #2: Also, after messing with the harness, I think the Map Sensor connector is a POS. It's a green one that was included with this harness pre-made, and I think it's not fully connecting/seating the pins in the connector. Because if I wiggle it, the sensor "dies" on the log. So, that's probably part of the problem as well. I have the OG GM connector that came with my map sensor that is slightly shorter and the pins sit closer to the "opening" of the connector, so I'll solder that on tomorrow and mess with it more. But so far...it's progress. I think SD is gonna make this thing idle and drive like a champ.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Alright well everyone I've asked for help with speed density has ignored me, so I just switched back to the MAF sensor. Fired right up, idles and revs perfect, nothing to chase or hunt down. I'm just gonna stick with MAF until it becomes a restriction or headache.


Probably honestly gonna stop updating this thread too and just make a private record on my own so I don't spam the forums anymore. Give other people a chance to build their thread up.


Appreciate the input from everyone. Good luck everybody.

 

[DreamChaser7]

I’d help Corey but I don’t know squat about that stuff yet, other than watching videos and reading. But that doesn’t do much until I’m hands on with it and see what stuff actually does.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Alright well everyone I've asked for help with speed density has ignored me, so I just switched back to the MAF sensor. Fired right up, idles and revs perfect, nothing to chase or hunt down. I'm just gonna stick with MAF until it becomes a restriction or headache.


Probably honestly gonna stop updating this thread too and just make a private record on my own so I don't spam the forums anymore. Give other people a chance to build their thread up.


Appreciate the input from everyone. Good luck everybody.

The switch from MAF to SD can give similar results, as I switch back to MAF for SMOG testing with minimal changes. Most of the pain is related to finding the sweet spot in closed loop so that LT and ST fuel trims hover around 0% using fuel pressure and dead times.

I suggest starting a SD specific thread - post some ECM Link logs, and get feedback.

 

[curt-s]

Alright well everyone I've asked for help with speed density has ignored me, so I just switched back to the MAF sensor. Fired right up, idles and revs perfect, nothing to chase or hunt down. I'm just gonna stick with MAF until it becomes a restriction or headache.


Probably honestly gonna stop updating this thread too and just make a private record on my own so I don't spam the forums anymore. Give other people a chance to build their thread up.


Appreciate the input from everyone. Good luck everybody.

Don't get down on SD, it's a bit of a struggle sometimes. I find it brings out weirdness on your motor and VE than mass air does. Mass air is like.. entire tenths of the VE table all averaged together. SDs ability to isolate 500rpm vs 3psi or so is what makes it so special.

That being said, lots of people here run SD and tweak their own tables.. but many will not opt to provide advice because of the fear of providing maybe the wrong or not exactly perfect advice and then others coming down on them overly hard as if it was some sort of conspiracy to steer you wrong purposefully and spreading misinformation.

 

[Stapl3]

You gotta load in a "stock" SD table and leave it be for the most part. Changing all those cells to 35 is wrong. You complain of it hesitating when you give it throttle, but it dips super lean because you told the ECU those values. And even if those cells worked perfectly, the engine doesn't jump from 35 to the 60s in a millisecond. It's like having a crazy jig jag sliders for Mafcomp, no ones engine runs that jagged.
The SD table on my cars, be it a 16g or 6266, are like 98% untouched. Some cells during spool I'll tweak very little, and I aim to have peak VE for the cells to be 100 so I'll do some work around there. It's very very tempting to mess with the table. It's instant satisfaction and so easy to do and you can literally do it on the fly. But trust me when I say leaving it alone is the way.

You should also look at TPSDelta, which you have logged. It reaches a value of ~2 when you punch the throttle. This value can be used for adjustments to BaseTipInTPSAdj in DA. See how column 2 there has a used value of 5? Experiment with this table. Rather than 5, make it 10. Aggressively adjust it. But again, the cell this area is working with you changed to 35 when it should be much higher. So maybe this is moot.

On top of that for throttle response and helping with the bogging upon rev-down, lots of that is the timing table in DA. That is something I'm still actively learning but would be more than happy to lay out everything I've figured out with that.

What's a log with using the MAF look like?

 

[chrisman287]

This might help you:


Also I would suggest using an authentic GM 3 bar. Made a world of difference on my car

 

[Dericsh]

Hope we get an update on the tuning soon, wish I knew more to be able to help.

 

[Ludachris]

Probably honestly gonna stop updating this thread too and just make a private record on my own so I don't spam the forums anymore. Give other people a chance to build their thread up.

why exactly? Sharing your progress isn't "spamming" the forum, it's considered a "contribution" in an automotive community like this. Sharing updates is one of the easiest and best ways to contribute to this forum. Anyone can do it, and it helps build and maintain camaraderie. Where are you sharing your progress now, if not here in the forum?

 

[curt-s]

You will NOT stop. I forbid it.

 

[LaserRS92]

He hasn't been on since 7/9...

 

[Ludachris]

He hasn't been on since 7/9...

Looks like he's been active recently over in the FB group. That's too bad.

 

[Stapl3]

He said it in his last reply. "Alright well everyone I've asked for help with speed density has ignored me", which is referring to this thread on the 8th which didn't get replies until the 10th so in his eyes he was ignored even though it was 24 hours. Even more weird is I replied to him on the 9th like 5 posts up offering an answer, and additional info, and expressed interest on seeing a log.

Oh well. Looks like 7/9 he threw pity and on 8/29 the pity party is occurring.

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

We'll all (hopefully) be here if/when he returns.

 

[DreamChaser7]

He’s liked stuff recently so he’s been on. Some people are more emotional than others? I’m no shrink, but maybe…
I mean I can’t think of anyone who would get this much response for not participating. Come on Corey, this should make you feel wanted at least. Let’s get back to it.
I’m legitimately not being mean, we are here when you are ready.

 

[curt-s]

He said it in his last reply. "Alright well everyone I've asked for help with speed density has ignored me", which is referring to this thread on the 8th which didn't get replies until the 10th so in his eyes he was ignored even though it was 24 hours. Even more weird is I replied to him on the 9th like 5 posts up offering an answer, and additional info, and expressed interest on seeing a log.

Oh well. Looks like 7/9 he threw pity and on 8/29 the pity party is occurring.

You mentioned in https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/altered-mental-status-1g-awd-5spd.542522/post-153920858 that regardless of turbo, you run basically an untouched SD table besides a bit of tweaks here or there.
If you change out the exhaust manifold, hot side (6cm vs 7cm vs 10cm), intake manifold, cams, etc., which I presume you're doing at least some of that when going from a 16g to a 6266, how does that not alter the VE of the engine even a noticeable amount?

A base SD table I would assume is built from a 1g/2g exhaust manifold, intake, and stock cams.. but the moment you're more free flowing, you should really be increasing VE with the ability to clear more exhaust out of the cylinders, no?

Legit questions.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Aw, I didn't mean to imply that a SD specific thread is the only way to get SD feedback. This is the build thread - it goes here for sure.

 

[Stapl3]

You mentioned in https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/altered-mental-status-1g-awd-5spd.542522/post-153920858 that regardless of turbo, you run basically an untouched SD table besides a bit of tweaks here or there.
If you change out the exhaust manifold, hot side (6cm vs 7cm vs 10cm), intake manifold, cams, etc., which I presume you're doing at least some of that when going from a 16g to a 6266, how does that not alter the VE of the engine even a noticeable amount?

A base SD table I would assume is built from a 1g/2g exhaust manifold, intake, and stock cams.. but the moment you're more free flowing, you should really be increasing VE with the ability to clear more exhaust out of the cylinders, no?

Legit questions.

Nope, that's just the way it ends up. Idle and cruise I leave alone, the only work done really is to be sure peak VE has a value of 100.

We were just talking the other day here about how much the ECU relies on airflow to be correct yet it's the most molested part when it comes to adjustments. People look at their 10 dollar afpr gauge and go yep, then put in the global fuel % and go yep, then it's a free for all on the airflow adjustments to make that work when in reality it should be the opposite.

Aw, I didn't mean to imply that a SD specific thread is the only way to get SD feedback. This is the build thread - it goes here for sure.

This is all your fault.

 

[1cleangsx]

If you have an over inflated VE table, as in 100+ values it means lb/per min numbers will also be inflated correct? I know speed density measures boost and guesses airflow where as a maf measures airflow and guesses boost

 

[Stapl3]

If you have an over inflated VE table, as in 100+ values it means lb/per min numbers will also be inflated correct?

Correct. The SD table values are a percentage of VE. There will be a point where it's at its peak, so a value of 100 is to be used there. Anything over 100 you'll for sure have over inflated values logged in 'link such as lb/min.

 

[curt-s]

Nope, that's just the way it ends up. Idle and cruise I leave alone, the only work done really is to be sure peak VE has a value of 100.

We were just talking the other day here about how much the ECU relies on airflow to be correct yet it's the most molested part when it comes to adjustments. People look at their 10 dollar afpr gauge and go yep, then put in the global fuel % and go yep, then it's a free for all on the airflow adjustments to make that work when in reality it should be the opposite.

I can see idle and cruise being not much different between setups; you're not doing that much on double digit horsepower.

However, deep in boost, VE of the engine has to be modified (ie. Better VE) with cams, intake, and exhaust. Perhaps I just took what you said too broadly, and the context was cruise you were talking about, not 20lbs+

 

[CrackedDSM]

Alright, I feel like I owe you guys an explanation. Despite whatever excuse past me mentioned, the real reason I took a step away is work was starting to catch up to me.

I'll spare the details because I don't really want to relive them, so I'll sum them up.

Everything in life was bad. Really bad calls, coupled with working an absolutely abysmal shift staffed full of 25-40 year old high school minded children who are absolutely as petty and evil as you could be while not being thrown in prison, and it seemed like only I was the one ever getting in trouble. Ironically for trying to save the patient and help people.

It was a well needed break. The excuse my lame-ass mind latched on to was "no one is helping me with speed density". Which, wasn't untrue but nor was it the whole truth. It was the proverbial straw that broke this particular camel's back and then f**cked its wife.


Since then, life has drastically improved. I moved to a different shift full of people that all want to be family, and actually give a f**k about patients, and have made some pretty decent progress on the DSM. Thanks for the words and help gentleman, and never fear. I'll be back to spamming the sh*t making forum contributions super soon.




Edit: and regards to SD, the VE table was f**ked. I copied cell by cell a picture of the OEM VE table that comes with ECMLink, and it solved a bunch of the problems. But honestly, I'm enjoying the MAF. I'll go SD later when the car is 100%. Just today I saved the car from burning to the ground, so there's still some...kinks..to iron out.

 

[1cleangsx]

Welcome Back! I think it says alot about the amount of people commenting on your build thread with you absent , I think we’re all excited to try and continue to help you with your car, and I agree, if the maf is working, don’t fix something that ain’t broke