The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[e85_4g63]

Now just since I typed that somebody is going to go out and run a fast time first time out right

...and more then likely it'll be someone no one has ever heard about

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Good thing they can still be found pretty cheap eh! Glad to hear the car is up and running, you've going to have to post some pics when you finally make it to the track.

Yeah it was disappointing, but not the end of the world. I was going to pull the exhaust manifold anyway to heli-coil a few of the stud holes so that's already halfway to swapping the turbo.

At first I was planning on buying another used 14b and slapping it on but after talking to Justin I'm going to buy a rebuilt 14b CHRA for just a little more and it should last longer (and hopefully perform better) being that it's fresh rather then 20 years old.

 

[SBstar]

Yeah it was disappointing, but not the end of the world. I was going to pull the exhaust manifold anyway to heli-coil a few of the stud holes so that's already halfway to swapping the turbo.

At first I was planning on buying another used 14b and slapping it on but after talking to Justin I'm going to buy a rebuilt 14b CHRA for just a little more and it should last longer (and hopefully perform better) being that it's fresh rather then 20 years old.

Let me know how much that runs ya. I've been thinking about a new/rebuilt one for insurance if/when this one gives up the ghost.

 

[JusMX141]

I'm not going for any records, but I'm going to be putting a 14b on my car this spring for fun and see what happens.

I'm on-board for this as well.

Plan will be to use a ported 2G manifold, ported 7cm turbine housing with a standard 31mm flapper, and a Holset actuator to keep boost levels as close to 30psi as possible. We had considered just welding the flapper shut, but I don't want there to be any chance of ending up with different boost pressures by gear selection / engine load which may effect the tune or consistency of the pass. Other than that it will be the same 14B that anyone else can run...standard compressor cover, j-pipe, etc.

Filter housing oil feed with a restrictor- no water lines. Car's going to need a better intercooler before the 14B goes on as we'll obviously be pushing the turbo well beyond it's designed efficiency range.

Probably swapping back to street tires just because I don't think the car will stand to gain as much from a good launch on slicks as it could potentially lose bouncing down the track on 15psi in tires that have no sidewall reinforcement. Cutting a good 60-ft on street tires with a 14B should be a no-brainer.

Not looking for records, just want to see how much fun we can have slowing the car down a little because Dave didn't have a very profitable winter plowing (we've seriously had 8" of snow here the entire winter) and can't afford to get a cage in the car just yet.

 

[Hubbell91Tsi]

Good luck Dave and Justin!

 

[bastarddsm]

Plan will be to use a ported 2G manifold, ported 7cm turbine housing with a standard 31mm flapper, and a Holset actuator to keep boost levels as close to 30psi as possible. We had considered just welding the flapper shut, but I don't want there to be any chance of ending up with different boost pressures by gear selection / engine load which may effect the tune or consistency of the pass.

You should seriously consider the use of a dual port actuator, and a paint regulator. It will have much better boost control than a ball/spring deal. Especially on something like this that will have sky high drive pressure.

I also think a 7cm housing with the WG welded shut, might work ok. On the tractor pull stuff I play with, some guys have tried to waste-gate them, and all they do is loose a bunch of torque down low, with no increase in top end. Granted it's diesel, and we are completely max the turbo out for ALL its worth. But I suspect it's something to try on these little guys. I just don't know if you will be able to get away with it on gasoline.

Also, what are the fuel rules for 14b stuff? Obviously running the car on straight methanol, would be worth at least 15% power over gasoline.. E85, is worth about 7%. How about Nitro-methane? Small does of that would be worth minor miracles... I don't think I'll ever have a 14b on my car again, so it don't matter much to me.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Once you're compressor limited and airflow is fixed, boost just becomes an inverse function of rpm. With the 16g I found it better to not worry about boost pressure and watch turbine drive pressure instead. In my case I found that regulating drive pressure to fixed, reduced value showed no loss in performance and the turbo is going to be much happier in the long run. I was seeing up to 60 psi EMP in testing. Boost was ~21 psi at 7k rpm. This and cam gear changes got it down to the 10.31 it ran on the last pass. I'm pretty sure the same thing will apply to the 14b, though the drive pressure should be set even lower since airflow (and therefore boost) will be lower. If I decide to find a 14b to test before going back to the big turbos, I'm hoping this will keep me from shooting the turbine wheel out the exhaust like I did the last time I tried this 10 years ago.

 

[LaserRS92]

Not looking to take any records but I just wanted to let you guys know myself and a few other buddies look forward to the heat most of you will be bringing to the Shootout this year!!

On a side note, I just picked up a August 1991 build date early 1992 titled white with grey AWD Laser RS for $600 non running

 

[Phil1320]

There is a reason the record has stood for nearly a decade now.....

IT'S FREAKING INSANE HARD It's not like all of us are idiots and just can't get it done.

Basically that's it in a nutshell for sure.

This is why i think the 14b record will always be held by a FWD. I think especially at this power level the traction needed for a fwd is obtainable with slicks at which point the awd gives up its one advantage it has and really shows it's biggest disadvantage, weight. Just my opinion, though.

You may be 100% correct....however...the quickest 1/8 mile of 6.994 will be beaten by an AWD platform....MARK my words, quote me, whatever you want to do.

On your point. Joe's quickest 60' on the 14b(possible on the 16g as well) is 1.52 as far as I know.

I've been quicker than that multiple times with only 3 trips to the strip. Granted, not by enough to make any real difference in 1/4 ET, but, nonetheless, quicker than Joe B. has ever touched the 60'. It's one record that Joe B. no longer holds....so we are on the right track. Just gonna have to pick him off one marker at a time.....next is the 330' ET.

I've run multiple 1.48's....and I've got another tenth in reserve just to the 60' mark. So, again, mark my words, quote me, whatever. I might not do it first, but an AWD DSM will run 1.3 60's with 14b power.

My estimate is that flat 1.35 60's are attainable with the AWD platform and 14b power.

To my knowledge, Bucci's total race weight was 2100 lbs. - YES - tough to match that in an AWD, in fact just about impossible. But, that's ok....it won't be neccessary to be LIGHTER than his car......from what I know he himself leaves 75-100 lbs. on the table just in body weight over some of us. Go ahead and laugh, whatever, but, in this game....if I can teach my 110 lb. wife to drive my car......you guys are all screwed.

So, we'll see if you're right or not. Gonna take some time for the answers to all come out for sure....

Sounds easy in theory. My 2300 lb, 321whp 14b FWD setup on slicks ran 12.4 @ 114.5 last season. Best 60' was a high 1.8. Even with perfect traction and launch, it's a LONG road to 10.8s.

right...however I believe you've got plenty left.....based on that FWD HP number you are making almost 25 CRANK HP more than I was....so you have some sick power there. I'm sure you can hook a solid 1.70 with those slicks with some seat time which gets you into the 11's.....

We went 11.76@113 with low1.7 high 1.6 60'.

Here is a quick list of what the car had.
BASICS & SUSPENSION
90 fwd laser
It's completly gutted it weighs 2020lbs
sparco race seat
5 point harness
painless wiring control box(ie power switchs)
Stock 6bolt(sans the balance shafts)
stock trans.
kyb gr2's with ebay coil overs
ploy. motor mounts
22" slicks
14b
2G manifold

MODS
1 gallon fuel cell filled w/ c16
-8 an feed to rail -6an return
aeromotive fuel ps reg.
450cc injectors
walbro 255 extranl fuel pump
Maft translator
gm 3" maf and translator.
super afc
pwr 8" liquid to air I/c
ebay o2 housing modified to use external gate
ebay external gate w/17psi spring
2.5 to 3" exhaust
aluminum fly wheel
act 2600 fly.

I was not trying to imply 10.86 was an easy road. I was just stating my opinion on why I think the record will always be fwd.

By what you've got listed above.....1 gallon fuel cell etc.......it appears you're about 240 lbs. lighter than my combo in overall weight yet I've got you by 2.5-3 tenths at the top of the track...so this is not supporting your FWD arguement very well. You also have a more in depth non-basic set up with your liquid-air IC.....

Bucci is the ONLY one that has broken the mold in the FWD category.....all other FWD 14b competitors are high 11 second cars at BEST. So, the overall record may continue to be held by BUCCI, however, the "other" FWD cars are not on the same level and are trailing the AWD's....

 

[1SloEvo]

I'm hoping my FWD will at least run mid to low 11s once she's going. Just fired it up for the first time yesterday with the new motor. It fired on the first turn of the key. Just have to see how the numbers lay down once I button up a few more things and get some miles on her...then tune/track time!

 

[Phil1320]

I dunno. If you ask me I conquered the 113mph barrier once I got into the ecu and started tuning aggressively. I made consistent mph gains when I was pushing the 14b and ended the season going 118mph.
Phil went 116.7mph after getting a custom chip I tweaked for him, among other important mods.

Actually Dave, I went 116.85 PRE- your chip at my second outing in 2009. That MPH came on an 11.59 pass which became my new best and closing in on your 11.51.

I haven't beat that trap speed since....I topped out in the 115 mph range at the two following visits to the strip....

However, I've flirted with 95 mph in the 1/8 along with low 1/8 ETs which I would attribute at least part of that to the chip.

That's why I put some extra little things in the chip I made for you. I added code that helps keep the tune consistant and that work together with the mods you have on the car. I mean, you went almost 117mph even with the extra rolling resistance of slicks. That's some decent top end.

Remember now?

 

[Nate Crisman]

You may be 100% correct....however...the quickest 1/8 mile of 6.97 will be beaten by an AWD platform....MARK my words, quote me, whatever you want to do.

On your point. Joe's quickest 60' on the 14b(possible on the 16g as well) is 1.52 as far as I know.

I've been quicker than that multiple times with only 3 trips to the strip. Granted, not by enough to make any real difference in 1/4 ET, but, nonetheless, quicker than Joe B. has ever touched the 60'. It's one record that Joe B. no longer holds....so we are on the right track. Just gonna have to pick him off one marker at a time.....next is the 330' ET.

I've run multiple 1.48's....and I've got another tenth in reserve just to the 60' mark. So, again, mark my words, quote me, whatever. I might not do it first, but an AWD DSM will run 1.3 60's with 14b power.

My estimate is that flat 1.35 60's are attainable with the AWD platform and 14b power.

Bucci is the ONLY one that has broken the mold in the FWD category.....all other FWD 14b competitors are high 11 second cars at BEST. So, the overall record may continue to be held by BUCCI, however, the "other" FWD cars are not on the same level and are trailing the AWD's....

Im looking at my best 14b-only passes:
1.466 60'
4.564 330'
7.165 1/8' (been 6.99, but that was w/ spray in second gear on 3cyl)
94.79mph

At least on my setup, It will take some serious work to get the 60' into the 1.3's. I just don't make enough power to come out any harder, Im leaving at maximum boost @4200rpm and the car dead hooks. I'v even got the suspension effectively locked out with the front strapped down hard. Not even the slightest hint of tire slippage, just dead hook. Seems like if I could make more power at 4200rpm or get the boost above 24psi on the line (without pulling through the brakes), I could hit it harder.

need more power, more gear ratio, or less weight to significantly improve the 60'. Im up in the air if I should spend effort on weight or power at my stage.

I suppose a stick trans car could theoretically have an advantage in 60' if the track prep, driving, tires, alignment, and suspension were absolutely ideal and the stars line up. If you can get a clutch car to dead hook with a 6000+rpm launch and literally sidestep the clutch and blast the car off the line...maybe could hit the 1.40-1.38 range?

Phil & Pneumo: you guys modulating clutch or power at the line to maintain traction or are you able to literally drop the clutch and hit the tire with everything the motor has?

 

[Phil1320]

Im looking at my best 14b-only passes:
1.466 60'
4.564 330'
7.165 1/8' (been 6.99, but that was w/ spray in second gear on 3cyl)
94.79mph

At least on my setup, It will take some serious work to get the 60' into the 1.3's. I just don't make enough power to come out any harder, Im leaving at maximum boost @4200rpm and the car dead hooks. I'v even got the suspension effectively locked out with the front strapped down hard. Not even the slightest hint of tire slippage, just dead hook. Seems like if I could make more power at 4200rpm or get the boost above 24psi on the line (without pulling through the brakes), I could hit it harder.

need more power, more gear ratio, or less weight to significantly improve the 60'. Im up in the air if I should spend effort on weight or power at my stage.

I suppose a stick trans car could theoretically have an advantage in 60' if the track prep, driving, tires, alignment, and suspension were absolutely ideal and the stars line up. If you can get a clutch car to dead hook with a 6000+rpm launch and literally sidestep the clutch and blast the car off the line...maybe could hit the 1.40-1.38 range?

Phil & Pneumo: you guys modulating clutch or power at the line to maintain traction or are you able to literally drop the clutch and hit the tire with everything the motor has?

So you have the best 14b powered 60' time of 1.466 BUT YOU'RE AUTO......joking....

Lemme check what Bucci's 330' mark is.......you're 4.56, I'm 4.66....

You got it Nate! Bucci's 330' on his record *10.87* is 4.577

So, I had edged Bucci's 60' times back in '09 and in 2011 Nate edged me in 60' and Bucci in 330' time.

This is my systematic way of analyzing our current accomplishments against THE RECORD RUN.

Nate = 7.165 1/8
Joe = 6.994 1/8

.171 difference

Nate, you were damn close to doing what I've been saying for a while.

 

[Nate Crisman]

So you have the best 14b powered 60' time of 1.466 BUT YOU'RE AUTO......joking....

Lemme check what Bucci's 330' mark is.......you're 4.56, I'm 4.66....

You got it Nate! Bucci's 330' on his record *10.87* is 4.577

So, I had edged Bucci's 60' times back in '09 and in 2011 Nate edged me in 60' and Bucci in 330' time.

This is my systematic way of analyzing our current accomplishments against THE RECORD RUN.

Nate = 7.165 1/8
Joe = 6.994 1/8

.171 difference

Nate, you were damn close to doing what I've been saying for a while.

So basically we have him on the line and to the middle of second gear. From that point on Bucci's applied power/weight ratio just gobbles us up.

 

[Phil1320]

Im looking at my best 14b-only passes:
Phil & Pneumo: you guys modulating clutch or power at the line to maintain traction or are you able to literally drop the clutch and hit the tire with everything the motor has?

I modulate the clutch even with the studderbox. I've never side-stepped anything except maybe a few women

So basically we have him on the line and to the middle of second gear. From that point on Bucci's applied power/weight ratio just gobbles us up.

Right. However you're just a touch closer to him than I am....like ummm 8 inches or something!

Don't worry Nate, one way or another, Bucci is goin down.....

And, if you or anyone wants to know why I'm so confident about running 60' times that rival the quickest ever in a DSM, with a 14b? I've been studying my videos....#1 - my slick pressures are between 12 - 15 psi. There's much room to play there. #2 Even on my 1.48 60s, the slicks are spinning and squealing like pigs out of the hole. #3 I've got alot more weight to take out. I still have a stock gas tank and lots of glass in the car.

I'm hoping my FWD will at least run mid to low 11s once she's going. Just fired it up for the first time yesterday with the new motor. It fired on the first turn of the key. Just have to see how the numbers lay down once I button up a few more things and get some miles on her...then tune/track time!

Obviously, it's very possible, however, if you're online reading right now....it will be a true task on many levels. I would love to see you run sub 11.50 for sure

I wasn't saying it doesn't happen, just that it's difficult. In my experience, it seems one can slap just about any setup together with a 14b...crank the boost to max, and with reasonable tune and octane: Go about 112-113mph. And from that point on, it takes skill and effort to scratch out 1mph here and 1mph there IF it happens at all.


My overall point is that the power potential is so low, I really think a newcomer to the record is bet served getting a 95% engine combo and spending his effort on weight, traction, and efficiency rather than spending all his mental and physical effort trying to squeak out 1.5hp more.

low hanging fruit is extremely rare in the engine power department.

Dude, I agree with everything you've got written here 100%

This is correct, and this is truly the best advice for anyone that wants to "jump in the mix."

How many times can any of us say it: SEAT TIME SEAT TIME SEAT TIME

I take a more open-minded approach to this topic, if your platform does not give you an advantage over DSMs, I do not care what body you use! So, as long as you are heavier than some of the lightest AWD DSMs, I would count your record.

But I am just one guy

Thank the heavens..........haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Like I said I was going for the awd record. As for some of you thinking I must be funny, to combat that here is my setup:
complete g4cs 2.4 stroker
tuned with dsmlink v2.5 utilizing a 2g mas
680cc injectors along with dual walbros
extrude honed 1g intake manifold
Ksport gt pro coilovers
lexan windows
no interior besides dashboard and drivers seat
and so on and so on.
It seems like a lot of you like to think this is a joke or something? What is there no support anymore these days?

My favorite part of your list is "no interior"

Well my 14b gave out last night on the way to the drag strip. I've been WOT tuning for the past several days and it was pulling hard but still dropping boost in the higher rpms and only flowing 29-30 lbs/min. When I swapped on the 7cm hotside I did notice that there was wheel damage but I figured I give it another try... it only lasted 100 more miles. It didn't blow a seal or explode or go out in a blaze of glory but it started making all kinds of noises and the shaft feels like a loose tooth. Time to find another one!

Oh damn man that blows......sorry to hear.....been there.....at least it didn't make a total mess...however gotta check your intake tract now for sure. Good luck with repairing it. At least it's super early in the season.

 

[91stocker]

I still think if 95GSXracer wanted it, he could have it. I mean look what he did with a far from optimal 16g set up. If a proper set up rwd wanted all these small frame records, its there for the taking imo.

Id love to see him drop in a high comp motor for the 14b and 16g with proper sized IM and tire. It would "decimate all".

 

[Phil1320]

Good thing they can still be found pretty cheap eh! Glad to hear the car is up and running, you've going to have to post some pics when you finally make it to the track.

Also congrats to Phil for being the featured member, guess who nominated him first . You've been a great inspiration over the last couple years and I appreciate all the advice you freely share here. Same goes for alot of the people on here of course.

I can attest to these guys who've been there and done it, although I've never come close to any "record" I've been going down this road for a while now. Last year hitting 12.05 I figured I had 11's in the bag, soon after I send a rod through the side of my block getting a little crazy with some washers on the wastegate. This year I'm not even sure the car will see a dragstrip. I've been trying to piece together an idea to make it happen but we'll see how it goes, patience will be a virtue. It's a more difficult road then people think and just copying what you've seen work before isn't necessarily going to net you the same times. Seat time, patience, more seat time, proper tuning, and more seat time is the name of the game even with the perfect combination of parts and weight. Constantly tweaking things, including and maybe most importantly the driver, is the road you're setting on when chasing fast small turbo times. Now just since I typed that somebody is going to go out and run a fast time first time out right

Thanks man, I appreciate it! Really cool!

We've all had some issues over the last year for sure. My biggest issue of course, is just plain getting to the track. I always preach seat time.....and it's the thing that I lack the most in my current-to-be set-up.

I still think if 95GSXracer wanted it, he could have it. I mean look what he did with a far from optimal 16g set. If a proper set up rwd wanted all these small frame records, its there for the taking imo.

Id love to see him drop in a high comp motor for the 14b and 16g with proper sized IM and tire. It would "decimate all".

Whomever wants to go do whatever and claim whatever record they want, "its there for the taking."

In this thread, the key players and other interested parties have talked about this and as I remember, all were in a agreement that the RECORDS we speak of here are relevant to the cars and drivetrain configs that the 14b came on/with as the STANDARD ISSUE turbo.

OFF TOPIC:

All I read up here in the Drag Racing Forums are threads that start with : "STOCK BLOCK RECORD."

What the hell is that? I mean really, stock block? Who gives a crap? I apparently need more explanation than that as I'm missing the point and importance.......b/c it seems to be the most talked about in this Forum. So, does stock block mean they still have balance shafts intact. I mean it's super vague and just doesn't make any sense at all to me.

But, it's there for the taking.

END OF OFF-TOPIC

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

So, does stock block mean they still have balance shafts intact. I mean it's super vague and just doesn't make any sense at all to me.

But, it's there for the taking.

END OF OFF-TOPIC

Actually they don't even require balance shafts to be a STOCK BLOCK.

THESE ARE THE RULES FOR ALL STOCK BLOCK RECORD ATTEMPTS 6 OR 7 BOLT!

• OEM uncut crank
• OEM std size pistons
• OEM piston rings
• OEM rods
• OEM main bolts
• OEM rod bolts
• OEM oil pump
• OEM oil pan
• BSE optional

Oh damn man that blows......sorry to hear.....been there.....at least it didn't make a total mess...however gotta check your intake tract now for sure. Good luck with repairing it. At least it's super early in the season.

It's all good, I was able to make it home so no big deal. I'm getting a rebuilt 14b center section from Justin (JusMX141) so it should be good to go now.

 

[SBstar]

The whole 14b record thing is kind of silly if you think about it. Just like the current stock block craze. In the end whoever has the.fastest car wins the race no matter what the setup. However, to distinguish our set goals we use the word "record" to signify the best that's been done thus far. We've discussed it to death but in the end the "rules" are what the majority decides on no matter how insignificant they really are. Personally years ago when I first got into the 14b thing bucci was laying down his times and all I cared about was the 11.64 awd time. To me it was a record because it was the goal I set out to beat. Here I am well over four years and three cars later still trying. But, its no longer a record to me and I think the majority agree the only goal/record is the fastest 14b time period without additional power adders or a separate class with them. Some still might find it dumb limiting yourself to one Turbo or whatever but to our group its important enough to be our record.

 

[emo1010]

Phil you kind of make me wish I wouldn't have just bought a awd auto to play with.

Our car was far from maxed out as far as E.T., every pass we were making improvements but we had to part it out. I was moving out of the state for work and had a second kid on the way. The one goal I was disappointed about not achieving was breaking the 11.50 and getting booted from the track for no cage... We still had some weight to take out too and bigger slicks would have lowered our 60' times too.If you look at a video i was loosing plenty of time with the car torque steering pretty bad. but of course that is all would have, could have should have stuff.

I can see an awd taking the 1/8 mile but almost 2/10th is still alot of time to make up in the 1/8th at this level.

Another thing that hasn't been brought up too much is the parasitic drag of the drivetrian, from what I remember fwd 15% loss and awd is 20-25% loss. Even on the lower end of the difference 5% is alot to give up on top of the weight.

I hope you are not taking this as bashing your effort, just throwing out ideas and opinions. It would be cool as hell to see you prove me wrong.

 

[habitatguy187]

A 14b with a 7cm housing isn't a "standard issue" turbo at all.

 

[Phil1320]

I'm on-board for this as well.

Probably swapping back to street tires just because I don't think the car will stand to gain as much from a good launch on slicks as it could potentially lose bouncing down the track on 15psi in tires that have no sidewall reinforcement. Cutting a good 60-ft on street tires with a 14B should be a no-brainer.

I'm not sure how many would agree with that at all.

It depends what your suspension set up is for the most part.

As just stated elsewhere, I've run just a few ticks under 117 mph on slicks at exactly 15 psi.

About good 60's on street tires being a no-brainer.....that depends on what you consider a good 60' and again, it depends on your suspension set up.

Good luck, I'll be anxious to hear what you can pull off......considering the above.

Actually they don't even require balance shafts to be a STOCK BLOCK.

THESE ARE THE RULES FOR ALL STOCK BLOCK RECORD ATTEMPTS 6 OR 7 BOLT!

• OEM uncut crank
• OEM std size pistons
• OEM piston rings
• OEM rods
• OEM main bolts
• OEM rod bolts
• OEM oil pump
• OEM oil pan
• BSE optional

It's all good, I was able to make it home so no big deal. I'm getting a rebuilt 14b center section from Justin (JusMX141) so it should be good to go now.

Ok....thanks for clerifying.......interesting.......so it's stock SHORT BLOCK.

When I hear stock BLOCK, I think empty stock piece of cast iron. Hence my "what's the big deal" thought on it. How stupid I am

The whole 14b record thing is kind of silly if you think about it. Just like the current stock block craze. In the end whoever has the.fastest car wins the race no matter what the setup. However, to distinguish our set goals we use the word "record" to signify the best that's been done thus far. We've discussed it to death but in the end the "rules" are what the majority decides on no matter how insignificant they really are. Personally years ago when I first got into the 14b thing bucci was laying down his times and all I cared about was the 11.64 awd time. To me it was a record because it was the goal I set out to beat. Here I am well over four years and three cars later still trying. But, its no longer a record to me and I think the majority agree the only goal/record is the fastest 14b time period without additional power adders or a separate class with them. Some still might find it dumb limiting yourself to one Turbo or whatever but to our group its important enough to be our record.

It does seem to get out of hand here and there. However, everyone is entitled to their own idea on it and so it is what it is. It obviously intrigues ALOT more people these days. I just wish some of the phantom set ups would make it on a car so we can see if there really is a secondary power bracket, as in a 350 HP and up 14b power bracket....or is all the exotic upgrading available not able to break out of the standard HP arena that Nate speaks of.....290-300???

I'm sure there's more out there to do, and to see. It's just a matter of when.

Phil you kind of make me wish I wouldn't have just bought a awd auto to play with.

Our car was far from maxed out as far as E.T., every pass we were making improvements but we had to part it out. I was moving out of the state for work and had a second kid on the way. The one goal I was disappointed about not achieving was breaking the 11.50 and getting booted from the track for no cage... We still had some weight to take out too and bigger slicks would have lowered our 60' times too.If you look at a video i was loosing plenty of time with the car torque steering pretty bad. but of course that is all would have, could have should have stuff.

I can see an awd taking the 1/8 mile but almost 2/10th is still alot of time to make up in the 1/8th at this level.

Another thing that hasn't been brought up too much is the parasitic drag of the drivetrian, from what I remember fwd 15% loss and awd is 20-25% loss. Even on the lower end of the difference 5% is alot to give up on top of the weight.

I hope you are not taking this as bashing your effort, just throwing out ideas and opinions. It would be cool as hell to see you prove me wrong.

Sorry man!

You're right 2 tenths is 2 tenths and nothing comes easy, that's for sure.

I'll never argue the driveline at all. I remember how hard my Laser RS used to pull on the highway.....

Definitely not, no harm man, not at all. That's all we can do it toss ideas around and hope that some of them better our efforts!

I don't know that it will be me that proves you wrong....I really think Nate has the best chance to do that, at least within a quicker time frame.

However, I do like to dream

A 14b with a 7cm housing isn't a "standard issue" turbo at all.

Obviously, this is directed at me huh?

First, this is the proper quote, "the cars and drivetrain configs that the 14b came on/with as the STANDARD ISSUE turbo."

I didn't say anything about a 14b with a 7cm housing. Furthermore, if that's directed at me, I haven't run a 7cm housing yet

Last, I see you're still travelling with Ringling Bros......

 

[Kevin Jewer]

I still think if 95GSXracer wanted it, he could have it. I mean look what he did with a far from optimal 16g set up. If a proper set up rwd wanted all these small frame records, its there for the taking imo.

Id love to see him drop in a high comp motor for the 14b and 16g with proper sized IM and tire. It would "decimate all".

I agree, and I don't appreciate you tempting me to try it.

I've given it some thought, and on the RWD those changes likely won't happen. I don't think I can beat the 14b 10.87 on the current setup but I'd still like to see how close it gets. The first run ever on a big 16g was a 10.9, before a lot of the changes that made it fast enough to run the 10.31, so I think it might just dip into the 10s.

I set all of this stuff up so I could transfer it to the mightymax as well if I want to. The truck's setup should still be good for small turbo stuff. ~9:1 2.3 liter, rwd JMF SMIM, tighter converter than the race car, 28x9" drag radial, three speed auto, etc. It's probably ~400 lbs heavier than the RWD but I think it could still go pretty quick. Kait's truck is similar with a 2 liter. Her truck is probably the best bet.

I'm curious to see what the RWD will do for a 60' on a 14b. The converter slip is too high at the launch, but with less power it will slip less too. Power to weight ratio is certainly going to get worse though. I really think the ~1.45s you guys are getting are as good as it gets. Clearing up a little bit of tire spin isn't going to make an appreciable difference, slicks still work very well at 10-15% slippage. In fact you aim for that on a more powerful car, since a dead hook likely to cause problems. The solution is usually to add more starting line power or dial out some traction. If you're skating around, that's a different story. To get from 1.45 to 1.39 is going to take an estimated increase from 385hp to 445hp at my 2400lb weight, for example. Alternatively, it would take a 300 lb weight reduction to do the same thing. Neither of these are easy to do once you're already within striking distance of the record, IMO.

Power to weight is the main factor, everything else is done only to make the tire work. If the tire is working, and a slick (4 of them no less) almost certainly is at these power levels, nothing else you do (suspension, tire pressure, weight transfer, etc) will matter much.

 

[91stocker]

I agree, and I don't appreciate you tempting me to try it.

Hahah

 

[JusMX141]

I'm not sure how many would agree with that at all.

It depends what your suspension set up is for the most part.

As just stated elsewhere, I've run just a few ticks under 117 mph on slicks at exactly 15 psi.

The only evidence I have is some results from another friend using one of my HY35's. Ran all season on street tires, trapping consistent 131-133mph passes but never cut better than a 1.8 60ft netting a best E.T. of 11.10. Ten's were just barely out of reach.

Threw Dave's slicks on the car at the tail end of the season and his first trip to the track went 10.86 with a best MPH on the day of 129. Quicker, yet slower than the street tire passes.