The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[Steve93Talon]

Steve, you're FWD though right? So about 310 AWHP or so.....

Yep, still FWD. I plan to get the car back out within a month or so once the new suspension is swapped, and also maybe toss some cams in. Then I'll be converting back to AWD hopefully by the summer. I've got my old built AWD trans back from the guy I sold it to, it just needs to be re-assembled. Since I've already got the 2 slicks I'll probably pick up 2 more.

As far as the dynapack number.....I made 302 AWHP on the packs about 8 years ago....never did more than 295 on the jets after that....so the pack #s are a bit off I'd say....

Yep, definitely a bit skewed using the dynapack numbers since they're not "wheel" numbers.

I'll most likely be tuning on a jet....but I do have access to a Mustang set up as well. We'll see how they compare out.

I've always used dynojets as the benchmark for comparison, it's rare that you'd find one that doesn't read identically to others. Mustangs and others can be easily manipulated, and though typical Mustangs read lower than a DJ I've seen several that read similarly or even higher.

 

[Phil1320]

Yep, still FWD. I plan to get the car back out within a month or so once the new suspension is swapped, and also maybe toss some cams in. Then I'll be converting back to AWD hopefully by the summer. I've got my old built AWD trans back from the guy I sold it to, it just needs to be re-assembled. Since I've already got the 2 slicks I'll probably pick up 2 more.



Yep, definitely a bit skewed using the dynapack numbers since they're not "wheel" numbers.



I've always used dynojets as the benchmark for comparison, it's rare that you'd find one that doesn't read identically to others. Mustangs and others can be easily manipulated, and though typical Mustangs read lower than a DJ I've seen several that read similarly or even higher.

Cool......agreed on all points. I think the Dynapacks are a nice tuning tool and are safest as well. I also like that they are mobile. However, I like the good ole Dynojets. I've run once on the Aussie(I think) Dyno Dynamics and I wasn't super impressed with it personally.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

The only dyno that typically reads lower than a Mustang is dynodynamics. Some mustangs and DDs read close though. Dynojet is higher than both, Land and Seas read even higher than Dynojets. Not sure about the Dynapacks. They all claim to be the most accurate. Some shops do manipulate the calibration or settings on mustangs to try to match a dynojet to avoid having to deal with hurt feelings. DJs are by far the most popular so they are usually considered the standard. I've done many comparisons between different types of unmolested dynos on my cars and my friends cars and the percentage offsets are always repeatable. I forget the exact numbers, but Mustangs are usually around 13-15% less than DJ, and DD are about 15-17%. There are exceptions. I also ran my EVO on a local MD and Buschur's MD, which were both built in the same week, and got almost the exact same power reading. Pretty cool. Also interesting that MD and DD are so close. Either way, it's hard to compare unless everyone uses the same type at least.

 

[RipperXX]

Comparing dyno numbers is largely useless anyway. I say if you want to compare something, compare ET times. (taking into account cars weight of course)

 

[Phil1320]

The only dyno that typically reads lower than a Mustang is dynodynamics. Some mustangs and DDs read close though. Dynojet is higher than both, Land and Seas read even higher than Dynojets. Not sure about the Dynapacks. They all claim to be the most accurate. Some shops do manipulate the calibration or settings on mustangs to try to match a dynojet to avoid having to deal with hurt feelings. DJs are by far the most popular so they are usually considered the standard. I've done many comparisons between different types of unmolested dynos on my cars and my friends cars and the percentage offsets are always repeatable. I forget the exact numbers, but Mustangs are usually around 13-15% less than DJ, and DD are about 15-17%. There are exceptions. I also ran my EVO on a local MD and Buschur's MD, which were both built in the same week, and got almost the exact same power reading. Pretty cool. Also interesting that MD and DD are so close. Either way, it's hard to compare unless everyone uses the same type at least.

Cool......I'd agree that Dynojet is still the standard and just like ET correction, all dyno numbers should be corrected to match

Comparing dyno numbers is largely useless anyway. I say if you want to compare something, compare ET times. (taking into account cars weight of course)

Well, I don't know if I'd go as far as to say useless, however, comparing numbers from every dyno under the sun could be closer to useless.

Noone will ever agree more than me that it's 95% about ET. Especially since there's no solid way to compare power to weight. We can always toss numbers around though.

Right now, my car is approx. 6.28 lbs. per HP I'm looking to be as close to 5.0 lbs. per HP as possible.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Yes phil, 325 was to all 4 wheels, and Nate why do you always gotta speak like your sh*t don't stink. It seems to me you just have something rotten or wise to say about my post.

You need to relax, nothing I said was "rotten" or mean in any mean spirit. The curt brown comment was based in the fact that you have come in here and claimed a wildly erroneous 460hp from a 14b AND are talking about chasing a record while at the same time been rather "secret squirrel" about what makes your combo different than all the rest of us.

Curt (mostly his nut swingers, Iv never known Curt himself to come on forums and brag at all!) does this and it drives me crazy...keep secrets about why/what is the difference in setup then try to maintain that Curt just has some fairy dust that makes everything he touches 100hp high and 1 second faster. That wouldn't bother me in the slightest that he doesn't want to divulge his performance advantages. What drives me off the wall is that everyone eats it up. Last year we had a poster in here that would constantly name drop curt and was trying to talk a big game about smoking all of us with his magic 14b combo that Curt was helping with (it never materialized, nor did any pics, dyno, slips, logs, or real info). IMHO it was all BS talk.

Show us pics, show us datalogs, dyno sheets, timeslips. Give us some information to go on that supports your assertion that the AWD record is within reach. You have made some big claims (even if it turns out the 460hp/480ftlb was simply calculating error), but haven't corrected or supported it.

So what power is your car ACTUALLY making via DSMlink calculation with a correct total weight. (I believe link calculates hp/tq from delta rpm vs time with a known constant weight). Do you even have a correct scale measured weight for the car?

just for comparison, DSMlink is spitting out about 210hp/220ftlb for my street car at 3350 total weight (~3120 car + 230lb me) My car is full weight auto awd with about 75lb removed (ac, cruise, abs, misc crap during engine swap). That's through stock exhaust, intake, cams, stock pump and injectors, at 15psi boost. seems relatively ballpark. Ill post a comparison hopefully tonight or tomorrow after I swap on 880cc inj, walbro 255hp, and a 3" exhaust. May also add the AIT and SD convert today if I have some time.

I apologize if I come off as a rotten mean spirited a-hole. I really don't intend it that way. I'v simply grown callous to big talk/no results in this thread after nearly 100 pages. Go back and see the hassle I gave to Hubbel last year and you will see you have gotten the light end.

BTW...see you at Island March 10th or 11th? are you planning for sat or sunday? I'll meet you there and we can make a 14b grudge race...hahaha..(you should smoke my bloated street car) sucks that Island Dragway has no working scale!

 

[GRNDSM]

Guys, please keep the dyno discussion out this thread! Just state what dyno you used and leave it at that!

This thread is big enough and doesn't need another controversial sub-topic .

Quck update on my 14b Summit Wagon: I got some 16" Volk TE37 wheels and that made me want to watch the weight . So Summit is now on a diet. But just as was the case with the Green Machine, I am not cutting anything that isn't bolted onto the car. So it isn't going to featherweight.

 

[91stocker]

sucks that Island Dragway has no working scale!

I've always went to the local scrap yard. Just drive it over the scales. I trust their weights since weight is money for those guys.

My car was pretty hefty for a stock 1g. About 3160 bone stock w/o me in it. This was in a non abs car, auto, awd.

 

[Phil1320]

Guys, please keep the dyno discussion out this thread! Just state what dyno you used and leave it at that!

This thread is big enough and doesn't need another controversial sub-topic .

Quck update on my 14b Summit Wagon: I got some 16" Volk TE37 wheels and that made me want to watch the weight . So Summit is now on a diet. But just as was the case with the Green Machine, I am not cutting anything that isn't bolted onto the car. So it isn't going to featherweight.

Yes Master We can discuss what ever the hell we want, who the hell are you anyway!?

You need to relax, nothing I said was "rotten" or mean in any mean spirit. The curt brown comment was based in the fact that you have come in here and claimed a wildly erroneous 460hp from a 14b AND are talking about chasing a record while at the same time been rather "secret squirrel" about what makes your combo different than all the rest of us.

Curt (mostly his nut swingers, Iv never known Curt himself to come on forums and brag at all!) does this and it drives me crazy...keep secrets about why/what is the difference in setup then try to maintain that Curt just has some fairy dust that makes everything he touches 100hp high and 1 second faster. That wouldn't bother me in the slightest that he doesn't want to divulge his performance advantages. What drives me off the wall is that everyone eats it up. Last year we had a poster in here that would constantly name drop curt and was trying to talk a big game about smoking all of us with his magic 14b combo that Curt was helping with (it never materialized, nor did any pics, dyno, slips, logs, or real info). IMHO it was all BS talk.


BTW...see you at Island March 10th or 11th? are you planning for sat or sunday? I'll meet you there and we can make a 14b grudge race...hahaha..(you should smoke my bloated street car) sucks that Island Dragway has no working scale!

This is hilarious!

Also, has island dragway paved their drive in yet or is it still an off-road excursion to get there from the main road? I may come down with my daily driver when you go.....

 

[GRNDSM]

Sounds about right for an automatic tranny, which is heavier.

But the amount of gas in tank is also important. At ~7lbs per gallon, the difference between 3-5 gallons (min required to run stock tank) and a full tank is about 80lbs!

 

[91stocker]

Sounds about right for an automatic tranny, which is heavier.

But the amount of gas in tank is also important. At ~7lbs per gallon, the difference between 3-5 gallons (min required to run stock tank) and a full tank is about 80lbs!

I ran it about as low as i could to get the most accurate weight i could. It was really just me trying to get a base number i can work from. I couldnt believe an abs car would have weighed over 3200lbs.

Also, has island dragway paved their drive in yet or is it still an off-road excursion to get there from the main road? I may come down with my daily driver when you go.....

The track closest to me is like that haha. A nice mud run up. Last time i ever went there, i pulled in with a stang i had at the time and seen a old muscle car with slicks stuck in the mud on the run up. Never been back since.

 

[Nate Crisman]

This is hilarious!

Also, has island dragway paved their drive in yet or is it still an off-road excursion to get there from the main road? I may come down with my daily driver when you go.....

Island is still a dirt road driveway. W/ trailer...5-7mph max! Shit, we are lucky the track has pavement let alone the driveway.

I'm not sure what day yet. Let Mr4G decide, either is fine with me.

On another note: my 14b daily got a walbro 255hp fuel pump and a 3" exhaust today. I ran Ito troubles as usual..snapped all 6 studs on the tank and had I swap it for one on the shelves. Then the exhaust didnt fit: Apexi catback, Megan dp & tp. They are about 6" apart in the middle and the flanges aren't rotated correctly, so I'll have to make an adapter. Right now I'm rocking an open downpipe...deafening coming from stock exhaust!

Tomorrow I'll fix the exhaust and swap in the 880's. Then put a gm air temp sensor and gm map sensor in for SD use. Then I'll hook the aem 5bar sensor up to the EGR port so I can finally give some info to the thread about back pressure vs boost on a 14b/7cm.

On another note: I'm acquiring a td05h 20g this weekend that will go on this car a lot with a bigger air/water core. I'll not be rocking the 14 for long sadly.

 

[GRNDSM]

On another note: I'm acquiring a td05h 20g this weekend that will go on this car a lot with a bigger air/water core. I'll not be rocking the 14 for long sadly.

Come on! I have been sitting on a perfectly fine 16g, but you do not see me putting it in !

 

[Nate Crisman]

Come on! I have been sitting on a perfectly fine 16g, but you do not see me putting it in !

The 14b stuff is fun and all when there is a record to chase & quick times to be had. But in a full weight 3100lb plus behemoth....not as much fun.

Once iv run w/ 14b at track and collected the data I want to learn from, I'm going up in turbo so the car has enough power to run in the solid 11's without a ton of "track day prep".

 

[Mr4G]

Nate, first off, you do come off as mean spirited and you always talk like the way you do things is the all god way. Everytime I have talked to you in person it's about you. I have a 12.0 timeslip for a 14b on a bone stock 6 bolt. The car made a lot more power obviously with my 2.4 setup. Unfortunatly that setup spun a rod bearing as I posted earlier but the car had a very noticable difference. If you read back I posted a lot of good information about what my setup in my car is. This my friend is why more and more people are loosing interest in dsms' and cars in general. It's because of forum posters like you who come on and instead of directing people or discussing the subject in an appropriate manner, you start bashing them make unnecasary comments. I know I am well within grasp of the awd record without having you assume I'm another dumb idiot. Nate when you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Nate, first off, you do come off as mean spirited and you always talk like the way you do things is the all god way. Everytime I have talked to you in person it's about you. I have a 12.0 timeslip for a 14b on a bone stock 6 bolt. The car made a lot more power obviously with my 2.4 setup. Unfortunatly that setup spun a rod bearing as I posted earlier but the car had a very noticable difference. If you read back I posted a lot of good information about what my setup in my car is. This my friend is why more and more people are loosing interest in dsms' and cars in general. It's because of forum posters like you who come on and instead of directing people or discussing the subject in an appropriate manner, you start bashing them make unnecasary comments. I know I am well within grasp of the awd record without having you assume I'm another dumb idiot. Nate when you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME.

Well I'm sorry we got off on a bad foot. I apologize. Seems I must have slighted you at the track as well...sorry. I'm very "tunnel visioned" at the track. I don't go there to socialize, I go there to work on setup. If people come by my pit/car....I talk about my current situation, but I generally don't take/have time to go check out everyone else running unless it really sparks interest. Anyway, I really do apologize if I came off dickish!

As for your info posted before (I just went back and re-read the whole thing), it was a standard basic mod list with nothing out of the ordinary other than a 2.4 block, thus no reason or detail that would suggest to everyone here with experience in 14b that it would produce more power than similar setups. If you have something different going on that you think will make MORE power than the rest of us...let us know and we'll discuss! Shit, you didn't even tell us what cams, compression, fuel, or intercooler setup your running. With nothing to go on, we have nothing to talk about.

As a side note, IMO, a 2.4l will make the same total power as a 2.0L, just in a different rpm spread. We haven't seen a strong car run on the big block yet to know for sure, but the airflow limit is still the 14b compressor. I'd guestimate that the 2.4l bottom will make more torque down low, spool even earlier, and the boost pressure drop will be even worse up top leading to the same hp. BUT this could still be an advantage if you have the traction to come out on full torque AND have the gear ratio matched up well to come through the traps at low enough rpm. I think the 2.4 would help an auto car leave harder, but not sure if a clutch car can use it.

You didn't give a total weight or a list of lightweight parts. Why should we assume you have any realistic advantage there over Phil's super lightweight setup?

AND. I wasn't the only one asking for more details...emo1010, Phil both asked to genuinely hear more about the setup at first. I specifically asked to hear what was different in your setup from the rest of us hoping to spark up discussion of a different setup or hopefully something out of the box.

To which you replied:
"I'll post my setup if I'm able to break the record"

Then Leon makes note of your being secretive. Dave asks if you have made shakedowns yet...

Then you basically said that your running radial tires and annihilating them! The radial tires alone are a non starter for a "record attempt car", no one can get the mid 1.4 to 1.3 second 60' needed on a radial. I specifically replied to that post with good info about the absolute need for slicks and 60'. Where was no bashing in that post, simply the reality of the traction issue your going to run into. If you aren't going to run slicks and 60' in the 1.4's at least, then discussion about record setting is moot. Even our resident "big power guy" Pnuemo isn't able to make up enough mph to cover for a lack of traction without full slicks.


I don't assume your a dumb idiot. I do assume that you will hit the same brick walls that the rest of us have have hit already, and until you give us some better information as to WHY and HOW your going to overcome those brick walls, it's a fair assumption. It has nothing to do with intelligence, and everything to do with experience. This group, myself included, is ALWAYS ready and willing to discuss and productively comment on real info and different setups. Phil, Leon, Dave, Bucci, myself,and pretty much everyone on this thread actually doing this is 100% open and willing to share our collective experience and opinions on setup, tuning, and performance. You shouldn't get all uppity about being questioned when you don't give us any real info to converse about.

I CERTAINLY don't think my way of doing things is the only way! Shit, between me, Phil, and Dave...we have like .25 second ET difference and barely any setup or parts in common. Yet the performance is so similar! There are 10 different ways to skin this cat.

My challenge to you is to contribute and show us in this thread: what you're going to do that is above and beyond what's already been done. What is different about your car, setup, method. That's the only way progress will be made and so far, we have all been making that progress together as a group. Thinking outside the box and going above and beyond. The record is going to stand until someone takes the power/weight/efficiency all together to another level.


Now on a positive note: You mentioned using a NT block. With stock NT pistons? Those are 9:0 compression correct? Small valve relieves? Any issues with piston/valve contact with bigger cams? I have one in the shop now and was considering it for 14b use since the small turbo can never make enough power to break the "supposedly" weaker pistons. Just wondering if the piston/valve clearance was an issue. Please post results!



You going to island or etown for mar 10-11 weekend?

 

[Mr4G]

I planned to go to e town on the 11th, but i spun a rod bearing in the 2.4 while trying to retune the dsmlink for the added airflow like I posted before(remember, even if the 14b starts to choke the 2.4 inhales and exhales 20% more air). As for the 2.4 not making the power in the higher end with the 14b, I actually noticed my powerband carried higher in the rpm then the 2.0 did. My stock 2.0 seemed to die off around 6400 and the 2.4 I felt like it kept wanting to go, as a matter of fact I was able to get a clean pull all the way to 7400 logging knock and timing only though. at that point I had an oil pump failure and lost oil pressure and developed a rod knock on the cylinder closets to the trans. My cams are fp5r cams, my head was ported and polished by this company in Florida by a shop that specializes in building performance ls1s. I run an extrude hones 1g intake mani, the car has lexan windows, a lot of the metal on the inside has been hacked out, im running a dogbox racing built trans with a welded center diff. I utilize a buschur racing fmic with custom homemade hard piping, dsmlink v2.5. Is there anymore questions you would like answered about the car?

 

[Kevin Jewer]

I planned to go to e town on the 11th, but i spun a rod bearing in the 2.4 while trying to retune the dsmlink for the added airflow like I posted before(remember, even if the 14b starts to choke the 2.4 inhales and exhales 20% more air). As for the 2.4 not making the power in the higher end with the 14b, I actually noticed my powerband carried higher in the rpm then the 2.0 did. My stock 2.0 seemed to die off around 6400 and the 2.4 I felt like it kept wanting to go, as a matter of fact I was able to get a clean pull all the way to 7400 logging knock and timing only though.

A couple things seem off here. The 14b will max out at it's ~32 lbs or whatever regardless of what size motor it's on. The compressor wheel is the limiter. Boost will be lower than on a 2 liter at the same airflow as a result of that 20% throughput, but that's not a bad thing. Your post implies that the 2.4l will give you 20% air out of the 14b, which isn't the case. Additionally, running v2.5, you're on an airflow sensor or some kind, so there's really no need to retune when airflow changes, the sensor and ECU take care of that automatically. People waste a lot of time overtuning when there is no need. The fact that it kept pulling at higher rpm can probably be attributed to the 5R cams, those are made for a pretty high rpm power band. And in that, I think you have a mismatch. The 2.4 will improve low end power, the big cams high end power. Those two things are competing with each other. I'd switch back to some milder cams and shift at lower rpm to use that motor where it wants to run. Another thing to keep in mind is that the power curve essentially follows the airflow/time curve, and the torque curve will generally follow the airflow/rev curve. You can use this to make better comparisons of these combos as you change things.

 

[Phil1320]

Island is still a dirt road driveway. W/ trailer...5-7mph max! Shit, we are lucky the track has pavement let alone the driveway.

I'm not sure what day yet. Let Mr4G decide, either is fine with me.

On another note: my 14b daily got a walbro 255hp fuel pump and a 3" exhaust today. I ran Ito troubles as usual..snapped all 6 studs on the tank and had I swap it for one on the shelves. Then the exhaust didnt fit: Apexi catback, Megan dp & tp. They are about 6" apart in the middle and the flanges aren't rotated correctly, so I'll have to make an adapter. Right now I'm rocking an open downpipe...deafening coming from stock exhaust!

Tomorrow I'll fix the exhaust and swap in the 880's. Then put a gm air temp sensor and gm map sensor in for SD use. Then I'll hook the aem 5bar sensor up to the EGR port so I can finally give some info to the thread about back pressure vs boost on a 14b/7cm.

On another note: I'm acquiring a td05h 20g this weekend that will go on this car a lot with a bigger air/water core. I'll not be rocking the 14 for long sadly.

Yeah those studs on the tank are not only weak, but so much dirt and crap lands up there and holds moisture.

That car will be cool with a 20g. Great street turbo for sure....

 

[Nate Crisman]

Yeah those studs on the tank are not only weak, but so much dirt and crap lands up there and holds moisture.

That car will be cool with a 20g. Great street turbo for sure....

Yeah, this car sat for the better part of a decade (since 2001) and the top of the fuel tank looked like a squirrel nest. It was nasty!

I'v got a 3" exhaust on it now. Boost is tuned up to 20psi via DSMlink boost control. With 390cc injectors @ 48psi base pressure, Im running mid 10's for A/F with the injectors static. The car is kinda strange to launch, as it will do a rwd burnout on the converter when it gets to about 14psi of boost! hahaha funny. I would assume it will stay steady on slicks though, so kinda moot. Really needs the center diff welded.

Will see about injector swap, adding the AIT, and getting it ready to hit the track in 2 weeks. I'd guestimate it would run in the mid to high 12's the way it is now. Nothing super impressive, but it's pretty fun.

I dsmlink v2.5. Is there anymore questions you would like answered about the car?

Can you post a log from when it had the 2.4L?

Seems like some pretty big cam/head combo for a 14b, it would have been very very interesting to see how it ran with the big block. Sucks that it had the rod bearing fail. We pretty much have no data to go on for discussion of displacement vs turbo limitations other than theory. It would have been nice to see a timeslip, log, and setup to have some real world data on the 2.4L to work from.

I would also like to hear more about the NT bottom end your currently using. Have any issues with piston/valve contact with the large cams due to the smaller valve relieves in the NT pistons? Any compression data to report (compression test vs theoretical)?

The 14b will max out at it's ~32 lbs or whatever regardless of what size motor it's on. The compressor wheel is the limiter. Boost will be lower than on a 2 liter at the same airflow as a result of that 20% throughput, but that's not a bad thing. Your post implies that the 2.4l will give you 20% air out of the 14b, which isn't the case.

The fact that it kept pulling at higher rpm can probably be attributed to the 5R cams, those are made for a pretty high rpm power band. And in that, I think you have a mismatch. The 2.4 will improve low end power, the big cams high end power. Those two things are competing with each other. I'd switch back to some milder cams and shift at lower rpm to use that motor where it wants to run.

I concur. Taking this out into non-existant application, lets just say you put a single 14b on a mythical 4L I4 shortblock that "should" move 100% more airflow than a 2L....does it produce nearly 600hp??? (assuming a top notch 4G63 makes ~300 with a 32lb/min 14b).

I would assume a 4L bottom with a single 14b will still be restricted to ~350hp but will simply make that 350hp at about half the RPM the 2.0:L will. It would have a useful powerband from 1500-4500rpm or so instead of 3500-7000rpm, but still produce about the same total power.

If you could tailer the traction and gear ratio to match that 1500-4500rpm powerband, would it have an advantage over a 2L with gearing matched to 3500-7000?

My opinion of the 2.4L is the same as Kevin, in that it just moves the useful powerband around but when it's airflow limited by compressor size, won't make any additional ultimate power compared to the 2.0. It just makes the same power earlier. On a large turbo, the advantages in spool can create a longer/bigger powerband when there is airflow capacity in the turbo to support it. But with a 14b/16g size turbo, we are always up against the compressor limitation before anything else.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

With the larger displacement moving more air at less boost, the advantages are essentially those that come with running less boost. Less heat in the air, and a lower drive pressure to boost pressure ratio. Airflow is power, boost is heat. How much power stands to be gained from that, I don't know. It's not a whole lot, but it is something. One way to think about it might be to consider an NA engine that moves 32 lb/min with no boost and how much power that might make. The bigger the displacement when compressor limited, the closer you get to this arrangement. At some point when displacement goes above that level where boost becomes zero, the turbo becomes a restriction and the motor should act as it would with restrictor of the same diamter of the compressor inlet. Just throwing that out there for something think about, technical accuracy and exact numbers aren't important.

 

[GRNDSM]

Guys, you know I am not a huge fan of a 2.3/2.4 engines in the first place, given a big turbo they should be making more power than 2.0 engines, but they just don't...

However, on 14b, you will hit those 32lbs at lower RPMs and that will kill your power! It actually makes sense that it will make less power than a 14b on a 2.0! You will probably have your full boost at 2200-2300rpms, and could break 14b peak torque records, but then what? This might be a great streetable set-up, if you do not like lag or great for AutoXing, but if you drag race it, I see slower ETs and more broken drivetrain parts!

 

[Mr4G]

Nate, I havent yet done anything with the non turbo bottem end yet. I'm picking it up this weekend yet and plan to experiment a little bit. as for the logs I can't promise much as i may have only one log saved on my tuners laptop before the oil pump went bad. GRNDSM, I have to say my opinion differs very much from yours, I've used this engine before in my blue talon with a different setup and never had a drivetrain breakage problem as well as now. Also There was a huge and very noticable difference in power between the 2.0 and 2.4. I do believe my e.t. would have deffinetly been lower, albeit the car would spin crazy out of the hole. Wish the oil pump didnt fail so i could've gotten more information for you guys.

 

[GRNDSM]

As a "man of science", I do not value testimonies based on "feel". I need well collected, experimental data! Show me something conclusive and I will gladly chance my opinion!

 

[Phil1320]

as a "man of science", i do not value testimonies based on "feel". I need well collected, experimental data! Show me something conclusive and i will gladly chance my opinion!

Most of the time, that's all you get.

I never datalogged once, never even looked at one. Still ran like a bat outta hell. But, as much stock as you put in it...apparently, I'd be a whole hell of a lot quicker than I am. I think that's funny.