The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[Mr4G]

The only shakedown passes on the new setup I have done have been down an empty street. Honestly the car feels like it is at least half a second faster then when I ran the 12.0. The only problem is when I did a test launch, the car sits in one place. I may have to plumb in my stage brake and come off the stage brake instead of two step, or find a set of slicks to use for the race. I can't get any traction in 1st gear at all and 2nd at higher rpm's, the car starts to get squirly.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Honestly the car feels like it is at least half a second faster then when I ran the 12.0.

The only problem is when I did a test launch, the car sits in one place.

I can't get any traction in 1st gear at all and 2nd at higher rpm's, the car starts to get squirly.

Yeah, you going to absolutely with out a doubt going to need drag slicks to come anywhere close to 10s w/ only 113-115mph. It's going to take a sub 2400lb awd car, ~340hp, and will need a low 1.4 to mid 1.3 60' w/ perfect on track efficiency to run near the record.

With the 14b, it's relatively easy to get the engine to make 95% of the possible power a 14b compressor can deliver. Just about anyone that has run low 12' with a 14b can attest to how relatively simple the engine combo is to run about 112-113mph but then you seem to hit a brick wall on engine power, where you start changing parts and not seeing any significant mph gain at the track. (Ask Phil, Leon, and Dave how frustrating it is to try making mph gains from 14b power!!!)

Case in point last season when I burned up my fancy ported race head w/ SS valves, TI valve train upgrades, and GSC S2 cams. I swapped it for a bone stock old "junkyard" 2g head complete with stock 2g cams.....the car ran exactly the same 11.7@112 It very much seems that going from mild engine combo to wild engine combo most often nets disappointment.

The 14b record is ALL about traction, efficiency, & weight. Engine power seems to be the least of the issues since it's very easy to get very close to the max power.

None of us think this is a joke at all! And I will welcome anyone that wants to try and put a competitive 14b car together. It's just that we have seen alot of chatter about "Im going to do it" over the years, alot of "cars being built" to shoot for the record, and rarely results. We are a little jaded, I guess, when it comes to new entries w/ high expectations.

There is a reason the record has stood for nearly a decade now.....

IT'S FREAKING INSANE HARD It's not like all of us are idiots and just can't get it done.


When you do run w/ the 2.4L, please post a log along with an accurate total weight. The large displacement engine is one of the things I have been contemplating with the auto/awd as I genuinely think I can handle more torque. (My car leaves at max rpm/max boost and can't even squeek a tire...I could use more launch power at ~45000rpm) If I had more bottom end power, I would think I could get into the 1.38 60' range. Right now Im limited to mid 1.4's with the 2.0l engine. Anyway, I would love to see how the boost/airflow log looks on a 2.4L as well as what the mph/weight ratio ends up at.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Just about anyone that has run low 12' with a 14b can attest to how relatively simple the engine combo is to run about 112-113mph but then you seem to hit a brick wall on engine power, where you start changing parts and not seeing any significant mph gain at the track. (Ask Phil, Leon, and Dave how frustrating it is to try making mph gains from 14b power!!!)

Case in point, I hit 113.5 last spring and was only running a 14.1 (FWD, Street tires). I've since upped to a 7cm housing, HKS 264's, Hoosier drag radials and lost about 100 lbs. I can't wait to get on the track again in the very near future (next few weeks)!

 

[Nate Crisman]

Case in point, I hit 113.5 last spring and was only running a 14.1 (FWD, Street tires). I've since upped to a 7cm housing, HKS 264's, Hoosier drag radials and lost about 100 lbs. I can't wait to get on the track again in the very near future (next few weeks)!

Keep us posted! Very interested to see if you pick up significant mph from the 7cm/264's. Do you have any logs to compare before/after the cams/housing swap?

 

[emo1010]

The 14b record is ALL about traction, efficiency, & weight. Engine power seems to be the least of the issues since it's very easy to get very close to the max power.

This is why i think the 14b record will always be held by a FWD. I think especially at this power level the traction needed for a fwd is obtainable with slicks at which point the awd gives up its one advantage it has and really shows it's biggest disadvantage, weight. Just my opinion, though.

 

[Mr4G]

Nate, you watched me run a 12.2 with a 14b at island the day after the hood latch broke on your durango.

 

[Steve93Talon]

This is why i think the 14b record will always be held by a FWD. I think especially at this power level the traction needed for a fwd is obtainable with slicks at which point the awd gives up its one advantage it has and really shows it's biggest disadvantage, weight. Just my opinion, though.

Sounds easy in theory. My 2300 lb, 321whp 14b FWD setup on slicks ran 12.4 @ 114.5 last season. Best 60' was a high 1.8. Even with perfect traction and launch, it's a LONG road to 10.8s.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Nate, you watched me run a 12.2 with a 14b at island the day after the hood latch broke on your durango.

Cool. I have a hard time putting real life people to their screen names. Good luck...see ya at island openin weekend for some aws 14b action?

 

[emo1010]

We went 11.76@113 with low1.7 high 1.6 60'.

Here is a quick list of what the car had.
BASICS & SUSPENSION
90 fwd laser
It's completly gutted it weighs 2020lbs
sparco race seat
5 point harness
painless wiring control box(ie power switchs)
Stock 6bolt(sans the balance shafts)
stock trans.
kyb gr2's with ebay coil overs
ploy. motor mounts
22" slicks
14b
2G manifold

MODS
1 gallon fuel cell filled w/ c16
-8 an feed to rail -6an return
aeromotive fuel ps reg.
450cc injectors
walbro 255 extranl fuel pump
Maft translator
gm 3" maf and translator.
super afc
pwr 8" liquid to air I/c
ebay o2 housing modified to use external gate
ebay external gate w/17psi spring
2.5 to 3" exhaust
aluminum fly wheel
act 2600 fly.

I was not trying to imply 10.86 was an easy road. I was just stating my opinion on why I think the record will always be fwd.

 

[pneumo]

(Ask Phil, Leon, and Dave how frustrating it is to try making mph gains from 14b power!!!)

I dunno. If you ask me I conquered the 113mph barrier once I got into the ecu and started tuning aggressively. I made consistent mph gains when I was pushing the 14b and ended the season going 118mph.
Phil went 116.7mph after getting a custom chip I tweaked for him, among other important mods.

 

[Nate Crisman]

I dunno. If you ask me I conquered the 113mph barrier once I got into the ecu and started tuning aggressively. I made consistent mph gains when I was pushing the 14b and ended the season going 118mph.
Phil went 116.7mph after getting a custom chip I tweaked for him, among other important mods.

I wasn't saying it doesn't happen, just that it's difficult. In my experience, it seems one can slap just about any setup together with a 14b...crank the boost to max, and with reasonable tune and octane: Go about 112-113mph. And from that point on, it takes skill and effort to scratch out 1mph here and 1mph there IF it happens at all.


My overall point is that the power potential is so low, I really think a newcomer to the record is bet served getting a 95% engine combo and spending his effort on weight, traction, and efficiency rather than spending all his mental and physical effort trying to squeak out 1.5hp more.

low hanging fruit is extremely rare in the engine power department.

 

[pats16valve]

Will the record count if its not a DSM? I've been watching this thread for a while and have considered going at it with my auto summit. The car has gone 11.50's on a EVO3 16G. Small Turbos are more fun I think.

 

[e85_4g63]

Not being an a$$hat at all here, but this is open (the record) to anyone with a turbo 1g or GVR4 right? I thought I saw that in the "rules". As long as the car came stock with the 14b.

*** edit *** I wasn't implying that I'm going after the 14b record, just asking.

 

[GRNDSM]

I take a more open-minded approach to this topic, if your platform does not give you an advantage over DSMs, I do not care what body you use! So, as long as you are heavier than some of the lightest AWD DSMs, I would count your record.

But I am just one guy

 

[Mr4G]

Im going for the awd record, not the fwd record, I'm only doing this for kicks and giggles, after i mess around with this setup for a little I'm going back to a borg warner turbo probably.

 

[91stocker]

This is why i think the 14b record will always be held by a FWD.

Im willing to bet a nice rwd set up could take it. Same light weight, with a better launch. Trans break launch ftw.

 

[pats16valve]

I take a more open-minded approach to this topic, if your platform does not give you an advantage over DSMs, I do not care what body you use! So, as long as you are heavier than some of the lightest AWD DSMs, I would count your record.

But I am just one guy

, the car is 2400 full dress. I'll have to add 800 pounds.

 

[GRNDSM]

With the driver?

Actually, you aren't that far off! Some of most stripped DSMs are in the same range!

 

[1SloEvo]

Actually I think he is a bit off...I believe the record holder was right at 2k pounds...or just under 2k. And the launch thing would be hard to beat too....I think he was cutting a 1.5x 60' time on the FWD. I am pretty sure Phil was in the high 1.4x 60' time range with AWD, but still very tough to do.

 

[GRNDSM]

I was talking about AWD cars, which are around 2200lbs (without the driver).

 

[talondave]

I'm not going for any records, but I'm going to be putting a 14b on my car this spring for fun and see what happens.

 

[pneumo]

I wasn't saying it doesn't happen, just that it's difficult. In my experience, it seems one can slap just about any setup together with a 14b...crank the boost to max, and with reasonable tune and octane: Go about 112-113mph. And from that point on, it takes skill and effort to scratch out 1mph here and 1mph there IF it happens at all.


My overall point is that the power potential is so low, I really think a newcomer to the record is bet served getting a 95% engine combo and spending his effort on weight, traction, and efficiency rather than spending all his mental and physical effort trying to squeak out 1.5hp more.

low hanging fruit is extremely rare in the engine power department.

I agree with that. I'd just like to add that seat time is also a large factor. When I was going for the 14b record I was able to hit the track almost every two weeks. It's a great way to try out different mods, tuning, and driving techniques. It's also important for keeping your enthusiasm up since there can be setbacks.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Well my 14b gave out last night on the way to the drag strip. I've been WOT tuning for the past several days and it was pulling hard but still dropping boost in the higher rpms and only flowing 29-30 lbs/min. When I swapped on the 7cm hotside I did notice that there was wheel damage but I figured I give it another try... it only lasted 100 more miles. It didn't blow a seal or explode or go out in a blaze of glory but it started making all kinds of noises and the shaft feels like a loose tooth. Time to find another one!

 

[pats16valve]

I was kidding. 2400 with out driver. It's a DL model. They are as basic as basic gets. Hell Hyundai parts are an upgrade. It's still a street car, so I don't really plan in gutting it too much if any. But being fw, and auto should help a bit as far as traction goes. I had a 3800 stall in it last year and it pretty much killed it at the track (2.50 60'). I'll be back to a stock converter this year, with a fresh bottom end. When I ran the 13.5 at the shootout, cylinder 1 was dying, and it was pushing through the brakes at the line, and I couldnt really build any boost at the launch. That was on a EVO3 16g.

 

[SBstar]

Well my 14b gave out last night on the way to the drag strip. I've been WOT tuning for the past several days and it was pulling hard but still dropping boost in the higher rpms and only flowing 29-30 lbs/min. When I swapped on the 7cm hotside I did notice that there was wheel damage but I figured I give it another try... it only lasted 100 more miles. It didn't blow a seal or explode or go out in a blaze of glory but it started making all kinds of noises and the shaft feels like a loose tooth. Time to find another one!

Good thing they can still be found pretty cheap eh! Glad to hear the car is up and running, you've going to have to post some pics when you finally make it to the track.

Also congrats to Phil for being the featured member, guess who nominated him first . You've been a great inspiration over the last couple years and I appreciate all the advice you freely share here. Same goes for alot of the people on here of course.

I can attest to these guys who've been there and done it, although I've never come close to any "record" I've been going down this road for a while now. Last year hitting 12.05 I figured I had 11's in the bag, soon after I send a rod through the side of my block getting a little crazy with some washers on the wastegate. This year I'm not even sure the car will see a dragstrip. I've been trying to piece together an idea to make it happen but we'll see how it goes, patience will be a virtue. It's a more difficult road then people think and just copying what you've seen work before isn't necessarily going to net you the same times. Seat time, patience, more seat time, proper tuning, and more seat time is the name of the game even with the perfect combination of parts and weight. Constantly tweaking things, including and maybe most importantly the driver, is the road you're setting on when chasing fast small turbo times. Now just since I typed that somebody is going to go out and run a fast time first time out right