The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[Nate Crisman]

So, I have decided to keep the 14b in the Summit for the start of the season! There are lots of options, but I just can't get away from this little fun turbo .

That also means that if I am going to be serious about this, I have to put together a "good 14b". My current turbo has original, cracked 6cm^2 housing which would need to be upgraded. I do not think that I have seen a crack-free 6cm housing in last 10-12 years! So I am thinking of picking up a newer, 7cm^2 housing. Do we still consider these hybrid turbo's "14b's"?

Has anyone ever seen any quantifiable improvement after putting 7cm^2 housing on a 14b?

Since even the 16G/7cm^2 housings are becoming difficult to find, what about using exhaust housing from one of those Chinese 16G?

Sweet! More 14b activity for 2012. Nice to hear from Leon. 7cm is ok!

I'm basically taking the entire engine and drivetrain setup from my yellow 1g and putting it into a red 92 awd auto streetcar. I want to experiment a bit on a car I can drive and log on the street to learn a bit more and experiment some. I'm figuring it's going to be a solid 500lb heavier but should make exactly the same power since its exactly the same parts on a different stock short block.

11.3@117 + 500lb = ???? Should be interesting at least.

 

[Hubbell91Tsi]

Sometimes I actually think you know what you're talking about...

...but this isn't one of them

Lol Phil what did i say that makes it seem like i dont know what im talking about.

 

[Phil1320]

Lol Phil what did i say that makes it seem like i dont know what im talking about.

"limited to around 29-33 psi on the 14b" ........ "stock sidemount"

sounds like a 14 second car to me......

And on the same note, I have absolutely no idea WTF I'm talking about.....

sweet! More 14b activity for 2012. Nice to hear from leon. 7cm is ok!

I'm basically taking the entire engine and drivetrain setup from my yellow 1g and putting it into a red 92 awd auto streetcar. I want to experiment a bit on a car i can drive and log on the street to learn a bit more and experiment some. I'm figuring it's going to be a solid 500lb heavier but should make exactly the same power since its exactly the same parts on a different stock short block.

11.3@117 + 500lb = ???? Should be interesting at least.

[email protected]

 

[Nate Crisman]

"limited to around 29-33 psi on the 14b" ........



[email protected]

My 14b would make no more than 26psi with the external waste gate at 100% at lower rpm in the track 4000-5000rpm. Falls to 17ish with more rpm. And that's with a short route liquid ic w/ minimal pressure drop.

Phil, I wasn't even going to suggest it would crack into 11's. I was more thinking 12.2@110 range assuming a low 1.6. I need to find a set of 15" 5lug wheels to use my slicks, as my car last year was 4lug. Boo. Huge weight gain from stock wheels & street radials!

 

[Hubbell91Tsi]

"limited to around 29-33 psi on the 14b" ........ "stock sidemount"

sounds like a 14 second car to me......

And on the same note, I have absolutely no idea WTF I'm talking about.....



[email protected]

14 second car flowing 33-34lbs/min!? sounds about right .

 

[Phil1320]

My 14b would make no more than 26psi with the external waste gate at 100% at lower rpm in the track 4000-5000rpm. Falls to 17ish with more rpm. And that's with a short route liquid ic w/ minimal pressure drop.

Phil, I wasn't even going to suggest it would crack into 11's. I was more thinking 12.2@110 range assuming a low 1.6. I need to find a set of 15" 5lug wheels to use my slicks, as my car last year was 4lug. Boo. Huge weight gain from stock wheels & street radials!

That was the first number that popped into my head so I figured I'd toss it up. I'm sure with the weight of the car it will hook pretty good and that a high 1.5X might not be out of the question.

14 second car flowing 33-34lbs/min!? sounds about right .

Exactly. It's a perfect set up.

 

[Nate Crisman]

That was the first number that popped into my head so I figured I'd toss it up. I'm sure with the weight of the car it will hook pretty good and that a high 1.5X might not be out of the question.



Exactly. It's a perfect set up.

I think it would be a nice goal to try and hit an 11 with this car in street trim, although after making myself a list of weight differences between the cars, Im shocked at all the places my yellow car has weight advantage. It's a long list!

 

[DJ23GSX]

Im shocked at all the places my yellow car has weight advantage. It's a long list!

How many of those would deem a car unstreetable though?

 

[Nate Crisman]

How many of those would deem a car unstreetable though?

Just so we are on the same page here, Im comparing the weight differences between a trailer-queen tin can "14b record chaser" dragstrip only car....and what was last week: a 100% oem stock car.

Yellow race car: likely about 2420-2450lb

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Red everyday driver: likely started out at 3100+lb

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Here is the list so far:

Increase: :no-good: ***-indicates things I plan to change eventually

• Stock Fuel tank vs 1gal plastic cell
• Fuel level to run (stock tank needs 2-3 gallons minimum to run)
• Wheels - stock vs volks ***
• Tires - crappy radials vs slicks ***
• Cat back exhaust vs open DP
• power steering system
• Stock suspension springs vs GC coilovers ***
• F&R swaybars *** next time Im working on suspension, I'll likely remove them
• Front Chassis harness
• Headlights
• Windshield wipers
• washer bottle and fluid
• Stock F&R Seats (vs one plastic) *** can always remove pass/rear seats for track in about 10min.
• Interior plastics and carpet
• Sound deadening ***
• Stock electric seatbelts *** looking for canadian manual belts..HATE electrics
• Dash metal, bracking, foam, vinyl cover
• Stock door interior panels vs sheet alum skins
• Blower and heater core
• Interior wiring harness *** might eventually shed the ABS/AC/seatbelt wiring
• Stereo and speakers & antennae ***Ant might go
• Steering column adjustment
• Door crash beams x2 *** might go
• Power locks and windows
• Power mirrors *** might find manual mirrors in JY since clear coat failing
• steel hood ***carbon someday
• Glass hatch window *** might swap lexan from race car if things get serious
• sunroof assembly & headliner
• ground effects / door moldings
• some interior frame bracing cut out

Decrease in weight:

• no Rollbar
• no Nitrous kit

The list is assuming Im going to use the same liquid/air intercooler, water tank, pump, turbo setup, engine mounts, and engine accessories. The red streetcar I am deleting: AC, Cruise, ABS, emissions, F&R metal bumper supports, and have removed as much of the un-needed brackets/braces and misc crap. Once it's running and going to the track, I might get more aggressive with the weight loss.

 

[1SloEvo]

My car looks similar to your track only car and I still plan to drive it on the street from time to time.

 

[Phil1320]

I think it would be a nice goal to try and hit an 11 with this car in street trim, although after making myself a list of weight differences between the cars, Im shocked at all the places my yellow car has weight advantage. It's a long list!

I think so too. To see the other side of the 12.0 marker would be sweet.

Oh man Nate....I used to keep a list and I finally stopped. All I know is that of my last outing, I've got approximately 835 lbs. removed. Just a refresh, the car was 2255 lbs. with a 1/4 tank of gas. And there's more yet. For instance the stock gas tank. However, remember, I don't have a rollbar in the car. I don't think I'll run the talon at the strip anymore once I finally get booted for no rollbar. I've only walked the line at 11.49 once and have some 11.50's-60's. But I think I'm gonna do a full road race cage rather than a 6 point for drags. So, we'll see how quickly I get kicked out once I finally get back to the strip. Depending on how well the car runs, maybe I'll do the 5/6 point initially and add the rest of the cage for road racing later. We'll see.

My car looks similar to your track only car and I still plan to drive it on the street from time to time.

I did this for a while until it just became absolutely no fun to drive down the street. I even took it out on the slicks...with open exhaust....definitely got some attention...

 

[GRNDSM]

Nate, sounds like my Summit should be about the same weight as your "street car". That should make it for some good 14b competition this spring!

 

[Sirnixalot]

No idea on the feasibility (i mean it's doable as i have done the whole turbo conversion myself) of this but would you guys see any gain in going to the Evo X 12.5cm^2 twin scroll turbine housing (with a required manifold of course) or would it just be un-needed lag with the same end result as the 7cm housing?

 

[Steve93Talon]

No idea on the feasibility (i mean it's doable as i have done the whole turbo conversion myself) of this but would you guys see any gain in going to the Evo X 12.5cm^2 twin scroll turbine housing (with a required manifold of course) or would it just be un-needed lag with the same end result as the 7cm housing?

It's been done with a 20G already, no reason it shouldn't work on the 14b. In theory, it should spool at least as well as a 7cm and make at least as much power up top. I can't see the point given what it'd cost though, a 14b in a 7cm is already insta-boost and is able to reach choke flow the moment the turbo hits full boost on an all-out setup, i'd save projects like this for something larger that could benefit from regaining spool.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/323777-1st-twin-scroll-20g-dsm-evo-10-turbo.html

 

[Sirnixalot]

It's been done with a 20G already, no reason it shouldn't work on the 14b. In theory, it should spool at least as well as a 7cm and make at least as much power up top. I can't see the point given what it'd cost though, a 14b in a 7cm is already insta-boost and is able to reach choke flow the moment the turbo hits full boost on an all-out setup, i'd save projects like this for something larger that could benefit from regaining spool.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/323777-1st-twin-scroll-20g-dsm-evo-10-turbo.html

I know it has been done (because i have done it as well and it spools AWESOME on a 2.3)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Sirnixalot/Evo/IMG-20110608-00024.jpg

Guess as you say though cost vs benefit there is not much there.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Nate, sounds like my Summit should be about the same weight as your "street car". That should make it for some good 14b competition this spring!

I can't wait to get it running, hopefully this weekend I'll have something good to report.

 

[1SloEvo]

Nice to see quite a few cars coming along to give it a go this year. My car is getting closer to running as well...hoping it will be fired up by mid February or so.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I can't wait to get it running, hopefully this weekend I'll have something good to report.

Sounds great! Mine should be running this weekend too. I'm actually hoping to get her rolling tomorrow so I can take her to the Autox awards banquet.

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[1990AWD]

^^ damn that engine bay is clean Nate!!

 

[SBstar]

Seriously clean Nate! We're plugging away at the house thing, got a few prospective renters. Hopefully once we get one in there I can start thinking about the car again. I think I'm going to stop by today and see if it starts (sitting in storage).

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

^^ damn that engine bay is clean Nate!!

Seriously clean Nate!

Thanks guys! I've been working on her this morning, I installed the FMIC, intake manifold, fuel rail, radiator, and UICP. All that is left is to rebuild the ps pump, install the hood pins, hood, fenders, bumper with quick release kit, LICP, battery, connect all of the wiring harness, pour in all the fluids, (clutch, brakes, oil, coolant) and bleed the lines. Back to work!

 

[Phil1320]

Sounds great! Mine should be running this weekend too. I'm actually hoping to get her rolling tomorrow so I can take her to the Autox awards banquet.

Looks killer ! And it looks familiar in a way.....

 

[Nate Crisman]

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So so so close to having it running. Inspection first w/ stock Maf, Intake, smic, exhaust. Once I have a 2 year sticker, I'll start tuning/modding it. Island opens march 10th...I'd like to go make passes.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Looks killer ! And it looks familiar in a way.....

Thanks Phil! What do you mean by familiar?

Here is the latest.

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I spent most of the day hunting for a power steering pump. I pulled mine apart to rebuild it with the Mitsubishi rebuild kit only to discover that mine is not OEM and the rebuild kit won't work. I went to the junkyard this morning to grab another one to rebuild but there were none so I ended up having to buy one from the parts store. I also started installing my quick release bumper kit but the one bolt hole I needed on each fender had broken off, rusted bolts in them. I'm currently trying to drill them out. There was some good news though. I installed the AeroCatch hood pins in the fiberglass hood and prepped the hood for paint. I'm hopping to finish up the fenders and paint everything tomorrow.

 

[Phil1320]

So so so close to having it running. Inspection first w/ stock Maf, Intake, smic, exhaust. Once I have a 2 year sticker, I'll start tuning/modding it. Island opens march 10th...I'd like to go make passes.

Sweet man....that came together quick! I'm sure you'll rocket right into the 12's on March 10 - IF YOU KEEP THE NOS OFF THE CAR

Thanks Phil! What do you mean by familiar?

Here is the latest.

I spent most of the day hunting for a power steering pump. I pulled mine apart to rebuild it with the Mitsubishi rebuild kit only to discover that mine is not OEM and the rebuild kit won't work. I went to the junkyard this morning to grab another one to rebuild but there were none so I ended up having to buy one from the parts store. I also started installing my quick release bumper kit but the one bolt hole I needed on each fender had broken off, rusted bolts in them. I'm currently trying to drill them out. There was some good news though. I installed the AeroCatch hood pins in the fiberglass hood and prepped the hood for paint. I'm hopping to finish up the fenders and paint everything tomorrow.

Welcome! Familiar = you'll see! I have Aerocatch as well for my hood when the car goes back together.

Looks great man! I know which holes you're talking about , the bolts are broken off on mine as well.