The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[SBstar]

Been a little MIA lately myself. Lost my renter in the house we own back where we're from. Trying hard to sell the place but the economy is totally tanked in that area. Fortunately found out we were losing the renter before I dropped money into a motor build. Things are pretty tight now paying rent and a mortgage, we're ok financially but there isn't extra money for the dsm. I'm trying to find a budget solution to get the car out for 2012 but I'm not sure yet. I'm thinking about slapping another 1g head on the car with another HG and seeing if it fixes the knock issue which I'm just about 100% sure is from the valve job. Gotta source a cheap, good condition, 1g head though. I've found two that are wrecked already, one had scored cam journals and the other bent valves, either of those would have been free. I might pull the bent valves out of the one and see if any of the guides are cracked but then I'm back to putting more money into a head again. Tough choices, only goal set thus far is to have it ready for the shootout in any condition at least. Gotta love life At least it still runs and drives, just can't rev quickly or it knocks.

 

[1SloEvo]

Hey Shane, I'll send you a PM. I got a core I'll let you get for really cheap!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

My car is still down for the winter, the bay is just about ready for the paint. I wanted to update you guys on my 14b though. I finished the porting and assembly yesterday. Here is the setup, stock 14b compressor, ported 7cm hotside, ported 2g manifold, MAP o2 sensor housing, Tial 38mm MVS wastegate, using all ARP hardware and SCE copper gaskets.

 

[1SloEvo]

Hey Nathan, how much did the ARP hardware cost you for the turbo setup? I wouldn't mind doing that as well! If you have the part numbers for the bolts needed, please shoot them my way if you don't mind! Thanks!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Hey Nathan, how much did the ARP hardware cost you for the turbo setup? I wouldn't mind doing that as well! If you have the part numbers for the bolts needed, please shoot them my way if you don't mind! Thanks!

FFWD Connection - Race Injuns That Will Freeze Your Brain $25 for the stock manifold and $21 for the FP Race manifold bolts. And $15 for an o2 housing with 3 bolts and 1 stud or $17 for all 4 bolts. I have used these for 2 years (with copper anti-seize) and have never had one break or seize on me. These are the 170000psi alloy, not the stainless steel ARP bolts. I would never use the stainless ones on a turbo.

Also if anyone is interested in the SCE gaskets I got them from FFWD too, they are supposed to seal like no other. FFWD Connection - Race Injuns That Will Freeze Your Brain

 

[1SloEvo]

Thanks for the links!

 

[hubz91talontsi]

I have slow progress. Checked out the 6 bolt 2.4 I got. Also came home to a new ems v2. I'll be back home in a few weeks to tear down this motor to have it coated at swain tech.

 

[Phil1320]

My car is still down for the winter, the bay is just about ready for the paint. I wanted to update you guys on my 14b though. I finished the porting and assembly yesterday. Here is the setup, stock 14b compressor, ported 7cm hotside, ported 2g manifold, MAP o2 sensor housing, Tial 38mm MVS wastegate, using all ARP hardware and SCE copper gaskets.

Looks nice...I like the O2 and gate.

FFWD Connection - Race Injuns That Will Freeze Your Brain $25 for the stock manifold and $21 for the FP Race manifold bolts. And $15 for an o2 housing with 3 bolts and 1 stud or $17 for all 4 bolts. I have used these for 2 years (with copper anti-seize) and have never had one break or seize on me. These are the 170000psi alloy, not the stainless steel ARP bolts. I would never use the stainless ones on a turbo.

Also if anyone is interested in the SCE gaskets I got them from FFWD too, they are supposed to seal like no other. FFWD Connection - Race Injuns That Will Freeze Your Brain

This place kicks ass. Real cool guy.

I have slow progress. Checked out the 6 bolt 2.4 I got. Also came home to a new ems v2. I'll be back home in a few weeks to tear down this motor to have it coated at swain tech.

no way!?

Do you have experience with Swaintech? I like their stuff and they have been around the game for a long time......

Did you sell your Grodens yet?

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Yes sir rods are sold. Have some 85.50mm 10.5:1 hd's 22mm wristpin bnib. Pm me if you want them I'll give you a unbeatable deal

I have not used swaintech for any internal parts yet. This will be a first. It sure is hard to build multiple cars at one time. My brothers on deployment right now, so things are always slow when thats the case. I wanted to dyno the car without the pistons coated to get a comparison when they are, but I'm very nervous about this 12:1cr and no wastegate. I'll try to get pictures soon.

 

[Hubbell91Tsi]

Yes sir rods are sold. Have some 85.50mm 10.5:1 hd's 22mm wristpin bnib. Pm me if you want them I'll give you a unbeatable deal

I have not used swaintech for any internal parts yet. This will be a first. It sure is hard to build multiple cars at one time. My brothers on deployment right now, so things are always slow when thats the case. I wanted to dyno the car without the pistons coated to get a comparison when they are, but I'm very nervous about this 12:1cr and no wastegate. I'll try to get pictures soon.

Ill hurry up and pull your old setup out of the car when i come home in feb. Lets get things rolling on this damn thing... Ill donate parts if need-be . 1600s, double pumper and fuel lines and whatever you need. Just pull it off the stealth . If you buy the bearings and everything ill try to get that g4cs back together and in the car as well!

 

[pneumo]

Yes sir rods are sold. Have some 85.50mm 10.5:1 hd's 22mm wristpin bnib. Pm me if you want them I'll give you a unbeatable deal

I have not used swaintech for any internal parts yet. This will be a first. It sure is hard to build multiple cars at one time. My brothers on deployment right now, so things are always slow when thats the case. I wanted to dyno the car without the pistons coated to get a comparison when they are, but I'm very nervous about this 12:1cr and no wastegate. I'll try to get pictures soon.

Yeah, I'd be nervous about that combo. You'll have to drive with a disciplined foot to keep the engine safe. I experienced something similar when I ran a 16G with the wastegate clamped shut. I did a 5th gear pull starting at 3500 rpm, and the boost kept climbing fast! Boost reached 38psi before I reacted and lifted. Luckily I have a good fuel system and a tune that was safe, so the engine was good.

 

[Hubbell91Tsi]

Yeah, I'd be nervous about that combo. You'll have to drive with a disciplined foot to keep the engine safe. I experienced something similar when I ran a 16G with the wastegate clamped shut. I did a 5th gear pull starting at 3500 rpm, and the boost kept climbing fast! Boost reached 38psi before I reacted and lifted. Luckily I have a good fuel system and a tune that was safe, so the engine was good.

We arent afraid to break some parts . The tune or good fuel is not an issue at all . We'll run the 14b at max like we always have. My car was limited to around 29-33psi on the 14b, im going to assume the horrible stock side mount i was running was an issue .

 

[Phil1320]

We arent afraid to break some parts . The tune or good fuel is not an issue at all . We'll run the 14b at max like we always have. My car was limited to around 29-33psi on the 14b, im going to assume the horrible stock side mount i was running was an issue .

Sometimes I actually think you know what you're talking about...

...but this isn't one of them

 

[GRNDSM]

So, I have decided to keep the 14b in the Summit for the start of the season! There are lots of options, but I just can't get away from this little fun turbo .

That also means that if I am going to be serious about this, I have to put together a "good 14b". My current turbo has original, cracked 6cm^2 housing which would need to be upgraded. I do not think that I have seen a crack-free 6cm housing in last 10-12 years! So I am thinking of picking up a newer, 7cm^2 housing. Do we still consider these hybrid turbo's "14b's"?

Has anyone ever seen any quantifiable improvement after putting 7cm^2 housing on a 14b?

Since even the 16G/7cm^2 housings are becoming difficult to find, what about using exhaust housing from one of those Chinese 16G?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Would you not consider a GT35R a 35R if you switched the hotside from .63 to .82?

14B is the compressor wheel designation, so it is still a 14B.

 

[1SloEvo]

Agreed...as long as the wheel size or design hasnt changed, porting and larger hotsides are all good.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I obviously agree too since I just swapped to 7cm housing.

 

[GRNDSM]

That works for me . In the past, I used the original 6cm^2 housing because I was already hearing crap like: "you have too many mods", "your car is too light" or "you are cheating and using a 16G".

So I didn't want to give them any more reasons to complain

 

[1SloEvo]

No such thing as 'too many mods'. Only disqualifying mod for a 14b record would be the turbo...other than the actual car. If you were to break the record in a Summit, I would ! That would be sick!

 

[GRNDSM]

Right, but I am sure someone will say "It is a Summit, not a DSM, so it doesn't count". Never mind that it is heavier.

But since I am not going to cut this van, I doubt that it will ever be a contender for the record. I expect the low of about 2750lbs (van only) weight, when I am done with it. So going faster than 11.7'ish is not very realistic, not with its sub 9:1 motor, anyway.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

You're cheating with that 16g turbine wheel!

If I try a 14b on my setup it will get the 10cm housing. It still won't move more than ~30 lbs/min. I did the 6cm to 7cm swap and noticed some improvement, but that was in 2002 or so and I can't remember the numbers. My 2g wasn't that fast anyway.

 

[DJ23GSX]

The only thing I noticed when I went to a 7cm turbine housing is my boost falls off now in the higher rpm's. It was ported and polished before I got it so I'm not sure if the wastegate hole was opened up too much or the hump before the wastegate hole has to much removed allowing the flapper to blow open.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

It is possible that the flapper is blowing open, especially if it was upgraded.

Another thing to consider though is that in a flow limited situation, increased turbine flow will result in lower boost. This is a good thing, if there was a corresponding increase in power, decrease in ET, etc.

 

[1SloEvo]

Exactly...if you're making the same power on a lower amount of boost, then the efficiency of your setup has become much better since it's allowing more air to flow throught the motor before creating the boost "number" we all reference.

 

[DJ23GSX]

Even with the boost falling off I can't feel a loss in power. It still pulls nice and strong right up to redline so I'm not overly concerned. I've upgraded to a stiffer Garrett actuator with an adjustable rod but it seems no matter how tight/short I adjust the rod boost always seems to fall roughly 4-5psi no matter where I set the boost controller.