2G Spyder 4G64 Hybrid Tuning Help?

[alexr254]

I wanted to sincerely thank everyone who has helped me get to the point i am now with this project.
It would never have been possible without you all!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!

And thank you also for being patient with me. Sometimes things just don't make sense until it clicks and then i feel dumb that i didn't get it sooner.

To my question;
I just went through a major upgrade project with my 99 Spyder GS.

4G64 SOHC/4G63 DOHC swap
16G turbo.
PTE 680CC Injectors
ECMLinked 95 ECU
Innovate LC2 Wideband (sensor in front 02 housing)
S90 74mm Throttle Body
Deleted the EGR.
1G CAS
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
GSC S2 Cams
Installed knock sensor
GFB Mach2 diverter valve

Stock MAF

There is a ton more but that is all in another thread.
The purpose of this thread is to ask if i can send the logged ecmlink stream data, and if anyone can look at it and maybe give me an idea as to what is wrong?
I tried tinkering and seemed to only make things worse. So I rolled my changes back.

The car idles really nicely. Stays very close to the set RPM and does not deviate much at all.
It really does sound great.
The issue is when i give it some gas. It reaches up to about 2000RPM and then hesitates down to 1500RPM. Only way to get it above 2000 is to hit the gas hard, basically launch. But even if i do this it starts hesitating at about 3500.
If i give it gas gradually, it wont go past 2000, and it keeps dropping down to 1500.

Based on the boost gauge, it does not seem like i have a boost leak.
Seems like something is up with fuel delivery because the AFR is way too high when accelerating. But seems fine when idling.
I feel like im sooo close to taking it for a spin, but yet still so far away.

 

[DSMPT]

Could be TPS/idle switch not working properly. How is the TPS and idle switch in a log? Or you should upload a log.

 

[alexr254]

I only saw links to add videos or photos.
Didn’t see an option for files. I’ll look closer.
I definitely have logs to share.

 

[DSMPT]

You go to "Add Photos" and select the log you want to upload and upload.

 

[alexr254]

Thanks.
Tomorrow I will check the TPS and get a new log to share.
The idle voltage should be .63v, is that correct?

 

[CrackedDSM]

It should still rev up even with the tps completely unplugged. It’ll stumble or briefly stutter on first throttle input but it’ll catch quick and rev to wherever you want. I literally just fixed and fought with a bad tps on my 1G so I can say that with confidence.


What was causing my issue that you just described was I had a broken injector wire so it was down on a cylinder.


Fixing both of those issues on mine completely solved my issues which was exactly the same as yours.

Pull an injector plug while the car is running one at a time and see if the idle bogs on every one of them.

Could also be a MAF issue if it idles perfect with no stumble but bogs on revving.

 

[alexr254]

It should still rev up even with the tps completely unplugged. It’ll stumble or briefly stutter on first throttle input but it’ll catch quick and rev to wherever you want. I literally just fixed and fought with a bad tps on my 1G so I can say that with confidence.


What was causing my issue that you just described was I had a broken injector wire so it was down on a cylinder.


Fixing both of those issues on mine completely solved my issues which was exactly the same as yours.

Pull an injector plug while the car is running one at a time and see if the idle bogs on every one of them.

Could also be a MAF issue if it idles perfect with no stumble but bogs on revving.

Thanks I’ll do that as well tomorrow.
Wouldn’t it throw a misfire code?
I’m not getting any codes except for the egr that was deleted.

If it does end up being an issue with the MAF. I’m going to start looking into speed density.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Thanks I’ll do that as well tomorrow.
Wouldn’t it throw a misfire code?
I’m not getting any codes except for the egr that was deleted.

2Gs are different, but on my 1G it never threw a misfire code. Only an injector circuit malfunction.

 

[DSMPT]

Thanks.
Tomorrow I will check the TPS and get a new log to share.
The idle voltage should be .63v, is that correct?

.63v is not from the factory service manual. That's what ECMTuning recommends. .63v will work. Manufacturer spec has a range, so no needs to be an exact voltage number. What @CrackedDSM mentioned above is true but the symptom is not only one, so anyways just in case you should check the TPS, it takes only few seconds to see in a log. You won't waste you time. If it's working properly that would be a good news.
Also from my experience, when I had a similar issue, it was a bad CAS. When the CAS just started going bad, it was acting like that. The engine starts smoothly and idle good. But when I rev, it was obviously bogging and didn't want to rev up. And with a customer car, the CAS was installed 180 degree off, IIRC it was acting something similar like you described.

 

[alexr254]

Unfortunately i haven't had time to check anything yet. But plan on it later today.

Based on the above i plan on doing the following:

Double check TPS voltage
Check all injectors
Install/Setup Speed Density instead of the stock MAF.
I already have a black top CAS coming in. Will replace my greentop and double check orientation.

I will attach logs after i do all of this as to not waste anyone's time.

 

[alexr254]

Just for the heck of it here are the logs.
I did check the TPS and it seems fine to me.

In the log you can see when it hesitates at 2k.
But if i push down a bit harder on the gas there is no hesitation and it tops off at about 4500.
So basically this stutter/hesitation only happens when i gradually press the gas.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Without digging deeper I would also take a look at the throttle body as a potential culprit, s90’s are known for leaking right out of the box and I almost wonder if the throttle plate isn’t dragging on something in the stock intake manifold upon returning to its closed position. I’ve seen a stock intake manifold with the throttle body inlet ported to match a 70mm s90 and it seemed as if it was cutting it close, especially if you didn’t port the inlet on the manifold I could see that being a possibility.

 

[alexr254]

Without digging deeper I would also take a look at the throttle body as a potential culprit, s90’s are known for leaking right out of the box and I almost wonder if the throttle plate isn’t dragging on something in the stock intake manifold upon returning to its closed position. I’ve seen a stock intake manifold with the throttle body inlet ported to match a 70mm s90 and it seemed as if it was cutting it close, especially if you didn’t port the inlet on the manifold I could see that being a possibility.

Its definitely worth looking into.
Just also want to point out that the intake is ported for the throttle body.

 

[alexr254]

Fuel filter made no difference. Although was still good to do.
Started messing with the MAF Comp.
It did help some when i got the AFR down to about 14.6 at idle.

I also ended up screwing in the GFB Diverter Valve to almost fully closed. It was basically 80% open before.

It still bogs when accelerating slowly to 1500-2000 rpm. But less so.
It happens now when i accelerate REALLY slowly.
Before it was happening when accelerating averagely.

I think i'll take it for a spin around the block tomorrow, weather permitting.

Messing with the MAF Comp sliders also did make idle and acceleration feel smoother in total.
I suppose everyone's settings are different but would be nice to have some templates to compare to.
My best bet is probably getting some new logs once i recalibrate the TPS and ISC and share them on the ecmlink forums.

 

[DSMPT]

Before starting to mess with tuning, should go to direct access and change LoadScale number for 2.4L.

 

[alexr254]

Before starting to mess with tuning, should go to direct access and change LoadScale number for 2.4L.

Thanks. I wasn’t sure if I should since it’s a 2.0 head.
But I will.

There was nothing set as base. Everything was a straight line and fuel trims were way off for the injectors I have.
I’m getting weird irregularities for the TPS voltage.
Car off it gets to .63v and pedal floored 5v.
Car running it jumps too .65v at idle.
When running and I try to adjust tps on the fly in link, the TPS voltage gets all out of whack and the throttle won’t read above 0 no matter how far the pedal is pushed down.
I’m going to try another TPS.

Also what should I aim for with the ISC when the TPS is calibrated correctly?

 

[alexr254]

I want to appologize for this long winded post in advance

Are there any tuners out there with experience with these 4g64/4g63 hybrids?
I am willing to pay.
My goal is to have something street ready, not a track car not a daily driver now. But something that can be a daily driver if needed.
Getting up to something like ~300hp would be great. A bit less/more is fine. I have no desired hp set in stone.
I just love this car because it was a gift from my late dad. We discussed beefing it up when he was still around. As stock it was just too weak.
But its not an essential vehicle for travel right now. It may be when i gift it to my son in several years. He is almost 13 now

I just really would like someone who has soma patience and is willing to work with me so i understand whats going on.
Work with me to point out anything i may have missed.

For example just yesterday i realized i should put in some sort of boost control. I've already put in a boost gauge and a diverter valve but no actual controller. So now i have a manual boost controller on order.
Its tough finding resources for this hybrid build. Whenever i search up anything about boost controllers its all 4g63 based which already has a stock boost controller and the harness for it. The 4g64 has nothing of the sort. So if i would want a digital boost controller the only ones i could find are the insanely priced standalone ones. Which is why i went with manual.
The diverter valve (or BOV) is not to be used as a boost controller as far as i understand.

The egr was deleted, no cat, narrowband is simulated. Front O2 sensor location used for wideband LC2.
Calibrated link to work with the PTE 680 injectors. No ECU codes besides the emissions and cat.

I think i may have an issue with the ISC in the TPS, most likely because of the S90 throttle body. I cant seem to get it right yet.
I did follow the procedure with the feeler. I do have an extra TPS just incase the one now is bad. Although it is new.

The ECU im pretty sure is fine since it was just socketed and full serviced by ecmlink.

I am almost positive it needs a tune. Idle does seem fine at no load. It stays within 50rpm of the set 850 idle.
At no load it does hesitate at 1500 when gently accelerating. The throttle is not getting stuck based on feel. There is no hesitation at no load when accelerating harder.

I have not put any load on it yet. And im afraid to do it now since there is no boost controller and i don't want to over do it.

I have a speed density on order. But i don't mind shelving it if using the stock MAF will work ok.
I have a black top CAS on the shelf and can change out the green top CAS in now if needed.

I may have not calibrated the Innovate LC2 wideband correctly after re-reading the instructions. Although looks like the AFR is reading fine on the AFR gauge.
I live at about 20ft elevation, the boost gauge is reading at 15inHg at idle with no load.
The MAF Comp tables are def not in tune.
The only place i can find in ecmlink app to change engine displacement is in the SD comp tables. Which is useless right now since im still using the stock MAF.

 

[alexr254]

TL;DR to my last post.

Can anyone recommend a pro tuner that has experience with ecmlinked v3- 4g64/4g63 hybrids?
Not looking for charity, will pay a pro.

Got the TPS set to .63v (5v full throttle), IAC at 30. AFR 14.6 Idle. Boost at -15 inHg at idle.
Basic fuel trims set for PTE 680cc injectors.
Idling nicely within 50rpm of target 850.
Have done basically nothing with comp mapping.

Experiencing hesitation during light acceleration at 1500rpm.
Installing manual boost controller. Have Speed Density on the shelf, can install if preferred by the tuner.
Street Build. Will be happy at around 300hp.

 

[CrackedDSM]

TL;DR to my last post.

Can anyone recommend a pro tuner that has experience with 4g64/4g63 hybrids?
Not looking for charity, will pay a pro.

Got the TPS set to .63v, IAC at 30.
Idling nicely with 50rpm of target.

Experiencing hesitation during light acceleration.
Installing manual boost controller. Have Speed Density on the shelf, can install if prefered by the tuner.
Street Build. Will be happy at around 300hp.

Remote tuning is the way to go. Go with @dacowgod aka Ricky Nichols/RIX Racing on facebook, or Kenny Kline/justatune. There's a few others but I'm not sure how busy/swamped there are. Tons of options. I tune my cars myself but if I was inclined to have someone else tune for it, it'd probably be Ricky or Kenny. Kevin Jewer is also a great option. Can't go wrong with them.


FWIW I believe Ricky's current setup on his Spyder is a built 2.4. Kenny Kline had a stock bottom end 4G64 he used for awhile in his Evo. Tuning a 2.4 w/ 2.0 head isn't really all that different than a 2.0. Anyone who has records with a 2.0 should be able to tune the 2.4 no sweat.

 

[alexr254]

Remote tuning is the way to go. Go with @dacowgod aka Ricky Nichols/RIX Racing on facebook, or Kenny Kline/justatune. There's a few others but I'm not sure how busy/swamped there are. Tons of options. I tune my cars myself but if I was inclined to have someone else tune for it, it'd probably be Ricky or Kenny. Kevin Jewer is also a great option. Can't go wrong with them.


FWIW I believe Ricky's current setup on his Spyder is a built 2.4. Kenny Kline had a stock bottom end 4G64 he used for awhile in his Evo. Tuning a 2.4 w/ 2.0 head isn't really all that different than a 2.0. Anyone who has records with a 2.0 should be able to tune the 2.4 no sweat.

Thanks. Remote tuning is exactly what i am looking for. But someone recommended, not a rando.
After some research i have figured out tuning is not for the faint of heart. It takes a lot of knowledge and experience. Both things i am lacking in.

But hey - you helped me along the way a ton. So you know how far its gotten since my first 'can i turbo a 4g64' post
And looking at the all in one ebay garbage at first. Oh man the good ol' days...
I truly have learned so much. But not enough to tune it.