Street Build Resurrection of the Red 90 Talon

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I had a request to check head stud depth so I put all of mine in with a drill that has a clutch. All went in the same torque (low) but a few are hanging out so I'll have to chase those. I took it apart so I know it's fine but it had some FUNKY Allen head head bolts in it. Idk what it had seen but it's old bearings look great. I've just about talked myself into a head build also so stick around, who knows...

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Spent today making a thread cleaner and cleaning threads on the head side of the block. I notched an old head bolt with a dremel and ran it in and out with BPC until the crud was all gone and the ARP studs threaded in with my fingers.
Little work here and there and it will be together. New crank soon also.
Stay tuned!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

New Balance Shaft bearings installed today. Little by little.
Installed 90* out of line for Balance Shaft Elimination.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

More progress....
Little by little....
I had one set of oil rings on and it struck me....I haven't gapped the rings yet...DOH...
Got a little ahead of myself.
If I were a married man, I wouldn't be after assembling on the table.
I'm doing as much as I can inside, it's over 100* outside.
Those are Manley I beam Turbo Tuff rods and Manley 85.5mm Turbo Tough Extreme Duty 10:1 pistons with 22mm pins. They feel GREAT!!!

 

[DreamChaser7]

Same ones I want for my build, looks great!
I feel you on the heat, haven’t done much outside the last few weekends it’s unbearable.

 

[1cleangsx]

Damn I wish I could go back in time and have the machine shop bore out my rods to except the 22mm turbo tuff pistons those wrist pins look beefy! I did upgrade to the 625+ rod bolts tho I’m lovin the updates Marty

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Good tip on the 625 upgrade. Just a few bolts....and $'s
Those are .250" wall thickness wrist pins. I had to wait on Manley to get the raw stock to manufacture them so I had a hold on the build but glad I waited Jeremy

Same ones I want for my build, looks great!
I feel you on the heat, haven’t done much outside the last few weekends it’s unbearable.

Be ready for the cost....
Pistons - $800
Rods - $1000
Crank - $800ish
Bearings - $125 or so
And the list goes on and on.....
Head with parts only - $1800 if you have the head plus machining.

 

[1cleangsx]

Gotta pay to play!

 

[DreamChaser7]

Good tip on the 625 upgrade. Just a few bolts....and $'s
Those are .250" wall thickness wrist pins. I had to wait on Manley to get the raw stock to manufacture them so I had a hold on the build but glad I waited Jeremy


Be ready for the cost....
Pistons - $800
Rods - $1000
Crank - $800ish
Bearings - $125 or so
And the list goes on and on.....
Head with parts only - $1800 if you have the head plus machining.

1/3 of the way there…keep buying other stuff though I can’t pass up, .

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I know how it is....I have 500+ parts in inventory. Thank God I have a list and box numbers. It's like a dam warehouse around here.
Metric and SAE
GM and DSM
It's a lot to keep up with and I don't have an inventory on all of the GM parts.

 

[DreamChaser7]

I know how it is....I have 500+ parts in inventory. Thank God I have a list and box numbers. It's like a dam warehouse around here.
Metric and SAE
GM and DSM
It's a lot to keep up with and I don't have an inventory on all of the GM parts.

So if I ever need something I can’t get I’ll just check your inventory and hit you up?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

So if I ever need something I can’t get I’ll just check your inventory and hit you up?

Pretty much
I need to freshen up my list. Some things have been used but some things aren't on it yet either.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Well I dug out the ole manual ring filer so I can get these rings gapped and ready for the NEW CRANK coming in.
Engine builds gets my blood pumping since I ENJOY it.
Don't hack on my old antiquated equipment, it gets the job done and not too fast so you goof them up (but Second Rings are ductile steel so they file MUCH EASIER than Chrome Moly top rings. REMEMBER THAT!!!! Its important).
I am writing in numbers as I have them in the build sheet also so I can reflect on any issues, and there should be ZERO on this. I need to contact the balancing shop to see if they are still doing business.
Marty

 

[We're on Boost]

Marty, what clearance are you aiming for with the main and rod bearings?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

.0015" -.002" mains and rods since i am using a new crank. If it were used I would still be ok with .002-.003" on both, although I like the mains to be .002". Rods can be a bit looser.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

You all will probably see a few of these as I progress.
Filling in the "blanks" electonically with "Paint".

 

[We're on Boost]

.0015" -.002" mains and rods since i am using a new crank. If it were used I would still be ok with .002-.003" on both, although I like the mains to be .002". Rods can be a bit looser.

I always thought that high-power high-rpm engines built from modified road car stuff (like ours) were supposed to have rod and main clearances somewhere between .002 and .003 inches, and then with that you use a thick oil like 20w-50 or so. What do you think about that?
Oh wait, I see the "X" in the part number means with .001" extra clearance. Seems like that would probably give you a little bit over .002" of bearing clearance with a new crank. That would be just right I think.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I've only done this for a couple years......
Clearances NEVER get smaller. It still floats on a film of oil. If its TOO tight, it won't run like a bat out of hell in the beginning but as you wear it in, break it in, it will loosen up and live a long happy life. A tight bottom end will require a breakin for a longer time than a carwash rebuild would.
Our 400 SBC build had tight clearances but now that the motor has over 2000 miles on it, it slings around great because the bearings wore in. I don't have that build sheet on my phone or I'd look at it and post it for reference.
Of course, everyone has their own preferences and those are fine.
The man I learned from was a Marine Mechanic in the late 40s early 50s and a man of a lot of wisdom. He was HELL to work for but a very very good mechanic. As a side note, I have H series bearings in stock also for getting the clearances I like. Lucky me , but on a NEW crank, it is possible to be too tight. I can't wait to "fill in those blanks"!
I might as well add this to the post, I just got off the phone with the balancing shop. It is a 2-3 week wait and $200 for my 4g motor. YAY!!!

 

[We're on Boost]

As a side note, I have H series bearings in stock also for getting the clearances I like.

On your build sheet in post #341 you are already saying the bearings will be the "HX" part numbers.
The H means Race Series.
The X means "with .001 inch extra clearance".
So what I said in the last paragraph of my post #342 is that the .001" of extra clearance probably will get you into the clearance range that I suggested. In other words I'm expecting it to be OK!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Oh yeah, I'm sorry. I understood and I was just saying I ALSO have a set of plain H series STD bearings here for any issues (I have 3 more 6 bolt motors to build). When you build these, you don't set the bearing size, the parts do. I'm not settling for "it'll work" on this expensive build, it's a "it's exactly how I want it" build.
Most of my builds end up at the .002 main, .0025-.003 rod setups if you've seen any of the other build sheets (the 400 was tighter tho).
I'm super stoked the balancing shop is still doing business, as I heard that the owner retired. Turned out that his son is now running the shop and he works for his son.

 

[jed344]

We always shoot for .002 main and little larger on rods. Most rods require .002 minimum, Manley I beams do as I recall. These clearances with 20w50 work very well. We like the Weisco HD pistons and also run 10:1 on e85 cars. Don’t forget to use a stretch gauge on rod bolts. The regular arp rod bolts can still hold quite a lot. When I refreshed mine with pauter X beams with the cheap arp rod bolts they still where within spec after it saw 788whp. I just lived by if I need the 625 rod bolts I should be using a alluminum rod anyway .

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Pretty Parts......
I will be cha(e)cking the journals with a micrometer and writing them down!
It sure looks nice! Gotta thank those involved for their kindness again.

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

Yep, always got to "chack" those journals!
It's ok, I struggle with the small buttons on my phone too

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Spot on Solomon

 

[DreamChaser7]

So a while back Marty I got just the standard bearings based on info you helped me with. New crank, new everything, I guess I should go ahead and get the HX bearings with the +.001" as well for assembly, whether it's me or shop, still not sure at this point. As you say the parts will determine the bearings not vice versus. ??