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Street Build Resurrection of the Red 90 Talon

Year
1990
Model/Trim
Eagle Talon TSi AWD

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,321
3,440
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
I bet most of you have forgotten about the Red 90 Talon in my profile so it is time for some updates and its Re-Build Thread!
Here she is...
Screenshot_20170927-102254_resized Talon in the Park.png


About 3 years ago, the motor had a fit and bent all 16 valves on the way to a car show so she got put on the back burner. Well, now she is being resurrected to join the others in the herd. I don't have a build thread for her so this is a good place to start, I guess.

I had to get her motor out and tear it down to make sure there was no other damage, like to the pistons, crank etc. I noticed that the cylinders had some scratching on them and the engine barely had 1000 miles on it. I attribute it to butting rings on 40+ lbs of boost so this time around the rings all got hand gapped, all valves hand lapped, cylinders rehoned and all reassembled by yours truly.
Red Talon Bottom end before disassembly.jpg
Piston and Rod sets Red Talon.jpg

Honed Block.jpg


The crank looked fantastic, as it should and the cylinders all honed out nice. I found some “artifacts” in the oil pan, namely the 3 oil squirters that had mysteriously broken off. Hmmmm
Extra parts in oil pan.jpg
Extra parts in oil pan3.jpg

Broken Oil Squirters.jpg



I procured a used set of squirters from a great member on here that has been my go to used parts man and sent my head to the machine shop to be re-surfaced. I bought all new SuperTech nitrided valves, a set of Kiggly Beehive springs and retainers and did all of the assembly myself. The valve job itself was done by my local machinist, but I do all of the lapping and final checks.
One seat lapped one not compare picture.jpg
Valve lap.jpg

Head Reassembly.jpg


I ordered up a new set of ACL Race rod bearings and a new set of Manley rings to bring the shortblock up to as new status. When I took the pistons out (to make sure the rings would still float in the lands after crashing all 16 valves), the rod bearings looked GREAT and they should have but you never know. I gapped all of the rings for high boost and deglazed the cylinders which turned out very nice too.
Old Rod bearing.jpg
Piston and Rod sets Red Talon.jpg

Pistons reinstalled.jpg
Short Block partial reassemble2.jpg


I was about ready to close her up after checking clearances and my son noticed my oil pan had a baffle that was loose. I didn’t think I could weld it and have it stay so I just took tin snips and removed the part that was loose, we will see if that has any effect on the motor.
Cut out loose baffle in pan.jpg

Oil Pan Silicone2.jpg
Oil pan silicone.jpg

Oil Pan back on.jpg

So after another once over on all the parts, I grabbed my favorite RTV and got the oil pan ready. It went on smooth as a whistle and currently I am at the point of getting the HLA’s, rockers and the new set of Kiggly 272 cams in the head and it will be motor assembly (fun) time. Stay tuned as I plan to try and have her back up and running this spring. She has a 3rd gear grind that I have to address but then she is ready for stalking the streets again with her QM twin this time around.
A few extra pictures..........
Manley Rod showing wrist pin size.jpg

Kiggly Beehive spings and retainers.jpg
Kiggly Beehive spings.jpg

Cylinder close up.jpg
Bronze Manganeze valve guides.jpg
Cylinder picture.jpg
Assembled 2g Head.jpg

Marty
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,321
3,440
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
It's the "Right Stuff".....I had it on my bench wire wheel and what was left was hard as a rock so I will cross my fingers that it stays that way! :thumb:
She's the car that started all of this for me..........:)
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
6,378
1,634
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
How long have you had it? I've told myself this 97 will be my last dsm but if I ever find a super clean 91 panda...well....maybe.
Problem is with a bucket of money you can never restore a dsm to "new" condition. It simply isn't possible.
I had always hoped DSM would become one of the muscle cars of my generation but sadly the fox body etc remain on top. Maybe another 10 years.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,321
3,440
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
I've had that car the longest, 7 going on 8 years Paul. I kinda "inherited" it when the inducer wheel nut came off of the 14b, I still have that thing LOL. All of a sudden, I owned this little thing and new nothing about them, never heard of them because I was the Muscle Car guy (still am) but had to learn the intricate things. The nuts and bolts where nothing, the tuning, sensors, fueling and "forced" induction were the things I had to get familiar with. Wow it doesn't seem like it was that long ago. My son went on to be the 2g guy and does well with them and has me build his blocks. The youngest son is my sidekick/videographer/assistant tuner and knows Link very well so I have to give him props too.
 

JeffGS-T97

Supporting Member
387
169
Mar 22, 2019
Muncie, Indiana
I've had that car the longest, 7 going on 8 years Paul. I kinda "inherited" it when the inducer wheel nut came off of the 14b, I still have that thing LOL. All of a sudden, I owned this little thing and new nothing about them, never heard of them because I was the Muscle Car guy (still am) but had the learn the intricate things. The nuts and bolts where nothing, the tuning, sensors, fueling and "forced" induction where the things I had to get familiar with. Wow it doesn't seem like it was that long ago. My son went on to be the 2g guy and does well with them and has me build his blocks. The youngest son is my sidekick/videographer/assistant tuner and knows Link very well so I have to give him props too.
your a trooper sir, i get my butt kicked with just 1 dsm, I can't imagine 4. My dad had the Same color
Camaro it was a 68 SS 4 on the floor. Very cool car collection Marty!
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,321
3,440
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
very excited to see this build go down!
That's a funny saying Scotty, it went "down" once so lets get her back on the road and eating V-8s again! :thumb:
Super stoked for you Marty! I’m excited to see you get her back on the road:hellyeah:, what are your goals for the car?
To be the kick ass car she was! She was the "bar" that others around here judged their cars by. It got "called out" several times. Eventually, just like the Blue Auto car, the car boys quit playing (for the most part) and only the biker boys like to test their bikes vs her. She holds her own well and now gets a cam and intake upgrade from before (I put her cams in the blue auto car).
Marty
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,321
3,440
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
I couldn't add any more pictures to the beginning of this, but this is the carnage I was dealing with......
Quite the sight OMG
20180617_115552_resized.jpg
20180621_183443_resized.jpg
20180621_183551_resized.jpg
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,321
3,440
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
No bent pushrods!!! ( I have a few "Z" shaped ones from some of my SBC experiments tho).
The Bronze/Manganese SuperTech guides where not harmed (my machinist said if they were cast, they would be cracked), pistons did not suffer damage or HOLES, and I thank SuperTech necked down valves for bending, not breaking. So VERY thankful. The head did tear up a couple rockers and has a scar inside the head/spring area but its nothing but a blemish.
Overall, I was super lucky. I am now trying to decide what hg to go with, HKS MLS, Cometic MLS or FelPro composite. The head has one more shaving left on it and it is done. When I use the Cometic, I emboss a ring in the head around the cylinder with the metal head gasket so I am torn as to which one I want to use.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,321
3,440
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Head building day! Got my head back from surfacing and it has a RA of between 23-17 so I am happy! Now assembly time so stay tuned! Give me a hour or so.
(we've been waiting over 2 years, whats another hour, right? L o l ) :idontknow:
161021549675718515785836513249.jpg
20210109_120211.jpg
20210109_120152.jpg
20210109_120126.jpg
16102156480172079117401240542174.jpg
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,321
3,440
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
All done!!!
:D
20210109_122319.jpg
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20210109_123818.jpg
20210109_130639.jpg
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20210109_135809.jpg

20210109_141426.jpg
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,321
3,440
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Well, I ran her to 9k in 1st and 8500 in 2nd then decided how hard to rev her after that. Now that old setup is in my auto car and I run it 9200+ and she still wants to rev.
I am sure this will rev 9500 if set up right with no problems. I run more boost on this 1g block/2g head setup for velocity so I am anxious to see myself! :sneaky:
Here is the last log from my 92 auto car before I put GASOLINE in her to pickle the injectors since I run E85. Those are Kelford 264s (and the top of 1st gear).
Screenshot_20201226-170859_Gallery.jpg
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,321
3,440
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Here was her old induction setup....(Evo 3)
16102389514302831689021927523229.jpg


And her proposed NEW induction....:cool:
1610239102706562325075484241550.jpg

20210109_185929.jpg


I've had that manifold for the 2-3 years she has been down and it will hurt bottom end but on the top end and back half of the track....oooo
I can't wait to see how she pulls and revs!
 

We're on Boost

Proven Member
1,208
142
Aug 25, 2007
Seattle area, Washington
My son went on to be the 2g guy and does well with them and has me build his blocks.

Ahh, 2g blocks, have you written up anything in here about what to do with the crankshaft thrust bearings in the 7-bolt engines? I have a friend who is kind of shopping for a JDM Evo 4, and he is trying to figure out how scared to be of the crank walk problem that those apparently have worse than most of the other 7-bolt engines.
Love the way that cylinder head build sheet is written up. In post #14.
 
Last edited:

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,321
3,440
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
When you get a crank out of a auto car the thrust surface has always been GREAT on 7 bolts. The heavy Pressure Plates that get used is the culprit of excessive wear.
I have heard of some mods to increase lubrication to it but I don't have it handy. I'll see if I can find it again. :thumb:
 

We're on Boost

Proven Member
1,208
142
Aug 25, 2007
Seattle area, Washington
Oh, yeah that's been on my mind a little, even with the 6-bolt, because I want my engine to last at least as long as I do. LOL
So for that and other reasons, I have a QM 8-leg twin disc gear drive with the Blue Spring on the way from TMZ. Hoping for a nice light pedal.
And I noticed above you said you are going to use a QM twin too, in this car. So I will be interested in seeing how that goes for you.

Just before ordering the clutch I had a good conversation with John Freund in Facebook Messenger about his QM twin with blue spring. He mostly likes it and says "It's very light on the pressure. Pedal feels nice."
He is a customer of Tim's, road races a 2g.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,321
3,440
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
I am wanting feedback on the QM Twin 7.25 V-Drive.
I noticed that the clutch disks in mine (its used but still lots of material left) have splines that are wore and pretty dam sharp so I will order up new disks before install.
This is what I have.....6 leg IIRC
20210109_204531.jpg

I also have an ACT 2600 & 2900 but I need disengagement at well over 9000 rpms to get this monster to shift like butter while I "attempt" to have 2 ten second DSMs. :pray: :)
 

We're on Boost

Proven Member
1,208
142
Aug 25, 2007
Seattle area, Washington
I noticed that the clutch disks in mine (its used but still lots of material left) have splines that are wore and pretty dam sharp so I will order up new disks before install.

In the pics you sent me last year of this clutch, there was one pic that showed the disk splines worn to the ridiculous, and it made me wonder what the splines looked like on the guy's input shaft who was using it. Probably kinda wrecked them too.
What I've seen claimed about this type where each disk has its own splines at shaft diameter is that it does wear out the input shaft splines faster than a single continuous hub.
So the idea of the "gear drive" is that there is a single hub. Then each disk is splined to the hub OD, rather than to the shaft.
There are a few comments on it in this thread: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/advice-on-twin-disc-that-won’t-damage-input-shaft.529149
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
7,321
3,440
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Well thats WHY I asked. If I need to change up, now is the time and I sure appreciate your input!!
I got busy for a little while.... :)
Who won the football games? Hahaha
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20210110_145743.jpg
20210110_145816.jpg
 
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