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Street Build rabenne's street car

Year:
1995
Model/Trim:
Eagle Talon TSi
Please Support Feal Suspension
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  1. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    We have both... cds is true seamless and dom is functionally seamless. They ERW a flat section together, then draw it over a mandrel. The CDS is just solid bar drawn over a mandrel, I think?!?
     

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
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  2. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    4,818
    1,978
    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, UK, Europe
    Cold drawn and drawn over mandrel i thought was the same just called various names by country, if you got CDS then use CDS as thats what this is specifically. Might aswell make it the same
     

    Road Race Build 11K  10  57

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    175 whp · 180.1 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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    rabenne likes this.
  3. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    I am not a reliable source of anything*
     

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
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    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  4. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    4,818
    1,978
    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, UK, Europe
    Haha
     

    Road Race Build 11K  10  57

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    175 whp · 180.1 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  5. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Well I got about 90 mins of driving in tonight. No coolant lost and no real temp creep. Never saw over 196 the whole time (sitting at lights). Pretty happy about that.

    I also made some light pulls and noticed something a bit strange with my boost control/wgs. When I have my cutout muffler closed (forcing it to go through the fully baffled muffler) it controls boost at 25 psi which is what the springs are rated at. Thats with all 0s in ecmlink... Working as it should. When I open the cutout (3" straight pipe opens inside muffler) it over-boosts uncontrolled. Just skyrockets until I get ouf of it. I saw 39 psi tonight LOL ooops! Glad I had my Defi ZD setup to buzz at me when it goes over 35 psi... I easily could have overlooked it, although it did seem to be pulling pretty decent.

    I understand some change... but that seems like night and day difference. Am I crazy to think this is odd?

    I am going to make a few tweaks to the SD map and likely go back out for more data later.


    Edit: Well, I took it back out and verified the problem was real, and not my imagination. When I run it with the muffler, I can can go WOT and it wont make more than 25 psi. It does so pretty late too... With the muffler cut-out, it shoots up into the mid 30s and I get out of it. I am shocked there would be that much difference. I would say running it closed is waaaay too restrictive. but thats okay, because I only do it when the police are behind me :idontknow:
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
    Loading...
  6. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Today I decided to eliminate some possible causes of the over-boost issue. So I removed all the hoses and started over with a single hose and a tee, going off to both bottom ports. Both top ports are left open to atmosphere.

    I got some logs tonight where it looks like I was able to stay in it long enough to see boost leveling off at 30psi. Two different pulls show I was staying WOT and boost stopped climbing. So thats a good thing, at least it seems to be controllable. I probably will have to remove or swap out springs on both gates to get a minimum pressure closer to the 25 psi I was hoping for. At 30 psi I was seeing a little bit of knock on 93 with a stock timing curve and conservative rich (10.5:1) AFR.
     

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
    Loading...
    ErikTande and ec17pse like this.
  7. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Today from a 2000 rpm roll in 3rd gear on a flat road, I went WOT, saw 30psi in the intake manifold by 4448 rpm. Estimated flow was 38.4 lb/min with 90deg F intake temp.

    Went to look at an old log of the car from last fall with the BB 50 trim and turbonetics manifold. Found a below boost threshold pull and found that it made 30 psi at 4125 rpm in 3rd with 37.8 lb/m estimated flow with 59deg F intake temp.

    I'd say the spool characteristics arent too bad on this big ol' hx40... Yes! I know this comparison SUCKS, but I am sharing the data that is available for comparison. It is worth mentioning that the boost control was having issues on the 50 trim when that log was taken, it was overshooting my demanded number. The HX40 is levelling off as it reaches 30psi, so it might have gotten there a bit quicker if it was facing the same overshoot issues... just things to think about I guess...

    50 TRIM

    50 TRIM.JPG

    HX40

    HX40.JPG
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
    Loading...
  8. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    20200804_190527.jpg


    Finally got communication with the pi 4 4gb. Yay! Time for pi car pc v2! New revision from scratch in the works.
     

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
    Loading...
  9. Jays99Spyder

    Jays99Spyder Proven Member

    104
    31
    Joined Feb 22, 2020
    Waukegan, Illinois
    Can't wait to see what this looks like. :hellyeah:
     

    Street Build 243  4

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS Spyder 4G63 Swap
    fwd · manual · 4G63t Swapped
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  10. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Came across a C6 Z06 today, and after setting off the ricer valve a few times, I got him to make a few pulls. I was behind him on a 2 lane country road. The best was the first pull. we got out of it around 85mph (pretty early) according to the log. I was catching him in 3rd after he gained a bit on me during the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. This car was pulling noticeably harder than the vette. I am still at 30 psi. How the hell does this make sense? LOL

    On a negative side, I am getting a bit of coolant loss. I had a buddy driving with me today and said he never saw any signs of HG trouble, but I am out of places it could be going.... With a MLS and standard arps, others have had these issues too. So I ordered a composite HG and I am going to grab a set of L19 headstuds. I am debating between sticking with the 1g head or going to the 2g head with RVR intake manifold.


    EDIT: I originally said c7 but this was a c6 z06. Ooops
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
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    ErikTande likes this.
  11. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    I hot torqued the head studs tonight, and went back out. Picked up 40 hp and 50 ft lbs link estimated. Also got home and hadn't lost ANY coolant... hmmm....

    I am, still going to do the HG and studs...
     

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
    Loading...
    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  12. Jays99Spyder

    Jays99Spyder Proven Member

    104
    31
    Joined Feb 22, 2020
    Waukegan, Illinois
    Is the mls not a good enough gasket for your set up. I thought is was one of the best that's why I used it with a little copper spray too.
     

    Street Build 243  4

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS Spyder 4G63 Swap
    fwd · manual · 4G63t Swapped
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  13. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    They can be the best if the block and head are resurfaced. I had this block surfaced back in 2007 when I put it together, but they told me up-front that they couldn't hit the spec I was asking for with their equipment. At the time I said, "close enough, f-it". Never had an issue until 30+psi on a mid-size turbo. I dont think the composite will be "better" for me other than I like its chances of sealing if my block and head arent PERFECT.

    It is really promising that a hot-torque seemed to have corrected the problem, but I have been sold the idea of using a composite gasket as the weak point. I would rather pop gaskets than destroy the pistons. Lots of fast dsms have used composite gaskets. I probably dont really even need the L19 studs, because people have made a lot more power than this setup can make, on standard arp2000s... but they arent too crazy expensive
     

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
    Loading...
    ErikTande likes this.
  14. Jays99Spyder

    Jays99Spyder Proven Member

    104
    31
    Joined Feb 22, 2020
    Waukegan, Illinois
    Only my head was resurfaced and I used the standard arp headstuds but I don't plan on using anything bigger then a 16g or 20g since my power goal is only 400 to 450. Don't know if I'll see a problem with thia but only one way to find out.
     

    Street Build 243  4

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS Spyder 4G63 Swap
    fwd · manual · 4G63t Swapped
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    rabenne likes this.
  15. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    I am struggling to get a good baseline injector setting for these 1650cc hiz FICs. I was using FIC 1000cc hiz and my global was set to about -50 last summer. Now with the 1650cc it looks like -59 is the number.... I used the calculator and it suggested -70, but it was super lean. I set it to -65 and tried to get more fuel by adding VE... well by 110% VE it still wasn't getting things to line up... so I used the LinkTools global optimizer tool and now its suggesting -59% to bring the max VE cell back down to 100%.

    I'm not sure what I am missing, but based on my initial attempts to set these up, they aren't actually flowing much more than the 1000cc. That CAN'T be right.

    I would suspect fuel pressure/fuel delivery issues, but the AEM 2246 pressure sensor shows nothing to be concerned about. Its raising with boost 1:1 and holding nicely.

    I did a comprehensive boost leak test in which I tested between the turbo and throttle body as a sealed system to 40 psi. This also verified proper BOV operation, because it required a hand pump to apply pressure to the diaphragm to hold the BOV closed. Without boost going into the manifold, the normal hose cant do its job.
    I then tested thru the turbo and into the engine at 35 psi. I fixed one very very minor leak, but that was not enough to be the issue....


    I have the voltage offsets entered from the datasheet in the DA table. I am not sure what else I might be missing, but hey, is it something obvious I forgot???
     

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
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    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  16. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

    3,828
    1,420
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I’ve notice hiz injectors to be a pita too and very finicky. Guessing since they’re that much bigger that small increment equates to that much more/less fuel percentage wise
     

    466  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    512  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 3K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.2 @ 120 · 1G DSM
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  17. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    6,702
    2,932
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Idk about the 1600 or 1800s but 2150s are CNG injectors so maybe thats why they are touchy. My 2150s are about the same setting, alot different than what the calculator said. Love the updates :thumb:
     

    Street Build 5K  29

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.74 @ 117.04 · 1G DSM

    1K  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    838  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 1K  7

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 6K  14  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
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    rabenne likes this.
  18. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    It feels strange that they would want to play nice at a value so close to where the 1000cc injectors liked to be. I did a bit of tweaking to the DA table to get it to stop trying to put sooooo much fuel in. Shooting for 9.5:1 AFR was yielding some really high IDCs when I had e70 in the tank.

    After changing the DA table, the global and SD table seem to be settling around -62-63%. This gets me a good match between AFRatioEst and WB and max VE values right around 100%. (This is on E25 right now because I refilled with 93) I'm not worried about the number anymore, but scaling them down so much smaller than they are, plus getting some 104% IDCs on E70 led me to think something wasn't right... but in reality, it was super high IDC because the DA was still stock and I was moving a good bit of air.

    I received my HG today, and the studs yesterday. Wow for the shipping time on the L19s, way to frickin' go STM! Free because order was over $200 and they still used fedex 2 day... I expected free shipping meant free super-slow-economy shipping. Very pleased with them after this most recent order. Even though I have everything else on hand, I still feel reluctant to pull it apart until I have done everything I can think of to eliminate other possible issues.

    Today I did some math... With the Fluidampr OD at 6.375" and the stock water pump pulley at roughly 5.625" we get a pump drive ratio of 1.18ish. This makes the max pump rpm expected to be 8850 in stock form with stock rev limit. Because I wasnt aware there were other options, I am currently running the smaller of the two water pump pulleys on my setup. The OD on that one is 3.625"ish. That brings the drive ratio to 1.76ish. Thats much higher than the typical rule of thumb for hot rodders I keep finding online (1.0-1.3). It brings the RPM of the water pump to about 12K when engine rpm hits 7000. That's getting close to 1.5X the max speed it would see on a stock car.

    So my next question, at what RPM do the high spinners start having pump cavitation issues? With the stock drive ratio, the pump would not hit 12K RPM until 10.1K engine RPM...

    Thoughts?

    edit: looks like the Evospec pulley is due to be here tomorrow. I know the engine mount bracket needs trimming, and my new timing cover parts finally came in, so I should probably just knock it all out while I am doing the HG.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
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  19. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Changed the springs in the wastegate to shoot for closer to the 25 I wanted. 33psi is a touch too high for a minimum boost pressure LOL. Those springs were supposed to be good for 25psi. I went to the 20psi spring combo, and ended up right around 26psi. Pretty happy with how strong the car feels even at the lower boost. I think getting some decent full pulls helps a lot.

    Heres a clip of a run where WB and AFRatioEst are starting to align decently at 11:1.
    upload_2020-8-14_14-27-43.png

    Power numbers dont seem too crazy, although its probably a bit inflated. I am using a weight estimate, although I did correct the gear ratio for the evo 2 gears. This is with stock timing curve 16° peak.

    It didn't really love the quick stab of the throttle, so it looks like I may need to address the DA table for base tip-in. I unfortunately wasn't logging TPSDelta at the time so ill play with that today.
     

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
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    ErikTande and TK's9d2TSi like this.
  20. NWHTanK

    NWHTanK Proven Member

    1,229
    138
    Joined Apr 23, 2011
    Odessa, Missouri
    I'm going for a modified underdrive pully for a 91 amp galant alt, a underdrive sprocket for the oil pump. Then I found a new design head gasket that uses a fire ring of sorts to seal the combustion chamber.
     

    2K  7

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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    rabenne likes this.
  21. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Just out of curiosity, @NWHTanK, if you are going to underdrive the oil pump with a larger sprocket, does that work with the stock belt and tensioner setup? How much bigger can you go before the front case and belt share space? I feel like its kinda tight in there already... I haven't heard of anybody doing that, so could you point me to any links/references??

    And what head gasket are you talking about? I think most composite gaskets use a fire ring around the cylinders, but I am always curious about new stuff....
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
    Loading...
  22. NWHTanK

    NWHTanK Proven Member

    1,229
    138
    Joined Apr 23, 2011
    Odessa, Missouri
    Google these for some parents time reading.;) Screenshot_20200815-012138_Samsung Internet.jpg Screenshot_20200814-190205_Samsung Internet.jpg
     

    2K  7

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  23. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    dude very cool, thanks for the pics!

    Got the Evospec pulley today. Its pretty sweet looking. and should give me a ratio of about 1.06.

    20200815_124128.jpg


    edit: pulled off the small pulley and this thing is going to take some serious shaving of the engine mount to fit. I am shocked its so far off from fitting, but I know the diameter is the whole point.

    I dont want to put shavings into my timing belt area, so I am going to pull it all apart, get the mount off, and do the grinding on a spare block with a spare pump... what a pain in the ass! I know this probably isnt the actual problem either, so ill be taking some of this back apart when I admit to myself the headgasket is leaking LOL
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
    Loading...
    ErikTande and NWHTanK like this.
  24. ErikTande

    ErikTande Supporting Member

    1,366
    359
    Joined Dec 17, 2012
    Centennial, Colorado
    Amazing thread, thanks for sharing all the hard work!
     

    Street Build 1K  1

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    4K  7

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.2 @ 105 · 1G DSM
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    rabenne likes this.
  25. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    1,691
    657
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Thank you! I really just started doing this as a record for myself, but the involvement from the community has been helpful!!

    I got the pulley on... it was a BEAR of a job. After getting it timed and back together, I cranked it up and found I didn't quite shave enough of the mount. It was rubbing and making a hellacious noise. I finished up the trimming with a file to avoid taking it all back apart. The edge of the pulley got a bit chewed, but next time its off I will throw it on the lathe and clean the edge back up.
    Got it all to clear, and cranked it up... still making noise.. WTF... Well the included titanium bolts were too long and bottoming out on the pump itself. Just a tiny bit of drag, that I should have caught from the start. I ground them down a tiny bit... OHHH pretty sparks! I love titanium LOL

    Its on!

    I used a 4k belt 43.9" long. Perfect fit! 439K4

    20200815_235005.jpg 20200815_235002.jpg

    Also put the GVR4 lower timing cover and 2g mid cover on with new backing tins to match the mid cover. Nice fit, and no cracks!! I knew id have an opportunity to put it on eventually
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020

    729  10

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 9K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    380  7

    2008 Lancer Evolution MR
    awd · automatic · Lancer Evolution
    Loading...
    ErikTande likes this.

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