Next Test: E85 flex fuel vehicle via fuel trimming

[JayRolla]

My brother is thinking of adding a 75-100shot of nitrous to his e85 16g car, and add a 5th injector with his emanage becuase he may get a little close to running out of fuel with his setup.

 

[turboglenn]

My brother is thinking of adding a 75-100shot of nitrous to his e85 16g car, and add a 5th injector with his emanage becuase he may get a little close to running out of fuel with his setup.

Does he have the cable to control the emanage? If so i would like to see how it can control extra injectors (not doubting it will, never seen what one can do )

I was under the impression only dealers of gredy products could get teh programming cable, but i just found them for sale under a google search, so now i'm a ta confused.. Did greddy change that policy?

 

[krummel21]

With E85 and 1600's I heard that the larger injectors don't cause to many problems compared to 93 octane. Much truth to this?

 

[turboglenn]

With E85 and 1600's I heard that the larger injectors don't cause to many problems compared to 93 octane. Much truth to this?

+1.. I've heard a lot about 1600 being hit or miss as far as their flow remainin stable at all times. Not sure how much truth there is to this (the largest injectors i've tuned is apair of 1000's) But i would like to know the same as you.. are they better for alcohol since the pulsewidths are much larger , or are they still hit and miss?

 

[matthewdesigns]

Here's a link to a thread I just started about seasonal/regional E85 blends, according to the USDA. Good to know for making sure that tune is safe in the "low" season.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun...85-mix-varies-state-season.html#post151471370

 

[Ajax]

Glen my injectors that you tuned on my car are 1660cc

 

[turboglenn]

Glen my injectors that you tuned on my car are 1660cc

Wow, those were really friendly too!! How's the car been running? I need to make you a new timing map. I didn't want to push the envelope on your car since it was my first E85 tune, but after hitting up some crazy timing numbers on my car succesfully(and without knock), i know we could bring yours up a good 4-5* through out the power band and see some nice gains!

 

[JayRolla]

Im not sure about the greddy, im sure he can get it to work. He said all he needs is the harness and I never knew they didnt sell it. Jack here in the springs is the one that said we should through in a 5th injector at the throttle body when he installs the 75shot.

He is very excited and says the e85 should love it.

 

[T_K]

No E85 in NJ I want it badly!!!

 

[turboglenn]

Something weird started happening today.. the car started getting leaner and leaner for a drive to my friends house, and on the way home it went EVEN LEANER from a starting point of 10.7:1 a few days ago under WOT 25psi to 13:1 - 13.4:1 WOT at the same boost and with the same amount of methanol injection used as extra fuel(now running an M10 for extra fuel to keep my injectors out of the 90+% range of IDC). I filled up with a fresh tank of E85 today (2nd tank) and this leaning out started happening after a few short drives. I'm not sure what it was, but i got back into it a few minutes ago and everything was fine again (very strange)

My thought is maybe the Fuel filter.... My car has over 100k (by just a hare) and the best thing i can come up with was that the filter was already getting clogged ..>>How probable is that?????? I know a lot opf people warned about getting a clogged fuel filter, but i didn't think it would happen this son. The filter has less than 3k miles on it from a recent tune up, but hell, this is my first E85 experience so i don't know everything about it.

What are some of you E85 guys thoughts on this (bastard dsm...feel free to tell me if i'm off on something, your expereiences are the real driving force that led me to even try E85 on the injectors i have and i'm glad i did... just wonderingif you've seen filters clog this fast that were new to start with?? )

Can the E85 have an effect on the pump? Ihave an old WAlly 255 that i've been runnning for 7 years, but it still keep up on regular fuel... could the E85 caused an early death?? I wont' know without flow testing it (not willing to try, i'd rather just replace it)

Any help is apreciated



EDIT: I also want to note that E85 went up 12 cents a gallon in the last week here... Has anyone else seen an increase in prices???

 

[JeffGST]

You have to remember that the Meth injection has an effect on the wideband reading. The meth will cause the wideband to read much leaner than actual.

Also add to the fact that you pumped in fresh E85 into a tank that previously may have had a blend of unleaded and E85. Did you siphon out all the unleaded before you pumped in E85 for the first time?

Now you say that, it all went back to normal AFR's all of a sudden? Do you happen to have a datalog of this? I want to see if IDC's changed inbetween the lean log and the normal AFR log. This will show if it is an airflow calculation problem or a fuel system problem.

If IDC's changed in the two logs and one was lean and the other was rich, then it's an airflow calculation problem.
If IDC's stayed the same and one log was lean and the other rich, then fuel delivery is an issue.

 

[JayRolla]

Usually people swap the stock fuel filter at around 500 miles because the e85 is cleaning everything out of that tank. Also I know that wallys have that cover on them, I would remove this just in case its not ethonal safe.

 

[Ajax]

I agree with Jayrolla they say that E-85 cleans all the crap out of your tank so maybe you got something stuck in your filter or it could be too that you had enough regular gas left in your first tank, but then again why would it be back to normal again? Glenn could it be your AFPR messing around again?

PS. Havent really run my car much I am geting my new big blue wastegate spring today so once that installed then I will mess with it again. Figured out megatune yet so that I can email you my msq and you can mess with my timing?

 

[turboglenn]

Usually people swap the stock fuel filter at around 500 miles because the e85 is cleaning everything out of that tank. Also I know that wallys have that cover on them, I would remove this just in case its not ethonal safe.

Good point about the sock on the pump, i'll check it this weekend hopefully. I'm at 190 miles of methanol use.

I agree with Jayrolla they say that E-85 cleans all the crap out of your tank so maybe you got something stuck in your filter or it could be too that you had enough regular gas left in your first tank, but then again why would it be back to normal again? Glenn could it be your AFPR messing around again?

One of my first thoughts was the AFPR, but it usually doen't change that much under WOT. The more i think about it, I'm starting to lean towards the theory of some left over pump gas in the E85.... I might try and pump 2 gallons of 92 into it just to see if it comes back. When i first filled the tank with E85 i think i had about 2 gallons left in my tank...

The only thing i don't get is why an hour later i did a WOT pull and it was back down in the low 12's in AFR WTF

PS. Havent really run my car much I am geting my new big blue wastegate spring today so once that installed then I will mess with it again. Figured out megatune yet so that I can email you my msq and you can mess with my timing?

I've got the mega-tune pretty much down at this point, but i will have to go in and play with the folders to see if i can get it to show up for me... I NEVER get the option of "car1" when i am on that first initial load up screen.. It just gives me all versions of the firmware to choose from. I'm going to search for the first MSQ you sent me and see if i can make it work today... It's raining, so i'm not working

 

[JeffGST]

Did you review the datalogs like I mentioned in post# 111 above? That will tell you the whole story. No guessing there.

 

[turboglenn]

JeffGST, I did not get any logs, the lapotop was dead and i didn't have a power cord. I was simplyt running errands and going to a friends house when it happened. TOday it's raining so i can't get a WOT pull in ANY gear because i can't keep enouhg traction to fully load the motor down.

Today it's starting to act just as weird. I thinking I might throw a few gallons of 92 in there and see if it fixes it. I did not get all the old out last time, i simply ran it to an 1/8 of a tank and then filled up with the E85. 12.4 gallons went in and i've enver went any lower than to be able to put in 13 and don't know the size of the tank, but i'm sure i was not running pure e85 in the last tank.

 

[Ajax]

Wonder if some injector cleaner would work? Have you tried running without waterinjection?

 

[JayRolla]

Whats happening, is the afr changing all the time or has it just leaned out and stayed? If so just add some more fuel if you can and get the afr back. Its just probably from the old gas.

 

[turboglenn]

Wonder if some injector cleaner would work? Have you tried running without waterinjection?

I am going to change the filter the next dry sunny day, and i'm going to send the injectors out for sonic cleaning next week... I'll drive my street bike or bronco while they're being cleaned, so no big deal on not having a car for a few days. I'm thinking 100k miles of pump gas has left a Ton of crap in the tank that is now possibly in the filter or injectors (the mitsu filter is a great design though, so i think the injectors are probably okay.

Whats happening, is the afr changing all the time or has it just leaned out and stayed? If so just add some more fuel if you can and get the afr back. Its just probably from the old gas.

It has gone lean and stayed there. It went as leasn as 13's on AFR under WOT, but then came back to a 12.4 later that day at the same boost levelsTHe pulse widths are setup for having water injection past 20psi to save the injectors some work. I may go re-tune it after the filter swap and injector cleaning and hope for the best.

According to my haltech though, the alternator is not putting out anythingover 13.1v now.. When i tuned the car real good the last time i was seeing 14+volts, so that may havesomething to do with the fuel loss too *shrugs* There's so many variables this might take a while to get resolved. I still plan on just adding some pump gas to the blend and seeing if my tune goes back to the 10.7 AFR's i was getting last week

One question i have is ..... What is the capacity in gallons of a 97 GS-T tank???? Once i know this, i'll know how much pump gas was in the mix last week and this will help me to try and replicate the last tune before going crazy thinking there's something else wrong.


EDIT: from watching the fuel trimming that i can do manually, I am seeing about a 6.5% change in fuel. If i add that much via trim knob the tune is pretty much fine under idle and cruise (but closed loop is still adding some fuel there i imagine, i need to ge the haltech hooked up and see what's going on ) Another thing i've noticed is that this tank of gas is even less suseptible to knock, i would guess from having less petrolium fuel in the mix...

I absolutely cannot wait to go hit the dyno once i get a solid day to fine tune my setup!!!

 

[matthewdesigns]

1000AAQ says that all 2g's have a 17gal tank. I think my 2g AWD manual says 16gal.

 

[Ceddy]

From 97-99 Service Manual

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17 gal.

I remember AWDs being 16 gal., like matthewdesigns said.

 

[JrCRXHF]

Usually people swap the stock fuel filter at around 500 miles because the e85 is cleaning everything out of that tank. Also I know that wallys have that cover on them, I would remove this just in case its not ethonal safe.

This would be my call on the e85 lean issue.

I changed my filter on my honda 3 times over 3000 miles on e85.

But my honda had 380,000 miles on it too.

 

[turboglenn]

This would be my call on the e85 lean issue.

I changed my filter on my honda 3 times over 3000 miles on e85.

But my honda had 380,000 miles on it too.

Was you car acting similar to what i've described?

Unfortunately, i've messed up my knee working and stunting motorcycles this last week. (had an ACL and MCL replaced and blew the meniscus in 5 palces back in 05, jumping a dirtbike for a freestyle MX video and it still acts up sometimes) So untill the surgeon clears me I can't do too much wrenching that involves standing up Hell i can't even barely drive the car because it hurts like hell to push that ACT 2600... I go in at 10:30 this morning to get some pain meds and have it looked at, but then i go in for the MRI on tuesday at 2:15

I'll get back to updating this once i can stand and drive again without pain.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Was you car acting similar to what i've described?

Unfortunately, i've messed up my knee working and stunting motorcycles this last week. (had an ACL and MCL replaced and blew the meniscus in 5 palces back in 05, jumping a dirtbike for a freestyle MX video and it still acts up sometimes) So untill the surgeon clears me I can't do too much wrenching that involves standing up Hell i can't even barely drive the car because it hurts like hell to push that ACT 2600... I go in at 10:30 this morning to get some pain meds and have it looked at, but then i go in for the MRI on tuesday at 2:15

I'll get back to updating this once i can stand and drive again without pain.

Sorry to hear that.
I can relate sort of, about 2 years ago I had a 4g63 come down on my knee in the junkyard when the cherry picker broke ; and it crushed my meniscus. What a terrible pain.

Hope you get better soon.

 

[turboglenn]

Sorry to hear that.
I can relate sort of, about 2 years ago I had a 4g63 come down on my knee in the junkyard when the cherry picker broke ; and it crushed my meniscus. What a terrible pain.

Hope you get better soon.

Thanks, knee injuries are a bi***, having crushed your meniscus you know almost exactly what i'm going through (they say that hurts worse than just tearing the ACL because of the force required to bust it)

It's been almost 2 1/2 years since my surgery and there's always something making it hurt from walking up stairs, the weather getting cold or raining, and then just over working it. I tore some scar tissue in it last year and it put me out for a month because of that alone and there's nothing they can do but give me meds since they don't repair scar tissue because there's nothing can be done to it since it's not even technically supposed to be there.


Thanks for the good wishes!!!!!