New holset hx40 burning/leaking oil? *pics*

[turbo98eclipse]

Ive been dealing with some oil leaks with my oil return line on my holset hx40, but finally got them all resolved. Im running a -12an return setup. Steel braided, no kinks in the line. Im running the oil feed off of the OFH (with a restrictor), I have a bse kit on the car and also did the OFH port mod. The only thing I did since getting the turbo was reclock the housing.

The problem is that not only is there oil being burned in high, puddle creating amounts (it leaks through a small crack I have in my old downpipe Ive been using to mock everything up for the build), but it comes out as a milky white color. Theres no oil in my coolant, and no coolant in my oil when I drain it. Its only this color at the end of my oil return line and in my o2 housing. Below is a pic of the oil in my o2 housing. Any idea what this is from?

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[GRAVEDIGGER]

I hate to say it, but it appears that the seals are blown in the turbo. Is there any shaft play at all? When oil goes through the center section of any turbo it usually comes out and down the return line milky/foamy like what you're seeing in your o2 housing. It looks like it's just leaking past the seals and into the exhaust side. Is there any oil puddled up in the compressor side?

 

[JusMX141]

Nearly impossible for a turbo to leak that much oil unless there's some type of drainage restriction.

I've seen blown turbos that had so much shaft play that the turbine seal was gone and the seal groove completely worn away which did not push that much oil.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

No oil from the compressor side, no shaft play, and Im not sure what else to do with my return line. At idle the oil pressure is about 80-85 psi (with the oil loss and smoke, i can only run the car for a minute or so), but im assuming the restrictor should take care of that extra pressure? Would moving my source to the head help any?

 

[Calan]

At idle the oil pressure is about 80-85 psi

That is WAY high, unless that is a typo. If that is what you are really seeing at idle, then that explains most of your issues I think.

The question is, why have you got such high oil pressure at idle if you've done everything you say?

 

[JusMX141]

Holy weiners, Oscar Mayer. If your idle pressure is 80-85, that means your pressure at wide-open throttle will be around 700psi. May want to consider moving the oil source to the back of the car somewhere in an attempt to get the pressure down a little.

 

[burkgonzo]

Holy weiners, Oscar Mayer. If your idle pressure is 80-85, that means your pressure at wide-open throttle will be around 700psi. May want to consider moving the oil source to the back of the car somewhere in an attempt to get the pressure down a little.

Lol this made me chuckle.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

haha-- well its that high at COLD idle. Im assuming thats normal because on my 350z its around the same at cold start. I havent been able to run the car long enough to get the oil warm so Im not sure if it will drop.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

Holy weiners, Oscar Mayer. If your idle pressure is 80-85, that means your pressure at wide-open throttle will be around 700psi. May want to consider moving the oil source to the back of the car somewhere in an attempt to get the pressure down a little.

^ This is true, but at this point you need to get the pressure in check for you motors sake. That much pressure is not going to lube the motor very well. If this (80-85 at normal operating temps) is what you see, you need to see what the cause of the high oil pressure should be.

I am assuming that you do not get the car warm and that this is a cold start. With that said, you are only a little high as my cold start is at about 70 or so. Please clear up the pressure reading and where you are getting it and with what gauge.

Robert

Edit: You got me

 

[turbo98eclipse]

^ This is true, but at this point you need to get the pressure in check for you motors sake. That much pressure is not going to lube the motor very well. If this (80-85 at normal operating temps) is what you see, you need to see what the cause of the high oil pressure should be.

I am assuming that you do not get the car warm and that this is a cold start. With that said, you are only a little high as my cold start is at about 70 or so. Please clear up the pressure reading and where you are getting it and with what gauge.

Robert

Edit: You got me

Ha, yupp. Everything's answered above. I'm not sure what else to do. I was assuming the pressure may have been too high and the oil was backing up into the turbo, blowing the seals... But with the restrictor in place, I'm not sure where to go from here.

 

[brian9397gsx]

Port the oil filter housing. You say you've removed balance shafts there's your high pressure. I know I'd top out a 150 gauge at cold start up till on my current build I ported the relief port no more crazy pressures.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

Another thing is to cut coils of the spring inside the OFH, but this is a last resort to get pressure in line.

I am still interested in where you are getting your reading? Before or after the restrictor? Pictures of your drain and feed would be nice too. Hope you get this resolved because it will be a blast to drive.

Robert

 

[Calan]

Port the oil filter housing.

^ This is the solution to high oil pressure after Balance shaft deletion for some people but remember not to remove too much of the casting.

Guys, check the OP's first post:

...and also did the OFH port mod.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

Oil port mod was done. I started a thread on here with pics of my progress to ensure it was done properly. My oil pressure reading was taken from the ofh, before the restrictor. There may be a smallll kink in my return line so I'm going to add in a 45* brass/copper elbow to see if it fixes anything. Ill report back with the results

 

[vash_1010]

... have you taken it apart, may sound stupid, but do you have your oil flinger in your seal plate? Missing the oil deflector?

 

[turbo98eclipse]

... have you taken it apart, may sound stupid, but do you have your oil flinger in your seal plate? Missing the oil deflector?

I havent taken it apart other than into 3 pieces: comp housing--center section-- bep housing. I purchased it from one of the most reputable members on here when it comes to holsets, so Im assuming its all correct.

Having said that, I was still a bit iffy on the return line, so I decided to do it all over. The way the manifold holds the turbo and the spot of my bung, using a straight and a 45* an fitting makes it almost impossible. The hose would almost need to be shaped like an S, so I just ordered another straight an fitting and a 90* an fitting. I was trying to avoid using a 90, but it seems, whether the hose of the fitting, somewhere there would have to be a 90* turn in the line. Id rather it be a solid, non-kinkable piece than in the hose. Should get them some time mid next week and have it on the same day. Ill report back with some good news

 

[turbo98eclipse]

Well I finally got around to redoing my oil return-- I used a 90* on the pan and a 30* from the turbo. The two end actually overlapped eachother because they were too close, so I ended up cutting the tip of the 90 off and just putting the hose with a clamp on the end. The 30* was a pushlock. They literally are 1mm away from eachother so I only needed about 1" of hose between the two to cover the gap they left (obviously used more hose than that) But I said that to say: its impossible for there to be any kinks in my line!

No leaks around the bung (in the pics you can see the napkin I put around it) and no leaks from either end of the hose. Same result-- smoke out the exhaust and oil leaking from my cracked downpipe.

Is this looking like a turbo issue?

EDIT: in the first pic, that note basically said the 30* was highlighted in yellow and the 90 in green. The pic was full scale when I put that in

 

[loco4G63]

Hey guys I am runing a -3an oil feed line off my ofh and a -12an drain line. I am running an hx40 and my OFH is ported. On cold start up like 55* I see 75 psi and anything around 30* and below very near 100psi and this is all on cold start up. After she warms up I see right at 25 psi at idle and around 75-85ish/ 90 ish at full throttle is this ok especially since when she is warm and at idle I only see 25psi? I just wanted to see what you guys think or if I need to open up my OFH up a little more. Oh yeah I also did the BSE.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

Hey guys I am runing a -3an oil feed line off my ofh and a -12an drain line. I am running an hx40 and my OFH is ported. On cold start up like 55* I see 75 psi and anything around 30* and below very near 100psi and this is all on cold start up. After she warms up I see right at 25 psi at idle and around 75-85ish/ 90 ish at full throttle is this ok especially since when she is warm and at idle I only see 25psi? I just wanted to see what you guys think or if I need to open up my OFH up a little more. Oh yeah I also did the BSE.

What weight oil are you running? I believe 25 at warm idle is ok. Can anyone else confirm this?

 

[loco4G63]

Castrol 10w30 for break in.

 

[turboglenn]

read through my post about installing my custom hybrid hoslet, i had the same high oil npressure and have pics of my porting and clipped spring (i had to clip it or i would still have huge OP numbers)

I'm now seeing 25 at idle when hot and no more than about 65psi under the highest RPM when WOT, but before those mods i was much like you seeing above 65psi on cold start and being able to peg a gauge past 100psi when hot on high RPM's, this would have forced oil out the holset in quick order, and a restrictor wasn't taking care of any of it, i had to do the extreme porting and clipped 1.5 cfoils off the spring starting at the very end/edge of it where it's flattened out and countinghp in from there)


I agree with justin though that i've never seen that much oil from a turbo except when the turbine wheel broke off the shaft of a small t3 we put on a CRX once (car ran 11.45 that night on a stock 1.8ls with 550's and AFC, 255 and slicks and did it after breaking 1st gear and launching in 2nd ) Anyway back on topic, get that oil pressure in check and then worry about the turbo, pushing that kinda pressure isn't good for anything in the engine.. I mean mine was high but yours is crazy insane high!!! again, check my thread a few posts below this one for a pictorial from start to finish with everything documented, it might help you out a bit.

also, are you pulling the feed from the clean or dirty side of the OFH?? (look at my pics again for the correct side..the side where the gauges are tapped from the factory is the "dirty" side)

best of luck

GLenn

 

[loco4G63]

Ok so open her up more than. I thought it was ok but if I should go more than I will. It's a PITA ### I am lazy now that the engine is running : )

I have about 140 miles on the engine now so next oil change at 200 I will do it.

 

[turboglenn]

Hey guys I am runing a -3an oil feed line off my ofh and a -12an drain line. I am running an hx40 and my OFH is ported. On cold start up like 55* I see 75 psi and anything around 30* and below very near 100psi and this is all on cold start up. After she warms up I see right at 25 psi at idle and around 75-85ish/ 90 ish at full throttle is this ok especially since when she is warm and at idle I only see 25psi? I just wanted to see what you guys think or if I need to open up my OFH up a little more. Oh yeah I also did the BSE.

I'd say your readings are solid and trustable for daily use. plus it's still breaking in as a whole (the rings have seated by now though)I would say by the time your engine has a thousand miles on it you'll be seeing numbers a little lower. You only really need to see about 10psi at idle for the engine to be happy (an d that's near the 12psi minimum on the holset.) And 75-90 at WOT to redline falls in the range of 10psi per 1000 RPM for an engine's health, you might be fine with just a restrictor. Once i got my oil pressure in check via the spring and porting I was able to see a differemce in the pressure iot makde to the turbo. But when my pressure was high like the OP's i couldn't get a restrictor to make a bit of difference. But like i said once pressure in general to an acceptable side of things i noticed about ~15-17psi drop with a restrictor mneasuring about .090" (.086" to be exact), I had 12psi at the turbo warm with it and when i took it out i jumped to about 25-30psi at idle depending on the overall temp of the engine and ambient temps (i have a huge oil cooler that i think may be a change in oil temp and that possibly effecting pressure difference i'm seeing in the engine between a ~25* F day and a ~50* F day)

MY wot pressures at the turbo changed from ~45-50psi hot with the restrictor and jumped to about 68psi tops now without it and i'm running a 90* 3/8NPT to -4AN at the OFH and at the other end of the -4 line the tuirbo is just using a 1/8npt 90* adapter with a -4 an fitting threaded into that. the pressure gauge is just an inline fitting at the OFH in the -4 line that lets me tap a pressure gauge in so i'm reading pressure to the turbo and not so much the engine ( the readings can change from each other when running a restrictor to the turbo before the gauge)

And according to what i've learned and what others have stated spiking to 85psi for a second at WOT probably won't effect the turbo as long as teh drain is large enough. But being too low like less than 340psi under high boost and RPM will wipe the turbo out fast as nthe thrust bearing wont have enough oil film/pressure to keep the wheel from being metal on metal.

Now for the OP of this thread, he surely needs some work done in the OFH and most likely the spring modding. oil pressures that high are not only bad for the turbo but engines although depending on oil pressure as it's actual "bearings" can even have issues at that high of pressure... exactly what and the reason i don't know.. but that npressure is definitely WAY too high for the nturbo and will be blowing oil out the "piston rings" (turbo oil seal rings), it's probably more on the exhaust side because that seal takes more wear from heat than thecold side does. but either way you hould get it in check ASAP

here's a link to how mine was ported and the spring was cut

This one shows how much the 1.5 coils changed it... I started right from the tip of the coil even though that area is flattened out a nd didn't add much "height" or pressure but i felt it important to accurately know how much i took off as well as having some preload on the spring from the bolt that holds the spring in, and i could still feel the bolt comopress the spring a little while ha nd threading it by only cutting this much off

in this pic the "chrome ring" i talk about leaving 1/2 covered is facing downward and to the left (about 7:30 position) but this is what i call the "top of the piston" iun the oil pressure mods i'm describing

that got mine in check.. at the tip of thye piston on the OFH where it's "chrome" (basically the very top sealing egde above the balck ring on the piston) but you want to widen the hole and lower it to about halfway exposing that "chrome ring" edge (but since it's the sealing surface for this device you gotta leave at least 1/3rd of it sealing belopw some material at all places where you port for it to operate correctly) I leave at least 1/2 on mine just to be safe..i'm sure it'll show in my pics and you'll understand the piston and it's ring i talk about

 

[turbo98eclipse]

I actually just purchased a FFOFH today -- Im assuming I should port that one as well?

And right now that turbo that was on the car is floating around the U.S. someplace -- I sent it out to have it rebuilt and now its... well its a long story. Im sure I'll post about that later sometime
So Im looking into another one for the time being. Are the steps to porting a FFOFH the same as porting a stock one? Mine is from FFWDconnection if it makes a difference

read through my post about installing my custom hybrid hoslet, i had the same high oil npressure and have pics of my porting and clipped spring (i had to clip it or i would still have huge OP numbers)

I'm now seeing 25 at idle when hot and no more than about 65psi under the highest RPM when WOT, but before those mods i was much like you seeing above 65psi on cold start and being able to peg a gauge past 100psi when hot on high RPM's, this would have forced oil out the holset in quick order, and a restrictor wasn't taking care of any of it, i had to do the extreme porting and clipped 1.5 cfoils off the spring starting at the very end/edge of it where it's flattened out and countinghp in from there)


I agree with justin though that i've never seen that much oil from a turbo except when the turbine wheel broke off the shaft of a small t3 we put on a CRX once (car ran 11.45 that night on a stock 1.8ls with 550's and AFC, 255 and slicks and did it after breaking 1st gear and launching in 2nd ) Anyway back on topic, get that oil pressure in check and then worry about the turbo, pushing that kinda pressure isn't good for anything in the engine.. I mean mine was high but yours is crazy insane high!!! again, check my thread a few posts below this one for a pictorial from start to finish with everything documented, it might help you out a bit.

also, are you pulling the feed from the clean or dirty side of the OFH?? (look at my pics again for the correct side..the side where the gauges are tapped from the factory is the "dirty" side)

best of luck

GLenn

 

[turboglenn]

to be hoenst with you i wiould assume that porting them is the same, but i've never had one to really know. I think the only real difference is the way it points the filter so you have more room for a DP and such in that area.

I woulld just compare them visually and port accordingly (probably spring mod too with pressures as high as you stated.) After all the pump and the lack of balance shafts is what's raising pressure too high and the stock regulation systm can't keep up with the added flow from blocking those off, especially since the on shaft is right off the oil pump it's se;lf