My 2g 6 Bolt Build

[pitbull419]

Yes I read the entire thread.
And for being a full 6bolt swap/build I would say it went pretty smooth.

 

[olmytsi]

I need some help tuning my car. Once I get the datalogger working, what exactly am I trying to do?

So I log RPM's 02 and Timing?
Or RPM, 02, Timing, STFT and LTFT?

What I got so far from research is Im going to try and tune for a .92 02 reading?
Correct me if Im wrong.

Im not worried about tuning for WOT yet, I just want the car to not run so rich for the remainder of the break in period. So on my MAFT, I want to tune the Base, Idle, and Mid throttle.

So when I start Im suppose to start with the Base. Cruise 35-45mph and log my rpms, 02, and which fuel trim? LTFT or STFT? Then try and get my 02 around .92? And at the same time try to get LTFT (i think? or STFT?) to be as close to zero as possible? Then tune for idle and mid throttle after tuning for base?

Im just looking for some help as to what Im trying to do while tuning. What should I be logging and what should I be aiming for on the datalogger? What should my 02, fuel trims, and timing look like at idle, cruise, mid throttle? Any help would be appreciated.

I have the mechanics down on the motor, now I just need to learn HOW TO TUNE

Do not tune off your 02 sensor. I can show you back to back pulls without any changes where my 02 sensor read different at wot but my wideband was the same. You can use it as an indication of whats going on (reads way low or way high...then you need to see whats going on) but not to tune off of.

The easiest thing to do since you just want to tune the low throttle/cruise, do it off your fuel trims. Look at your fuel trims and adjust the base settings of the maft (not wot) to get the fuel trims as close to 0 as possible. STFT is real time what the ecu is doing as you are logging and LTFT is overall what your ecu is doing for fuel as you drive evryday. Let's say you reset your battery, LTFT will take a few days to be usable (ecu takes time to learn and record what your stft is doing and then updates ltft). That's basically it.

When i used the maft, i only adjusted base, i used the afc to adjust the rest so check out the maft guide as to how to adjust for cruise etc. www.fullthrottletech.com has the guide for the maft.

Do a little searching, PLENTY of threads with extensive discussions and even tuning guides on both here and talk. Search for afc tuning guide or just tuning guide, i remember there was a page that detailed everything from setting the fuel trims to tuning for wot.

Timing at idle/cruise is all over the place so no need to minitor it, as long as your base timing is set, you are fine. Timing is relevant at wot for tuning purposes. At wot, your timing will go down as you spool and should increase steadily once you are in boost. Make sure to read and understand how using a piggyback means you are lying to the ecu and how that affects timing.

 

[Spoolin98]

peypey's ride, thanks for the compliment. I havent had a chance to tune it yet, the alternator was bad so Im waiting for a new one to come in.

pitbull419, i expected things to go wrong during the swap, it just seemed like everything that went wrong with mine didnt happen to anyone else. Some of the stuff was just ridiculous, plus I didnt post every problem I had. It was a long and frustrating journey

olmytsi, so when I tune with my translator, should I be trying to get STFT or LTFT to be as close to zero as possible? Im assuming I should be logging STFT and correcting from there. If Im over 0 does that mean Im running too rich or too lean? I did search for tuning, but nothing seems to explain to me what I need to know. Thanks for the help!

 

[peypey's ride]

Short Term Fuel Trim Bank X:

Range: -100 to +99%
Bank: 1 or 2
Fuel Trims are correction factors applied to the base fuel map. When in closed loop mode, the O2 Sensor is used to adjust the trims based on the sensor's values. A positive trim indicates the ECU is adding fuel (a lean condition), and a negative trim indicates the ECU is taking away fuel (a rich condition) from the base fuel map. Fuel trims are not used in open loop mode.
Short Term fuel trims differ from Long Term trims in that Short Term trims are not stored between starts and they change more frequently. If there is a trend in a short term trim, eventually the long term trim will adjust to move the short term trim back to zero. This allows the ECU to adjust it's fuel map to compensate for variances in sensors or dirty injectors, etc.

The Bank indicates a group of cylinders. Inline motors typically have 1 bank. V motors have two banks. Typically there is an O2 sensor for each Bank and that is the sensor the trims use to adjust themselves. Bank 1 always contains cylinder number 1.

Trim vaules are useful for part throttle tuning of S-AFC (or similar) fuel computers.

Long Term Fuel Trim Bank X:

Range: -100 to +99%
Bank: 1 or 2
Fuel Trims are correction factors applied to the base fuel map. When in closed loop mode, the O2 Sensor is used to adjust the trims based on the sensor's values. A positive trim indicates the ECU is adding fuel (a lean condition), and a negative trim indicates the ECU is taking away fuel (a rich condition) from the base fuel map. Fuel trims are not used in open loop mode.
LongTerm fuel trims differ from Short Term trims in that Long Term trims are stored between starts and they change more slowly. If there is a trend in a short term trim, eventually the long term trim will adjust to move the short term trim back to zero. This allows the ECU to adjust it's fuel map to compensate for variances in sensors or dirty injectors, etc.

The Bank indicates a group of cylinders. Inline motors typically have 1 bank. V motors have two banks. Typically there is an O2 sensor for each Bank and that is the sensor the trims use to adjust themselves. Bank 1 always contains cylinder number 1.

Trim vaules are useful for part throttle tuning of S-AFC (or similar) fuel computers.

This may help

 

[olmytsi]

olmytsi, so when I tune with my translator, should I be trying to get STFT or LTFT to be as close to zero as possible? Im assuming I should be logging STFT and correcting from there. If Im over 0 does that mean Im running too rich or too lean? I did search for tuning, but nothing seems to explain to me what I need to know. Thanks for the help!

If the fuel trims are - (under 0), it means the ecu is taking fuel out and you are running richer than needed.

If the fuel trims are + (over 0), it means the ecu is adding fuel and you are running lean.


To dial the base in, i would use LTFT. And then if you sit at idle, watch your STFT and then you can adjust your idle based on that. And then you can cruise on the highway at steady speed and watch your STFT and adjust your cruise.

Remember, the fuel trims do get reset everytime your battery is disconnected so i recommend taking a 20-30 minute cruise if you haven't driven your car much since having the battery hooked before adjusting.

 

[Spoolin98]

If the fuel trims are - (under 0), it means the ecu is taking fuel out and you are running richer than needed.

If the fuel trims are + (over 0), it means the ecu is adding fuel and you are running lean.


To dial the base in, i would use LTFT. And then if you sit at idle, watch your STFT and then you can adjust your idle based on that. And then you can cruise on the highway at steady speed and watch your STFT and adjust your cruise.

Remember, the fuel trims do get reset everytime your battery is disconnected so i recommend taking a 20-30 minute cruise if you haven't driven your car much since having the battery hooked before adjusting.

You lost me a little there...
If the ECU was taking fuel out wouldnt you be running lean?
And if the ECU is adding fuel then you would be running rich?

Thanks for your help guys

 

[alex99gst]

You lost me a little there...
If the ECU was taking fuel out wouldnt you be running lean?
And if the ECU is adding fuel then you would be running rich?

Thanks for your help guys

He means that the ECU knows it is running rich and so it tries to remove fuel.

 

[olmytsi]

Yeah, the ecu is constantly trying to get the right mixture. Your goal is to adjust the fuel setttings so that the ecu has to make less corrections as possible. You will never get your fuel trims to stay at 0 all the time, just get them to stay as close to 0 as possible (+/-2 or 3 is acceptable).

 

[pmanaresi]

Hey i am almost ready to drop in my 6 bolt stroker in my 95 talon awd and am a bit confused about the coolant lines matching up for the swap. Since you use the 1g water pipe it doesnt have the outlet near the water pump like the 7bolt water pipe does. This feeds the water jacket/oil cooler. I know you are using an external oil coiler so maybe you dont even have this hooked up, but i need to figure out where to feed the oil cooler from since the water pipe is different. By the way nice job on the build

 

[Spoolin98]

Hey i am almost ready to drop in my 6 bolt stroker in my 95 talon awd and am a bit confused about the coolant lines matching up for the swap. Since you use the 1g water pipe it doesnt have the outlet near the water pump like the 7bolt water pipe does. This feeds the water jacket/oil cooler. I know you are using an external oil coiler so maybe you dont even have this hooked up, but i need to figure out where to feed the oil cooler from since the water pipe is different. By the way nice job on the build

Thanks. There are 2 different 1g water pipes. 1 has the outlet to feed the water jacket on the oil housing and the other doesnt for external oil cooler setups.

 

[Spoolin98]

Thanks for the help guys, once I start tuning it Im sure Ill have more questions. Ill keep you guys posted...

 

[pmanaresi]

shit thats what i was afraid of. the water jacket 1g pipes are discontinued now (according to jnz). I might try and cut off the nipple from my 2gpipe and have it welded onto the 1g pipe i have... any easier ideas?

 

[Spoolin98]

I havent posted here in awhile, I figured I would update everyone.

The motor has 70 miles on it now. The rear main seal is still leaking, its going back to JNZtuning to be fixed as soon as I get the car inspected.

I just ordered DSMlink, AEM 3.5 Bar Map Sensor, FIC 1050cc injectors, and a walbro 255 fuel pump. Its coming together slowly but surely.

 

[iziegsx]

I havent posted here in awhile, I figured I would update everyone.

The motor has 70 miles on it now. The rear main seal is still leaking, its going back to JNZtuning to be fixed as soon as I get the car inspected.

I just ordered DSMlink, AEM 3.5 Bar Map Sensor, FIC 1050cc injectors, and a walbro 255 fuel pump. Its coming together slowly but surely.

Good luck man! Hope it all works out

 

[Spoolin98]

Well the motor has about 115 miles on it now, and the car is finally inspected.
I have my 95 eprom ecu installed and the clutch wire in for DSMlink. All I have to do is install my 1090cc injectors, AEM3.5bar map sensor, and swap my plug wires and I should be back in business. Ill FINALLY be able to see whats really going on in my motor.

The last time I drove it, it started to stutter really badly at about 3000rpms and wouldnt move. The CEL was on, I got my datalogger working and checked it out. I was throwing three codes. EGR, Random Misfire, and Fuel Pressure Solenoid. Im hoping it was the FPS that was making my car stutter like that. From the reading I did, that sounds like my culprit. Im going to bypass the FPS and run the vac line right from the manifold to the FPR and see what happens.

 

[turboglenn]

Man, that car is CLEAN! Everything is SOOo clean, The AFPR, the hoses to the catch can, spark plug wire cover, all of the little things make it look really nice! I wish my 2g looked that good under the hood. Looks liek it's time for me to build a new UICP. and get some ish chromed

how's it running right now? and what all's done to it ( sorry i didn't check your mods list as i figured this was a different build)

 

[Spoolin98]

Man, that car is CLEAN! Everything is SOOo clean, The AFPR, the hoses to the catch can, spark plug wire cover, all of the little things make it look really nice! I wish my 2g looked that good under the hood. Looks liek it's time for me to build a new UICP. and get some ish chromed

how's it running right now? and what all's done to it ( sorry i didn't check your mods list as i figured this was a different build)

Thanks for the compliment
If you go through the entire thread you can see everything that has been done to it. Mods are in my profile, same build. Im gonna take some more pictures tonight, ill post them later.

 

[Spoolin98]

DSMlink is installed along with the injectors and the MAP sensor. I didnt start the car yet because it was too late last night, but I did get online with DSMlink so I know thats working. I wish I would have baught DSMlink a long time ago, its great.
Didnt get a chance to take pictures, but I will soon.

 

[snowborder714]

It's great to hear more news of the project moving forward!

Can't wait for some more pics!!

 

[Spoolin98]

It's great to hear more news of the project moving forward!

Can't wait for some more pics!!

Next step is to get a decent tune on it, then get it to JNZtuning to have the rear main seal fixed and get an alignment. After that I have to fix my front bumper, because its not mounted how I want it. Then Im going to wash, claybar, and wax the car for the first time in 3 years

Once all that is done, I promise you, I will take tons of photos and post them.

 

[gixrman]

Next step is to get a decent tune on it, then get it to JNZtuning to have the rear main seal fixed and get an alignment. After that I have to fix my front bumper, because its not mounted how I want it. Then Im going to wash, claybar, and wax the car for the first time in 3 years

Once all that is done, I promise you, I will take tons of photos and post them.

I know how you feel, I drove my car for the first time in 3yrs to work last week (100 miles round trip) and between praying that it would make it there and back I was so excited that it was running.

 

[Spoolin98]

I went and started the car yesterday, It fired right up. That was a shocker, first thing I have ever done to that car without a problem.

I was running a little rich at idle, I fixed that. I started to revtune it, but I just cant seem to understand what the hell Im doing. I posted a log on dsmlink forums, so if anyone here with link or experience with it wants to teach me how to tune. Feel free to hop on the link forums and help me out, my name is the same on the link forums.

I cant drive the car right now because its snowing around here, so I wont be able to tune it on the street till it gets nicer out.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

DSMLinkers will be helpful, just give them time to respond. The first thing to understand is tuning your LTFT Lo and Mid. Lo being your idle fuel trims and Mid being your cruise. Basically just drive on the highway for 15 minutes, then get home and sit at idle for 5 minutes. See where you are percentage wise and adjust from there. My advice to you is to study (read it slowly at least 3 times) and absorb the information there. It may not be prevailant at first, but the more you understand the more the FAQ is informational.

 

[Spoolin98]

DSMLinkers will be helpful, just give them time to respond. The first thing to understand is tuning your LTFT Lo and Mid. Lo being your idle fuel trims and Mid being your cruise. Basically just drive on the highway for 15 minutes, then get home and sit at idle for 5 minutes. See where you are percentage wise and adjust from there. My advice to you is to study (read it slowly at least 3 times) and absorb the information there. It may not be prevailant at first, but the more you understand the more the FAQ is informational.

Ok, thanks for the advice...

 

[Spoolin98]

I was wondering if anyone knew the reason for this. My NB A/F gauge reads a constant rich? It never did this before I did all these upgrades, it used to bounce around, now it just stays all the way to the right in the green all the time no matter what.

I thought it was from upgrading my fuel system, but after installing DSMlink and adjusting my STFT and LTFT lo to around 0%, the gauge still reads rich. Any ideas?