Car keeps stripping cambelts, please help

[brynd63]

Hi all, I will add as much (hopefully relevant info) as I can because this is starting to break me as a person and I am now clueless...

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I recently pulled my engine out of my 1995 Mitsubishi Rvr turbo (N23WG) as it needed a head gasket replacement.
I had the head sent away and machined/cleaned up and put back together through a re-builder shop.
I replaced the head gasket, which went smooth.

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I decided to also do the cam-belt/water pump while the engine was out. The first time I done this I realized I had used the wrong hydraulic tensioner as shown below, I have the early 95 2G tensioner but I accidentally ordered and used the late 2G tensioner.
After dropping the motor in, on the first start the teeth stripped on the new cambelt at the crankshaft. I pulled the engine back out and decided okay, makes sense as I used the wrong tensioner...I checked for damage etc and there was no obvious damage caused so I went to my local store and got the correct early 2g tensioner and a new belt.


Following all procedures etc and spun it by hand 6 times which all lined up nicely, and it spun correctly without trouble.

I put the engine back in the car, and attempt to start it, fingers crossed...andddd..well, it strips another cambelt without moving the camshafts more than quarter turn.

what am I missing/doing wrong? any suggestions? this is killing me (mentally and financially) so all helpful suggestions/checks welcome. The fact it spun fine by hand and all timing marks lined up then when I attempt to start it, it strips teeth is doing my head in.

I am aware the below picture has the balance shaft not lined up, this is from the teeth stripping. It did line up when first installing the cambelt.

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[habitatguy187]

With everything as it is right now, can you still slide the grenade pin into the tensioner or has the plunger extended from it's original spot? It looks like the tensioner pulley could be rotated clockwise a little bit more (which would tighten the belt)

 

[Mech Addict]

Did you have the head resurfaced? How did you prep/install the valve lash adjusters?
Either that belt is way loose, or something driven from the belt does not want to be in the game. At least that’s the two scenarios I can think of.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Should the timing belt tensioner pulley be tensioned the other way?

Think the way you have it now is for a 6 bolt

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[Mech Addict]

Seems right, or I’m not understanding your point.
Photo from vfaq below.

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[AWD-Tony]

Seems right, or I’m not understanding your point.
Photo from vfaq below.

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OP’s pic is correct for 6 bolt. 7 bolt is the other way.

 

[luv2rallye]

On 1g's the tensioner pulley rotates clockwise and the 2 holes end up above the center bolt.
On 2g's the tensioner pulley rotates counter clockwise and the 2 holes end up below the center bolt.
For 6 bolt swapped 2g see: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/timing-belt-tensioner-pulley-hole-location.30477/#post-151292535.

Different tensioners pics: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/w...6bolt-7bolt-tensioners.363878/#post-152137257

 

[DSMPT]

I had used the wrong hydraulic tensioner as shown below, I have the early 95 2G tensioner but I accidentally ordered and used the late 2G tensioner.

The tensioner has nothing to do with the issue. You should be able to use it without any issue. The part number is different but they work the same. The only difference is the design. The early 95 tensioner has the old 80s design with a reservoir, like the 6 bolt or 1g 7 bolt tensioner. The late 95 tensioner is without it. I just hope valves are not bent..

 

[brynd63]

Hi thanks everyone for your replies. The head was resurfaced and had new lifters installed with new valve guides.

Although I did the tension the 1g way not 2g way, (clockwise not counter clockwise) the pin spun freely in the tensioner when set as shown in OP, is that possible? I'm thinking if I buy a third belt and set it to the 2g tension things may go smoother??

 

[streetraceboi]

Do the cams spin freely? As in without any binding and smooth?

 

[AWD-Tony]

That’s what I would do. Leave timing covers, accessory belts and crank pulley off. Just run it like and make sure nothing is binding when you have the tbelt off.

While you have the tbelt off, rotate the crank so all pistons are away from tdc, then rotate each cam clockwise to make sure nothing is binding.

 

[Tyeler18]

Is the tensioner pulley catching the waterpump housing and binding? Every time i spin the 7 bolt pulley the wrong way the pulley binds on the waterpump and tries to lock up.

You had the cams out, are the caps installed in the correct orientation and in the correct spot? If it only turned a quarter turn I'm guessing a cam is locking up if it's not the tensioner pulley. I find it hard to believe the pulley will skip it.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I have to agree that the tensioner should have its holes on the bottom not the top and, if I recall, when I did a 7 bolt and turned the pulley the wrong way, it had an interference problem around the water pump area also. I would check that and see the difference if you put the pulley the 2g way instead of the 1g method.
Crossing fingers.....

 

[Dericsh]

Is the tensioner pulley catching the waterpump housing and binding? Every time i spin the 7 bolt pulley the wrong way the pulley binds on the waterpump and tries to lock up.

You had the cams out, are the caps installed in the correct orientation and in the correct spot? If it only turned a quarter turn I'm guessing a cam is locking up if it's not the tensioner pulley. I find it hard to believe the pulley will skip it.

I thought about the cams but when I reread the post it said he turned it over by hand and double checked the timing marks. It only messed up after it was started.

 

[DSMPT]

I have actually put the tensioner pulley in the 6 bolt way on a 7 bolt by mistake and had run for many miles, but the belt didn't get damaged at all and nothing actually happened. Maybe the belt damage is related to something else. Could be too much belt tension or something is physically contacting?

 

[pauleyman]

Something has to be binding. I'm curious if valves are now bent also.
I would remove the cams again and inspect each valve for full closure. This will also allow you to spin the crank around freely. Make sure the lifters are fully bled down so valves are fully closed. Lastly, I'd perform a leak down test before reassembly. I also agree the tensioner pulley is installed incorrectly. It may not cause issues but I would check it just the same. I know the water pump clearance is an issue depending on the final position of the pulley. I've run into this before. This is also why even as a seasoned dsmer I reference the factory manual for the proper year so I don't miss small details. I had done probably 50 timing belts before I knew the pulley needed to go up or down depending on which motor.

 

[waltah]

I may be way off base here and it has been prob'ly 10 years since I did a timing belt change on a car with a hydraulic tensioner but ... this looks like a tensioner that is doing nothing. Engine turns by hand and cranks okay but when it fires the crank flips a bit of slack up there which is not grabbed up by the tensioner so the force falls on a too-small number of teeth and you get a destroyed belt.

Is the tensioner supposed to be pre-filled with oil? If it is, is it filled? (Among things I don't remember ...)

The other possibility would be that the oil pump is blocked -- say by leaving the screwdriver shaft in the test hole for the balance shaft position -- but you eliminated that by turning the engine over by hand.

 

[luv2rallye]

^^^ Try rotating the crank pulley by hand to various positions and check the belt slack with your finger each time around the tensioner and between the cam sprockets.

 

[brynd63]

Hi all, thanks for all the responses, they have been very helpful. I had been turning the tensioner the wrong direction (clock wise instead of counter clockwise) and thus it was indeed binding on the water pump housing causing the belt to strip at the crankshaft. I am finishing putting the axels in tomorrow morning and attempting to start it. Thanks everyone for your helpful responses they gave me lots of confidence when I finally seen where it was binding.

 

[Mech Addict]

Glad it’s working out. I still don’t understand how the auto tensioner pushes against the arm in a way that would induce clockwise rotation of the arm and tensioner pulley, yet the pulley gets adjusted by turning counterclockwise. I have to believe that back in the day when they made the change from 6bolt to 7 bolt engines and this procedure got basically changed to the opposite of what it had been, there were some service stations shredding belts just like yours did.

 

[waltah]

Glad it’s working out. I still don’t understand how the auto tensioner pushes against the arm in a way that would induce clockwise rotation of the arm and tensioner pulley, yet the pulley gets adjusted by turning counterclockwise. I have to believe that back in the day when they made the change from 6bolt to 7 bolt engines and this procedure got basically changed to the opposite of what it had been, there were some service stations shredding belts just like yours did.

Two different pivot points: The tensioner arm pivots around its own, it needs to go CW to tighten. But the pulley has its own eccentric pivot and is so located that CCW is the direction to tighten it while keeping it away from the water pump.

I'm probably going to do a belt replacement next summer and this thread has dramatically increased my level of terror at getting something simple, wrong. Not a bad thing in prep for that job.

 

[brynd63]

If it makes you feel any better, I just stripped another belt. I'm speechless.