2G AWD Conversion/Swap Guys Enter Here - Advanced. [Merged 2-07]

[97GSTAT]

One more question. Does anyone have a part number or know where to buy the subframe bolts? If all else fails I'll just buy high strength bolts local, but would prefer the stock bolts. Thanks again.

 

[97-gst]

I will suggest you find a parts car in junkyard or off CL. It will make things ALOT easier and you'll know exactly how to get the bolts to line up where they need to go. It saved me alot of hassle by buying a parts car and cutting the bolts i needed out of it. But if you cant get a parts car, high strength bolts would work

 

[gofer]

One more question. Does anyone have a part number or know where to buy the subframe bolts? If all else fails I'll just buy high strength bolts local, but would prefer the stock bolts. Thanks again.

I used high grade bolts from a local hardware store to bolt up my rear subframe since getting the stock GSX bolts required some fabrication to keep them from turning. I do have a set of all four GSX subframe bolts that I had to sawzall out of the back of my donor car, what a PITA. Since they are a part of the AWD chassis and welded in place I can't imagine Mitsu having a part number for them. If you'd like I can measure the lengths of them so you know what to look for locally OR you can shoot me a PM and we can work something out for the OEM subframe bolts I already have.

 

[97GSTAT]

I used high grade bolts from a local hardware store to bolt up my rear subframe since getting the stock GSX bolts required some fabrication to keep them from turning. I do have a set of all four GSX subframe bolts that I had to sawzall out of the back of my donor car, what a PITA. Since they are a part of the AWD chassis and welded in place I can't imagine Mitsu having a part number for them. If you'd like I can measure the lengths of them so you know what to look for locally OR you can shoot me a PM and we can work something out for the OEM subframe bolts I already have.

You have a PM!

 

[Gstclipse69]

Hey guys, just wanted to share some information that I have come across today. After my awd swap a bit over a year ago, I had still yet to figure out why my fuel gauge was not working. I have read everything I could, wired the assembly several different ways and still came up with nothing as far as the gauge goes. My low fuel light would work but that was it. My harness is still wired as per 99gstracer's and vfaq's diagram.
I have been upgrading my fuel system and I have had to take out and completely disassemble the fuel pump assembly to get a 6an fitting welded on top of it. If any of you have done this or have put in a fuel pump you should sort of know what the assembly looks like. To break it down, there is the pump, two lines coming down for the fuel return and the syphon from the other side of the tank, the wiring connector, and the plastic piece that has the floating rubber ball on the end of it.
The rod with the rubber ball is what tells the gauge how full the tank is because the ball will float on top the fuel level at whatever point it is at. I had to take this piece out for fear that it would melt when welding.
Once it is out and you can see the opposing side of this assembly, you will see an arrow pointing to a shall we say a "map" or this configuration that looks like a computer chip in a half moon sort of shape. The arrow I was refering to is connected to the other side of the shaft that the floating ball is on. Basically this "arrow" as I am referring to it as, is supposed to be touching or making contact with this "map" configuration facing it. Mine was not.
The shaft that the floating ball is on has some play (in and out) where it should not. Obviously the shaft has to move up and down, but it also moves in and out and that is what is causing the arrow not to be making contact where it should be. There is a spring on one side of the shaft but I am assuming it is worn out and of no use now.
This is kind of hard to explain in writing but if you have the assembly out and are looking at it, it will be pretty self explainitory. What needs to happen if you are in the same boat as me, is to make the arrow touch the "map" as I am referring to it as. There are several makeshift ways to do this, but what I did is pull the shaft to where the arrow is making contact where it needs to. Then on the opposing side of the assembly, there should be a gap about 3/16 of an inch or so that needs something to hold it from retracting. I simply cut a piece of vaccum hose that long and sliced it, then put it in the cavity left there. It was a little loose, so to tighten it up some more I took another larger piece of vaccum hose(diameter wise) and placed it over the vaccum hose I already had there to sort of clamp it down so it wouldn't move around and slide off the shaft.
That is just what I did. I am sure there are other better ways to make it work, but the way I have it, it is steady and secure and its not interfering with anything else. And now my gas gauge works!
I am assuming anyone else that has done an awd swap and cannot get there gauge to work any other way can attribut the problem to this. My thinking is just that by moving the gas tank around that much and swapping cars and all, has moved the pump assembly around enough for the "arrow" I am referring to is no longer touching where it needs to. There is a spring there but mine looks to be so worn out that it really isn't doing anything. Just throwing that out there for you guys if you have been in the same boat as me.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Okay, I have a question as well. I just finished up half of this conversion. I have my awd transmission installed with a VCE. And I'm waiting for a nice school check in about 2 or 3 months to get my driveshaft.

Now for me, I'm trying to make all this crap as simple as possible. I'm going side exit exhaust out the side of the front bumper, which helps in that I don't have to worry about exhaust hangers and all. I'm also going with an ACPT one-piece carbon fiber driveshaft. That eliminates the need to have to weld on hangers for the driveshaft, as well as give me a light driveshaft at the same time.

So here's the question. If I don't have to worry about exhaust hangers or welding on carrier bearing brackets, is there anything I really need to worry about welding if I do all this on jackstands? Aside from maybe welding any metal back that was cut to remove/install subframe bolts back up later. I wanna get all this done on the ground, then drive it to a shop and have them weld anything back up that was cut.

Oh, one other question. Where's the best place to do the cutting for removing/installing the bolts? It might be March or April, but I have the subframe and gas tank that I may install while waiting on the money for the driveshaft. Thanks. And hope you guys figure out the fuel level sensor I see everyone talking about.

 

[eclipsh]

If you aren't welding the brackets in for the drive shaft the only other welding is for the sub-frame bolts. You should be good to go on that front. For cutting locations people do all sorts of things. I just used a hole saw and called it good but in my Galant the seats and carpet are always in and cover the holes. Going in through the side with triangular flaps isn't a bad way to go since you can add extra reinforcement.

 

[gorf]

I'm also going with an ACPT one-piece carbon fiber driveshaft. That eliminates the need to have to weld on hangers for the driveshaft, as well as give me a light driveshaft at the same time.

Why?
Everything that I have read indicates that a one peice shaft is a bad idea. The reason DSM went with the two piece was breakage due to the extreme angle.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dri...-peice-driveshaft-my-95tsi.html#post152030826

It is your car, but make sure you are not wasting money to avoid a simple job of replacing hangers - the GSX drive shaft hangers go in the same place as the GST exhaust hangers. When I did the conversion I used steel pop rivets and metal glue instead of welding them in. They have not moved or rusted and are as strong as the day installed.

 

[link16]

I have been tearing apart my AWD donor car and have been memorizing the AWD swap write ups. the only part that throws me through a loop is the front bolts for the Spyder. The hole in the side of the frame rail, in the wheel well, seems like it would not yeild any easy way to remove the bolt. If someone that has done it could add a little detail, that would be awesome.

Thank you in advance.

 

[gorf]

I have been tearing apart my AWD donor car and have been memorizing the AWD swap write ups. the only part that throws me through a loop is the front bolts for the Spyder. The hole in the side of the frame rail, in the wheel well, seems like it would not yeild any easy way to remove the bolt. If someone that has done it could add a little detail, that would be awesome.

Thank you in advance.

If you mean this hole
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dri...e-advanced-merged-2-07-a-5.html#post151339026

That is for slipping the bolt from the awd IN. You can not get to that location from the top due the the supports in back seat of the spyder. You can cut through either side to get this front bolt in, I just found it easier to go from wheel side. The dotted line is the centerline of the bolt location, the hole was cut in front of it just to slip the bolt in.

As far as removing the front bolt from the spyder - why? Just cut the bolt off and leave it.

 

[99gst_racer]

As far as removing the front bolt from the spyder - why? Just cut the bolt off and leave it.

That's exactly what I did. I cut it flush with the underside of the car and then put a small weld tack on it to keep it from vibtating.

 

[link16]

Oh I get it now, so the AWD rear bolts go where the FWD rear bolts are removed from, BUT the front bolt location is different than the FWD location! I get it. So, me pulling the front AWD bolts was a waste of my time?

Thanks guys.

 

[gorf]

Oh I get it now, so the AWD rear bolts go where the FWD rear bolts are removed from, BUT the front bolt location is different than the FWD location! I get it. So, me pulling the front AWD bolts was a waste of my time?

Thanks guys.

Right there is new location for the bolts.

Read Jays write up on vfaq.com, about half way through where he is talking about cutting a hole in the frame to drop bolt from the fwd back in. The picture shows the location of the rear, original front and new location for the front bolts.

Once you get the spyder stripped it will become clear to you.

 

[link16]

^ Thank you sir. I will hopefully be ready to pull the spyder into the garage in the coming week, and drive out under awd the following week.

Thanks to everyone that wrote a write-up, and who answered my questions.

 

[DashLaflash]

This may be a stupid question but has anybody tried modifying a GSX subframe to mount up to the GST subframe mounting points? I'm assuming the factory extended the mounting locations on the AWD subframe to account for the power being put through the rear diff. I'm not sure if it would twist the body or do something terrible but it would prevent you from having to cut into the body. I was thinking of cutting out the mounting area of the FWD subframe and welding it into the AWD subframe, allowing the AWD subframe to bolt onto a FWD car. This would create a nearly bolt on swap when combined with the frontline fabrications bolt in fuel cell.

 

[eclipsh]

This may be a stupid question but has anybody tried modifying a GSX subframe to mount up to the GST subframe mounting points? I'm assuming the factory extended the mounting locations on the AWD subframe to account for the power being put through the rear diff. I'm not sure if it would twist the body or do something terrible but it would prevent you from having to cut into the body. I was thinking of cutting out the mounting area of the FWD subframe and welding it into the AWD subframe, allowing the AWD subframe to bolt onto a FWD car. This would create a nearly bolt on swap when combined with the frontline fabrications bolt in fuel cell.

Aside from the structural and potential safety issues it would also require fairly accurate custom fabrication which would, in my opinion, be more work. I like that you're thinking outside the box though.

 

[DashLaflash]

Well the rear mounting points are identical between subframes so you would only have to worry about the front bolt holes. What if you left the extended part of the AWD subframe still on. It would still be pressing against the body adding support even though bolts aren't going through the front holes of the AWD subframe. There are plenty of rusted out DSMs around. Maybe someone reading this will be crazy enough to try it . I'm just trying to keep thinking outside the box.

 

[Gstclipse69]

I understand what you are trying to do with the fwd subframe but you would still have to accomodate subframe bushings into the fwd subframe. In all the time spent trying to modify the fwd subframe one could easily cut a small access hole and drop an awd bolt in there. Its all covered up by carpet and such anyway.
And even if you could make the fwd subframe "bolt on" and go to the expense of a "bolt on" fuel cell you would still have to weld in the driveshaft brackets.

I too appreciate someone thinking outside the box, but I think the cons outweigh the pros on this one.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

It'd be nice to unbolt the parts of the awd diff, etc. and just bolt in the parts to the fwd subframe so that ya wouldn't have to do all the drilling and crap. I haven't done this yet and my main concern is worrying about having to drill a hole, get it in the wrong spot, and then have to do another hole....leaving holes all over the dang place. I'm personally looking for the easiest and least time consuming way of doing this.

My other concern is the fuel level sensor cause it seems as though a lot of people have an issue with it reading correctly. And as many problems that I have that should be simple things to do on my car, I really don't wanna deal with ANOTHER issue.

 

[Gstclipse69]

What I did as far as drilling holes; get a long drill bit, say 16" or so. Drill up into the car from underneath where the bolt holes are. It will drill through the sheet metal and then you will know where to cut an access hole.

 

[abaum565]

Hey guys, just wanted to share some information that I have come across today. After my awd swap a bit over a year ago, I had still yet to figure out why my fuel gauge was not working. I have read everything I could, wired the assembly several different ways and still came up with nothing as far as the gauge goes. My low fuel light would work but that was it. My harness is still wired as per 99gstracer's and vfaq's diagram.
I have been upgrading my fuel system and I have had to take out and completely disassemble the fuel pump assembly to get a 6an fitting welded on top of it. If any of you have done this or have put in a fuel pump you should sort of know what the assembly looks like. To break it down, there is the pump, two lines coming down for the fuel return and the syphon from the other side of the tank, the wiring connector, and the plastic piece that has the floating rubber ball on the end of it.
The rod with the rubber ball is what tells the gauge how full the tank is because the ball will float on top the fuel level at whatever point it is at. I had to take this piece out for fear that it would melt when welding.
Once it is out and you can see the opposing side of this assembly, you will see an arrow pointing to a shall we say a "map" or this configuration that looks like a computer chip in a half moon sort of shape. The arrow I was refering to is connected to the other side of the shaft that the floating ball is on. Basically this "arrow" as I am referring to it as, is supposed to be touching or making contact with this "map" configuration facing it. Mine was not.
The shaft that the floating ball is on has some play (in and out) where it should not. Obviously the shaft has to move up and down, but it also moves in and out and that is what is causing the arrow not to be making contact where it should be. There is a spring on one side of the shaft but I am assuming it is worn out and of no use now.
This is kind of hard to explain in writing but if you have the assembly out and are looking at it, it will be pretty self explainitory. What needs to happen if you are in the same boat as me, is to make the arrow touch the "map" as I am referring to it as. There are several makeshift ways to do this, but what I did is pull the shaft to where the arrow is making contact where it needs to. Then on the opposing side of the assembly, there should be a gap about 3/16 of an inch or so that needs something to hold it from retracting. I simply cut a piece of vaccum hose that long and sliced it, then put it in the cavity left there. It was a little loose, so to tighten it up some more I took another larger piece of vaccum hose(diameter wise) and placed it over the vaccum hose I already had there to sort of clamp it down so it wouldn't move around and slide off the shaft.
That is just what I did. I am sure there are other better ways to make it work, but the way I have it, it is steady and secure and its not interfering with anything else. And now my gas gauge works!
I am assuming anyone else that has done an awd swap and cannot get there gauge to work any other way can attribut the problem to this. My thinking is just that by moving the gas tank around that much and swapping cars and all, has moved the pump assembly around enough for the "arrow" I am referring to is no longer touching where it needs to. There is a spring there but mine looks to be so worn out that it really isn't doing anything. Just throwing that out there for you guys if you have been in the same boat as me.

This is great to know.

Question for you though....did your gas gauge not work at all? did the need move any when full?

Mine will move to half way when it's full and then go down from there. So empty would be half full, etc.

If yours did this, then that would be a great sign that I have the same problem. If not, does anyone else have any ideas why that's happening. I am wired according to Paul's diagram.

 

[DashLaflash]

What I did as far as drilling holes; get a long drill bit, say 16" or so. Drill up into the car from underneath where the bolt holes are. It will drill through the sheet metal and then you will know where to cut an access hole.

How do you drill out the rear fwd subframe bolts though? You cant drill up from underneath the car as there is already a bolt in the hole. Do you just kinda guess where they are.

 

[DSM_PWR]

Are you guys talking about the (4) Bolts that hold the rear subframe in place?

You dont have to do any guessing around really, the holes for the front (2) bolts are already there, you just have to cut a piece of metal under the rear seats to get to them

Here's some pics to help along

Here's where the fronts are

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The Rears

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[Gstclipse69]

This is great to know.

Question for you though....did your gas gauge not work at all? did the need move any when full?

Mine will move to half way when it's full and then go down from there. So empty would be half full, etc.

If yours did this, then that would be a great sign that I have the same problem. If not, does anyone else have any ideas why that's happening. I am wired according to Paul's diagram.

Well, when my fwd tank was in the car with the fwd sending unit etc. the gas gauge worked fine. It read accordingly. Once I swapped the awd gas tank in with the awd sender unit the gas gauge sat on empty and did not move at all. The only thing that worked was the low fuel light.

 

[DashLaflash]

Are you guys talking about the (4) Bolts that hold the rear subframe in place?

You dont have to do any guessing around really, the holes for the front (2) bolts are already there, you just have to cut a piece of metal under the rear seats to get to them

That doesn't look too bad at all. Just a little snip here, little snip there .