Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

[CrackedDSM]

What base FP are you targeting?

43.5ish. On the MAF tune, it liked global right at like -57.0 and matched the AFRest/tables perfectly at 5500.



I have been extremely tempted to bump fuel pressure up to 50 to try to see if that'll help fight the sudden lean spike.



But, the thing that keeps getting me is how inconsistent it is. Tomorrow as soon as I wake up and eat, I'm gonna set the NB Simulate to take the possible o2 sensor issues out of the equation. If that doesn't fix it, I have no clue what to do tbh. Nuclear option is to put a MAF on the car and drive it to PCB to let Scott Laird tune it in person.

 

[Anfurnyy]

I fell like it's ISC related somehow. Everyone the isc drops it pulls a bunch of fuel.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I fell like it's ISC related somehow. Everyone the isc drops it pulls a bunch of fuel.

View attachment 746276

Not sure how to fix that though with the idle being an australian olympic breakdancer.


I was watching an old Joe Bucci(RIP ) video of him installing SD, and someone asked him in the comments how he got it working so fast and his words that stuck out to me were "It's all about VE and getting the ISC set up properly". So he directly mentioned the ISC and SD being directly tied.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Not sure how to fix that though with the idle being an australian olympic breakdancer.


I was watching an old Joe Bucci(RIP ) video of him installing SD, and someone asked him in the comments how he got it working so fast and his words that stuck out to me were "It's all about VE and getting the ISC set up properly". So he directly mentioned the ISC and SD being directly tied.

Are you logging EVERYTHING? I don't see learned idle adjust in displayed values.

From my understanding ISC definitely will effect AFR. Lower the ISC, it blocks more air, higher the number the more air it lets through.
So think, if your ISC drops, your car is still injecting the same amount of fuel BUT now with less air (because ISC isnt allowing more air around the throttle plate) now it runs Rich.

I did just see this while searching around.
@Justin DuBois ISC only works right if it's in closed loop?

 

[Anfurnyy]

Not sure how to fix that though with the idle being an australian olympic breakdancer.

Also this made me laugh way harder than it should have talk about no joke!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Set your global a tad richer than the calculator says. Don't play with the fuel pressure. Leave it at 43.5-44. Work on globals, deadtime for idle and the VE table to get it to idle around stoich if deadtimes cant do it. It will bounce around a bit but 14.2-15-2 is normal. "Track" your table to see what box it is looking at and work with it, then smooth the boxes around it. You will learn alot playing with those and watching your AFR gauge. Leave the FP as a constant in the equation.
If you are using NB simulation, the WB will start to cycle around 14.0ish. Your BISS screw should be around 1 1/2- 2 turns out. I pay no attention to my ISC or my RevperMin stuff, I get the car to run with those 3 things and the idle stop switch, being the only variables usually.
DISCLAIMER: I'm no TUNER!

 

[CrackedDSM]

Are you logging EVERYTHING? I don't see learned idle adjust in displayed values.

From my understanding ISC definitely will effect AFR. Lower the ISC, it blocks more air, higher the number the more air it lets through.
So think, if your ISC drops, your car is still injecting the same amount of fuel BUT now with less air (because ISC isnt allowing more air around the throttle plate) now it runs Rich.

I did just see this while searching around.
@Justin DuBois ISC only works right if it's in closed loop?

View attachment 746279

What I mean though, is the ISC Position will range from like 20-30, all the way up to 70-80. There's no real consistency with it at all. When I think it's set perfect, I'll wait and it'll change and go way out of adjustment again. There's something else wrong but I just don't know what it is. I really don't wanna just throw parts at it because that never seems to work...but I'm kind of out of ideas. I'll set the NB simulation tomorrow, and if that doesn't fix it I'll throw a bigger fuel pump that's brand spanking new in it. Somewhere in there I'll get some injectors to test, or send mine out to be cleaned. If that doesn't work then it's a wiring issue or something. Before I give up entirely I'll just tag Scott Laird in and see what happens. If he finds the issue and it's just a user error I'll blast that shit everywhere.

Also this made me laugh way harder than it should have talk about no joke!

Good. It's funny because its the painful truth. With the "*yawns at your attempt*" and everything.

 

[b00zt3d spyd3r]

What I mean though, is the ISC Position will range from like 20-30, all the way up to 70-80. There's no real consistency with it at all. When I think it's set perfect, I'll wait and it'll change and go way out of adjustment again. There's something else wrong but I just don't know what it is. I really don't wanna just throw parts at it because that never seems to work...but I'm kind of out of ideas. I'll set the NB simulation tomorrow, and if that doesn't fix it I'll throw a bigger fuel pump that's brand spanking new in it. Somewhere in there I'll get some injectors to test, or send mine out to be cleaned. If that doesn't work then it's a wiring issue or something. Before I give up entirely I'll just tag Scott Laird in and see what happens. If he finds the issue and it's just a user error I'll blast that shit everywhere.






Good. It's funny because its the painful truth. With the "*yawns at your attempt*" and everything.

If the iscposition is doing that much movement at idle without you making adjustments via biss then id start there first. I mean it'll go up/down when fans kick on or off and such but still shouldn't be that big i don't think

 

[CrackedDSM]

If the iscposition is doing that much movement at idle without you making adjustments via biss then id start there first.

I'll try it again, I've just set it before and it will be cool for awhile, and I'll think "hey, it's perfect, I have a PhD in breakdancing maybe I should force my way to the Olympics because I'm totally legit, yo" then after the car sits for a little while, and I go start it back up it is completely different, and next thing you know I'm the butt of everyone's joke and a meme all over the internet. Figuratively speaking.

 

[b00zt3d spyd3r]

I'll try it again, I've just set it before and it will be cool for awhile, and I'll think "hey, it's perfect, I have a PhD in breakdancing maybe I should force my way to the Olympics because I'm totally legit, yo" then after the car sits for a little while, and I go start it back up it is completely different, and next thing you know I'm the butt of everyone's joke and a meme all over the internet. Figuratively speaking.

But what's its at after 190°? At operating temps without fans on it should hover ~30.

 

[CrackedDSM]

But what's its at after 190°? At operating temps without fans on it should hover ~30.

With this log you can kind of see. At the beginning of the log its 200* and like 20-low 30's. Then it decides to start flopping around on the floor and before it dies it'll go to like 60-70. At one point it dropped to like 19 and I had to tap the gas to keep it from dying.

 

[Stapl3]

Swear to zod whoever fixes this is getting a d*ck pic in their inbox.

 

[CrackedDSM]

If I end up fixing it myself everyone’s getting a d*ck pic.


Share victory or share defeat.

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

I'll need everyone to sign my petition for banning Corey, or at least removing his ability to upload images.

I think we're all good without a particular image. It's unclear if anyone should help you or not. We want it fixed, but don't need your fix in return

 

[Anfurnyy]

If I end up fixing it myself everyone’s getting a d*ck pic.


Share victory or share defeat.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I'll need everyone to sign my petition for banning Corey, or at least removing his ability to upload images.

I think we're all good without a particular image. It's unclear if anyone should help you or not. We want it fixed, but don't need your fix in return

No idea who Corey is, but ban TF outta that bastard.


Good thing I'm Cory.

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

Yeah. My not so close "neighbor" who I've bought cars from is named Corey.

New petition: Equal rights for all Corey's and Cory's!

 

[CrackedDSM]

Cory is the correct gaelic spelling of it. Anyone else doesn't deserve rights.


But yeah. More work tomorrow I guess. Gonna compression test it for giggles too, just because I bought a new compression tester and want to use it since I've got it.

 

[pauleyman]

Are you logging EVERYTHING? I don't see learned idle adjust in displayed values.

From my understanding ISC definitely will effect AFR. Lower the ISC, it blocks more air, higher the number the more air it lets through.

Think about this for a sec. Regardless of what isc is all the air is measured. It can't affect afr. If it let's more air in more air is measure and more fuel is added....rpm goes up. That's the very job of isc.

So think, if your ISC drops, your car is still injecting the same amount of fuel BUT now with less air (because ISC isnt allowing more air around the throttle plate) now it runs Rich.

I did just see this while searching around.
@Justin DuBois ISC only works right if it's in closed loop?

View attachment 746279

 

[CrackedDSM]

Anyone wanna let me borrow some 850cc+ injectors before I pull mine out and pay $125+ to have them cleaned and flowed and it not fix my issue? I'll pay shipping both ways.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Think about this for a sec. Regardless of what isc is all the air is measured. It can't affect afr. If it let's more air in more air is measure and more fuel is added....rpm goes up. That's the very job of isc.

I appreciate you explaining that so humbly. That all does makes sense.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Quick question, when I was testing my fuel pump earlier today it really struggled to make it to 80psi. Is this normal? I think the P.O. said it was a Walbro 255. I'm very tempted to test its fuel flow per Kevin Jewer's testing instructions on his website and see what's going on.

I just have this feeling it's a mechanical issue and once I identify and fix it, it'll be smooth sailing (tune wise).

 

[Justin DuBois]

I did find something in your DA tables - Did you know your open loop thresholds are non-stock? Maybe you were trying to force Open loop? Since we are having idle issues in this area, you could consider putting this back to stock - unless you have a reason for having it this way.

FYI - Your OpenLoopMxOct tables are very modified. Is that desirable? Remind me what fuel are you using?
Here - you have 1100 rpm as an idle target. Not my cup of tea, but maybe this is because your cams are giving you a hard time.

Here is your SD table - and in the idle area you are pulling out a LOT of fuel. Do you really want to pull fuel here? I think this is working against your global dead times. I know your cams are messing with you, but I would try a stock VE table to dial in Global dead time.

Open Loop lock is enabled - (turn that off), and you can disable airflow smoothing when running SD mode.

In the realm of modified sensor inputs, there are some changes I would do: Set the Wideband pull down to the channel where your wideband is connected (EGR Temp). It can stay set to EGR Temp weather you enable NB sim or not.

Also - you can enable the input locks for the factory sensors inputs that are no longer factory sensors.

If you are not getting DTC errors this won't matter, but as the EGR and o2 settings are no longer stock, you can disable these tests.

Your narrow band is cycling, and I see the ISC stepping about. This is the minimum set of parameters I recommend for logging:

 

[CrackedDSM]

Everybody better make sure their inbox is clear and has space for an extra picture...


Because changing nothing but what @Justin DuBois said has made significant progress. The car started and idled, and could almost...almost be revved w/ WOT. It bogs under WOT like usual, but blipping the throttle is significantly more responsive. I think with a few more tweaks, the car may actually be able to be driven soon!

Logs below w/ descriptive titles. Honestly the car seems to like the VE Adjust with no deadtime maps/settings better. But I'm open to whatever the seasoned vets think looks better. As always, adjust what you see and post it back up so I can try it. This is the first time that I feel real genuine progress has been made though.

 

[b00zt3d spyd3r]

Everybody better make sure their inbox is clear and has space for an extra picture...


Because changing nothing but what @Justin DuBois said has made significant progress. The car started and idled, and could almost...almost be revved w/ WOT. It bogs under WOT like usual, but blipping the throttle is significantly more responsive. I think with a few more tweaks, the car may actually be able to be driven soon!

Logs below w/ descriptive titles. Honestly the car seems to like the VE Adjust with no deadtime maps/settings better. But I'm open to whatever the seasoned vets think looks better. As always, adjust what you see and post it back up so I can try it. This is the first time that I feel real genuine progress has been made though.

Im gonna block you before it's all said and done jk justin has been helping me along with mine also. Awesome dude