Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

[CrackedDSM]

Kind of switching gears here for this one post, but apparently you can use cans of computer duster/air dusters that contain R152a for your old A/C systems. It's supposedly an awesome refrigerant and more compatible with old R12 systems. And it's cheap AF. You also supposedly can use it on R134a systems too. There's a whole conversion chart as to how much to use for what system, but yeah.


I will be documenting this process on this build once I finally reach the stage of installing A/C back into this car.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Seeing as how it's almost the weekend when I'll have time to actually mess with the car, does anyone else have anymore tips?


If I adjust deadtimes and the car is no longer rich at idle but is undrivable everywhere else...what would you do next?

If the answer is to adjust the VE table...would someone be willing to help me smooth the table out after I get it idling at a decent AFR and AirflowPerRev?

What would you set the TPSDelta/BaseTipInAdjust DA tables to?

Is there more I can do that I'm not remembering mechanically wise? So far I'm gonna check compression and just delete the narrowband sensor and have ECMLink do the Narrowband simulation. Anything else I can check or should check? Reminder, I've verified both mechanical and base timing, I've done boost leak tests, I've checked the exhaust for leaks.

So yeah...please feel free to give me a laundry list. I'll ask again though, if I get it idling with VE adjustments and I post up a log...can someone critique and smooth out the VE table when I do that? I'll try but I don't have high hopes.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Adding another thing to the list. I think it was Kevin Jewer's checklist that said one thing to test before a tune, is to unhook the vacuum line to the AFPR, and turn the knob until the gauge reads like 80psi. Basically, testing the fuel pump and seeing how it behaves/making sure that up to +30lbs of extra pressure is doable for the pump. Figured this couldn't hurt, as I have no idea how old the fuel pump is.


Been pouring over old MAF logs and it's just crazy how this sudden lean spike has been plaguing me from the beginning. Someone said big injectors can cause this when you hit the pedal it creates a sudden drop in fuel pressure at the rail, and I kind of believe that's happening. Problem is, I have no idea how to solve this, if this is the issue. Regardless, testing the pump via the regulator will help me feel a whole lot better.

 

[Anfurnyy]

If I adjust deadtimes and the car is no longer rich at idle but is undrivable everywhere else...what would you do next?

Adjust VE

If the answer is to adjust the VE table...would someone be willing to help me smooth the table out after I get it idling at a decent AFR and AirflowPerRev?

Id be willing to try but I'm no Expert with VE tables. Lol

What would you set the TPSDelta/BaseTipInAdjust DA tables to?

This is a trial and error type of thing. Every car / setup is different even if they are the same.

Adding another thing to the list. I think it was Kevin Jewer's checklist that said one thing to test before a tune, is to unhook the vacuum line to the AFPR, and turn the knob until the gauge reads like 80psi. Basically, testing the fuel pump and seeing how it behaves/making sure that up to +30lbs of extra pressure is doable for the pump. Figured this couldn't hurt, as I have no idea how old the fuel pump is.


Been pouring over old MAF logs and it's just crazy how this sudden lean spike has been plaguing me from the beginning. Someone said big injectors can cause this when you hit the pedal it creates a sudden drop in fuel pressure at the rail, and I kind of believe that's happening. Problem is, I have no idea how to solve this, if this is the issue. Regardless, testing the pump via the regulator will help me feel a whole lot better.

I think that's a good thing to check. Do you know what pump is it in?
This is also another reason why it's really nice to have fuel pressure logged. Completely doable by using one of the other unused inputs on your ECU.

 

[Anfurnyy]

If the answer is to adjust the VE table...would someone be willing to help me smooth the table out after I get it idling at a decent AFR and AirflowPerRev?

If you want your AirflowPerRev to be correct you'll have to remove VE from the idle cells. Like Stapl3 said, you can get the car running right by just removing global dead time at this point but your airflow measurements won't look right later on.

The VE table doesn't directly add fuel, per se. You're actually telling he car how efficiently it's filling the cylinder with air at that load / engine rpm, which directly effects adding / removing fuel.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Seeing as how it's almost the weekend when I'll have time to actually mess with the car, does anyone else have anymore tips?


If I adjust deadtimes and the car is no longer rich at idle but is undrivable everywhere else...what would you do next?

If the answer is to adjust the VE table...would someone be willing to help me smooth the table out after I get it idling at a decent AFR and AirflowPerRev?

What would you set the TPSDelta/BaseTipInAdjust DA tables to?

Is there more I can do that I'm not remembering mechanically wise? So far I'm gonna check compression and just delete the narrowband sensor and have ECMLink do the Narrowband simulation. Anything else I can check or should check? Reminder, I've verified both mechanical and base timing, I've done boost leak tests, I've checked the exhaust for leaks.

So yeah...please feel free to give me a laundry list. I'll ask again though, if I get it idling with VE adjustments and I post up a log...can someone critique and smooth out the VE table when I do that? I'll try but I don't have high hopes.

Sorry to go backwards - Can you summarize where you are at?
1. Base Fuel pressure (without the vac hose attached)
2. Global Fuel - (Were you able to set the global fuel to hit AFR targets at the VE peak? Did you need to move or extend the VE peak into the 5k-5.5k collumn?)
3. Global Dead time - (Were you able to get idle combined fuel trims to +-2% at 700-900 RPM in closed loop 14.7AFR)
4. Do you have a 3rd gear pull 2-7.5K without knock to start tweaking the VE table?

-Justin

 

[CrackedDSM]

Got two logs for you guys. I labeled them so they should be pretty straightforward and easy to identify. These are idle logs only.


Both of these logs result in the car idling on its own. It definitely seems to prefer to idle with the VE adjustments alone. When I only remove deadtime and leave the VE table alone, it'll idle....but super grudgingly. Also seems like it has ever so slightly of a misfire. Not a real misfire, just a...stumble.


But, you'll also see the drastic amount I have to pull out of the VE table just to get it to idle.

As always, make revisions and let me know.


Also: I included a small, gentle increase in RPMs in the "Adjust VE with no deadtime adjust" at the very end so you can see how quickly the numbers jump from cell to cell. I really don't think adjusting TPSDelta will help because it's not a sharp stab. But yeah. On the "no VE Adjust" you cannot rev it up either. It does the same thing as the Adjust VE log. Just bogs and dies because of lean condition.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Got two logs for you guys. I labeled them so they should be pretty straightforward and easy to identify. These are idle logs only.


Both of these logs result in the car idling on its own. It definitely seems to prefer to idle with the VE adjustments alone. When I only remove deadtime and leave the VE table alone, it'll idle....but super grudgingly. Also seems like it has ever so slightly of a misfire. Not a real misfire, just a...stumble.


But, you'll also see the drastic amount I have to pull out of the VE table just to get it to idle.

As always, make revisions and let me know.


Also: I included a small, gentle increase in RPMs in the "Adjust VE with no deadtime adjust" at the very end so you can see how quickly the numbers jump from cell to cell. I really don't think adjusting TPSDelta will help because it's not a sharp stab. But yeah. On the "no VE Adjust" you cannot rev it up either. It does the same thing as the Adjust VE log. Just bogs and dies because of lean condition.

I think that all looks pretty good. Fueling is only 3% off or so and AirflowPerRev is about where it needs to be. Just need to get global accurate.

I smoothed into the rest of the table, lowered VE a little at 0 vacuum 3500-5k.
Try to drive it and get to that 5500 WOT and that will help dial in global fuel. Keep em eye on your wideband though and make sure you're not too lean.
Your idle VE is a little low but changing your global fuel when you do your WOT pull and it'll bring your VE up a little.

 

[CrackedDSM]

This car makes me so sad man. Log attached. Car still undriveable. Including in log is what happens when gas is given. Adjusted TPSDelta as high as like almost 30, didn't help.


Is my fuel pump dying or something?


Suns down so I can't start and mess with the car anymore so I'm done for the day. This car hurts my feelings. Why is it oscillating so wildly from mid 11's to 15's in OL out of nowhere? I really don't understand. FWIW when I adjust the AFPR to test the max limits of the pump, it struggles to make anything over 70psi.

@Stapl3

 

[Stapl3]

Try NBO2 Sim.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Try NBO2 Sim.

Will do.


Swear to zod whoever fixes this is getting a d*ck pic in their inbox.

 

[b00zt3d spyd3r]

Can I ask why you lock it in open loop?

 

[CrackedDSM]

Can I ask why you lock it in open loop?

Probably wrong but my thought process is to get it as close as possible without assistance from the computer, so when I put it back into closed loop it'll have an easier job.


But, I actually didn't mean to lock it in open loop this time. I hit "save all" on an old file and forgot to uncheck that box and fix the tables in direct access.


But, I replaced the fuel filter today with a brand new one. Seemed like the old one was fine. I am extremely tempted to swap out the fuel pump for a 340LPH model so that 1) I know it's new and in great condition 2) I know it'll flow enough for E85 or the Green @ full kill.

 

[DreamChaser7]

Will do.


Swear to zod whoever fixes this is getting a d*ck pic in their inbox.

So you don’t want any help??

 

[CrackedDSM]

..whoever fixes it gets a d*ck pic sent to their number/person of choice? Is that better?

 

[b00zt3d spyd3r]

Probably wrong but my thought process is to get it as close as possible without assistance from the computer, so when I put it back into closed loop it'll have an easier job.


But, I actually didn't mean to lock it in open loop this time. I hit "save all" on an old file and forgot to uncheck that box and fix the tables in direct access.


But, I replaced the fuel filter today with a brand new one. Seemed like the old one was fine. I am extremely tempted to swap out the fuel pump for a 340LPH model so that 1) I know it's new and in great condition 2) I know it'll flow enough for E85 or the Green @ full kill.

I have an old walbro 255 that was working when replaced if you wanna try that but I dont think that's your issue right this minute. I was steady trying to get idle dialed in first on mine, and that is fine but you're gonna have to go back and do it again after doing your wot tuning. Unclick lock in open loop and start it and get it up to temp and do the 3rd gear pull log from 1500-6500 and let off if you see knock. From there we can "calculate" injector size better inside ecmlink and make those adjustments and make more logs till wot is dialed in. THEN work on idle and cruise. I was banging my head against the wall until I did this and I'm way closer on my trims now than I was trying to do idle first.

 

[Anfurnyy]

I have an old walbro 255 that was working when replaced if you wanna try that but I dont think that's your issue right this minute. I was steady trying to get idle dialed in first on mine, and that is fine but you're gonna have to go back and do it again after doing your wot tuning. Unclick lock in open loop and start it and get it up to temp and do the 3rd gear pull log from 1500-6500 and let off if you see knock. From there we can "calculate" injector size better inside ecmlink and make those adjustments and make more logs till wot is dialed in. THEN work on idle and cruise. I was banging my head against the wall until I did this and I'm way closer on my trims now than I was trying to do idle first.

Problem is that you've got it to at least get it to idle decent and drive a little. It sounds like it stumbles so bad it won't move

 

[b00zt3d spyd3r]

Problem is that you've got it to at least get it to idle decent and drive a little. It sounds like it stumbles so bad it won't move

that iscposition still sticks out to me too, kinda all over the place?

 

[Justin DuBois]

I did notice a few things that I would set differently, but may have nothing to do with your current struggle. You want some screen shots?

 

[Anfurnyy]

that iscposition still sticks out to me too, kinda all over the place?

I agree.

@CrackedDSM if I remember right you said you have used injectors and they haven't been cleaned or inspected?

 

[Anfurnyy]

Also a really dumb question BUT did you set base fuel pressure with the vacuum line off the FPR?

 

[CrackedDSM]

I did notice a few things that I would set differently, but may have nothing to do with your current struggle. You want some screen shots?

Always. Even if it doesn't seem related, I'm always open for advice and tips/tricks from those who know.

I agree.

@CrackedDSM if I remember right you said you have used injectors and they haven't been cleaned or inspected?

Yeah, they're very old. They haven't been cleaned. I put new seals and stuff in them, but other than that...no idea.

Also a really dumb question BUT did you set base fuel pressure with the vacuum line off the FPR?

Yeah. I just set it with the engine off and ECMLink activating the fuel pump.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Always. Even if it doesn't seem related, I'm always open for advice and tips/tricks from those who know.




Yeah, they're very old. They haven't been cleaned. I put new seals and stuff in them, but other than that...no idea.




Yeah. I just set it with the engine off and ECMLink activating the fuel pump.

Id definitely have them cleaned, not saying that's the issue but goofy injectors cause a lot of weird shit.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Always. Even if it doesn't seem related, I'm always open for advice and tips/tricks from those who know.




Yeah, they're very old. They haven't been cleaned. I put new seals and stuff in them, but other than that...no idea.




Yeah. I just set it with the engine off and ECMLink activating the fuel pump.

What base FP are you targeting?

 

[CrackedDSM]

Maybe there's someone relatively locally to me that I can borrow some and use them to test.


Whatever Ghost there is, I can't wait to find it. I really sincerely hope its not a wiring gremlin of some kind.