Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

[CrackedDSM]

Nope.

Posting these two logs without comment, you'll see what I have to do and how it acts.

 

[JG63]

Been following along with the Tuning.

Looking at the picture in post #1,311. A question for everyone helping you, Is it ok or "good" to T the MAP Sensor in with the BOV?

 

[CrackedDSM]

Been following along with the Tuning.

Looking at the picture in post #1,311. A question for everyone helping you, Is it ok or "good" to T the MAP Sensor in with the BOV?

I removed the T and ran the map sensor on a dedicated 3-4” hose from the same spot. Still doing the same thing. That was one of the first things I fixed thinking it had to be messing with me

 

[Stapl3]

Nope.

Posting these two logs without comment, you'll see what I have to do and how it acts.

Keep pulling deadtime.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Keep pulling deadtime.

Just so I know for the future(I’m at work now so progress is at a stand still), what do I do if I pull deadtime and get idle stoich, but any throttle input kills it?

 

[Anfurnyy]

Keep pulling deadtime.

His AirflowPerRev is pretty high. He should try to remove the 20% he's rich from his idle cells, yeah?
I know that AirflowPerRev isnt super necessary but its nice to have good data for airflow?

 

[Anfurnyy]

Im also learning a bit here, but just to recap from what ive been researching:
- AirflowPerRev should be like .28-.30ish with Cams
- If AirflowPerRev is high, Lower VE in those cells to help bring it down
A: IFlowering VE to fix AirflowPerRev knocks you off your AFR target BUT now AirflowPerRev is around where it needs to be, then adjust global deadtime to get your idle fuel back to target.
- Do 3rd gear pull and see if VE at 5500 is 100 or very close, if not then adjust global fuel to try and hit that mark.
A: If you need more fuel at that 5500, then make Global Fuel less negative to add more fuel. Make more negative if you need to remove. Should be able to just add the percentage off according to WBFactor to the global fuel?
- If Global Fuel is adjusted then all fueling will need adjusted again.

Source: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/setting-up-ve-table.487628/post-153471154

 

[CrackedDSM]

Im also learning a bit here, but just to recap from what ive been researching:
- AirflowPerRev should be like .28-.30ish with Cams
- If AirflowPerRev is high, Lower VE in those cells to help bring it down
A: IFlowering VE to fix AirflowPerRev knocks you off your AFR target BUT now AirflowPerRev is around where it needs to be, then adjust global deadtime to get your idle fuel back to target.
- Do 3rd gear pull and see if VE at 5500 is 100 or very close, if not then adjust global fuel to try and hit that mark.
A: If you need more fuel at that 5500, then make Global Fuel less negative to add more fuel. Make more negative if you need to remove. Should be able to just add the percentage off according to WBFactor to the global fuel?
- If Global Fuel is adjusted then all fueling will need adjusted again.

Source: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/setting-up-ve-table.487628/post-153471154

The problem is anything I do to fix idle makes the car undrivable. If it idles on its own, any sudden gas pedal input kills it. Maybe I just don’t know how to properly smooth VE cells but yeah.

I’m tagging in Scott Laird to help as well. I didn’t want to because he’s busy and he’s been burned by people before but I’m desperate.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Just so I know for the future(I’m at work now so progress is at a stand still), what do I do if I pull deadtime and get idle stoich, but any throttle input kills it?

This is kind of 2 part question. Gradual fuel and not a stab probably means your VE needs some work. I see its about 20% rich at idle, and in some small throttle spots (that dont trigger tps delta its about 15% rich.
Now if you stab it like at the end of that first log and it triggers tpsdelta, and runs lean like it did i think youd need some more Tip In

The problem is anything I do to fix idle makes the car undrivable. If it idles on its own, any sudden gas pedal input kills it. Maybe I just don’t know how to properly smooth VE cells but yeah.

I’m tagging in Scott Laird to help as well. I didn’t want to because he’s busy and he’s been burned by people before but I’m desperate.

I wont lie, smoothing kills me too. Its hard not to oversmooth and end up changing all the nice changes you just did. its a fine line for sure.

Ill get flamed for this probably but this is what i KIND OF came up with after removing 20% fuel from your idle cells, and 15% at a few around it, smoothing out some big jumps that were in the table.

 

[Anfurnyy]

The problem is anything I do to fix idle makes the car undrivable. If it idles on its own, any sudden gas pedal input kills it. Maybe I just don’t know how to properly smooth VE cells but yeah.

I’m tagging in Scott Laird to help as well. I didn’t want to because he’s busy and he’s been burned by people before but I’m desperate.

also to add to this, like in your 2nd log
you stabbed it and it set off a TPS delta of 1, but the right after you stabbed it it went lean and WBFactor wanted to add 50% fuel.
If you look at the Blue circle, that's your VE in your table. Obviously you cant ad 50% fuel to there or you'd have a HUGE spike in your table. So what do you do? You add Base tip in the DA table to add the fuel for you while not messing up your VE table.

 

[CrackedDSM]

This is kind of 2 part question. Gradual fuel and not a stab probably means your VE needs some work. I see its about 20% rich at idle, and in some small throttle spots (that dont trigger tps delta its about 15% rich.
Now if you stab it like at the end of that first log and it triggers tpsdelta, and runs lean like it did i think youd need some more delta.

I wont lie, smoothing kills me too. Its hard not to oversmooth and end up changing all the nice changes you just did. its a fine line for sure.

Ill get flamed for this probably but this is what i KIND OF came up with after removing 20% fuel from your idle cells, and 15% at a few around it, smoothing out some big jumps that were in the table.
View attachment 746081

Send me that file! And I'll try it. The problem I was running into was if I leaned it out properly it would make the cells next to it lean. It's like the cells it uses to idle need to be in the 30-40's, but the cell right NEXT to it was the cell used for throttle input and it would have to be like mid 70's. I think I got close before I hit the reset button and went back to the maps Stapl3 told me to, but it still ran like crap.


I did try to give it a shit ton of TPSDelta input, but honestly that seemed to make it worse. I'm wondering if its something to do with my injectors at this point.

But regardless, send me that VE map and I'll try it! At this point if I can get it to idle on its own, and not die or bog when I hit the gas, I'll consider it a victory and paypal everyone enough for a beer.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Ill throw this out there too but when you were in closed loop, your front o2 sensor wasnt trimming

Send me that file! And I'll try it. The problem I was running into was if I leaned it out properly it would make the cells next to it lean. It's like the cells it uses to idle need to be in the 30-40's, but the cell right NEXT to it was the cell used for throttle input and it would have to be like mid 70's. I think I got close before I hit the reset button and went back to the maps Stapl3 told me to, but it still ran like crap.


I did try to give it a shit ton of TPSDelta input, but honestly that seemed to make it worse. I'm wondering if its something to do with my injectors at this point.

But regardless, send me that VE map and I'll try it! At this point if I can get it to idle on its own, and not die or bog when I hit the gas, I'll consider it a victory and paypal everyone enough for a beer.

I reset it already HOWEVER i can remake it and send it tomorrow. It wont be perfect but hopefully it should help. I think you've really just got too much fuel and too high of a VE in your idle and surrounding cells. There also a False lean condition that can happen too where too much unburned oxygen gets sent to the o2 and it seems like its lean but its just stupid rich.

 

[92Turbski]

Did you make sure you've got the the latest firmware?
I saw this whilst chasing down my own gremlins. Yikes.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Ill throw this out there too but when you were in closed loop, your front o2 sensor wasnt trimming

I reset it already HOWEVER i can remake it and send it tomorrow. It wont be perfect but hopefully it should help. I think you've really just got too much fuel and too high of a VE in your idle and surrounding cells. There also a False lean condition that can happen too where too much unburned oxygen gets sent to the o2 and it seems like its lean but its just stupid rich.

I honestly think what I'm going to do is probably just pull the wideband sensor, and put it in the OEM spot then just simulate narrowband with the LC2. Because it's been acting sus for awhile. Damn thing.

Did you make sure you've got the the latest firmware?
I saw this whilst chasing down my own gremlins. Yikes.

View attachment 746086

Appreciate ya' brotha. I made sure to update the firmware to the latest one when I first got this ECMLink package though thankfully. It was on an old revision.

 

[Anfurnyy]

I honestly think what I'm going to do is probably just pull the wideband sensor, and put it in the OEM spot then just simulate narrowband with the LC2. Because it's been acting sus for awhile. Damn thing.

I DID notice in one of your closed loop logs that your O2 sensor voltage wasn't fluctuating at all. It was stuck at like .88v or something

I don't know if that's just because it's rich or what. It's been so long since I've touched link, and it's so different than my LINKECU.

Fingers cross for you man! I think you're on the right track and you'll get it figured out

 

[CrackedDSM]

I DID notice in one of your closed loop logs that your O2 sensor voltage wasn't fluctuating at all. It was stuck at like .88v or something

I don't know if that's just because it's rich or what. It's been so long since I've touched link, and it's so different than my LINKECU.

Fingers cross for you man! I think you're on the right track and you'll get it figured out

I have to hope that eventually whatever this is, will be figured out. I feel like it's something stupid and small that's stopping me, but also something I have no clue about because this is all new to me. It runs so freakin' good on +275uSec of deadtime...it just is pig rich at idle. If I could get it to run good and idle good, it would be a dream to drive. It's just kicking my ass until then.


I will mention though when I went full retard on the VE map...I was actually able to get the AirflowPerRev down to like .28-.30. But any throttle input would just kill it. I have to believe it's possible though, it seems so close. I am still gonna compression test it too though, just for giggles and to rule something else out.

 

[Stapl3]

His AirflowPerRev is pretty high. He should try to remove the 20% he's rich from his idle cells, yeah?
I know that AirflowPerRev isnt super necessary but its nice to have good data for airflow?

I'm not against this, but I've found over the years the more you mess with the "stock" table, the weirder shit gets. Airflowperrev is just a sanity check. I wouldn't pull any hair out trying to obtain a number there.

Cracked, if you want to put your idle cells to the 40s from 55, go for it. Try as much stuff as you want I guess as it's all reversible and at this point if something works yet sticks out as ridiculous that would be an identification of the issue. I'd personally try out pulling deadtime first as that's so easy. I am glad you're sticking with SD despite the issues. It's so much better than a MAF.

Smoothing out the table is certainly something to do, but it's not going to fix the issue at hand. I can give you a smoothed out table if you want but nothing will change.


The firmware update from 7/4/23 was nothing but problems for me. YMMV.

 

[Stapl3]

Cracked, what is the situation physically with your throttle body? Is the plate cracked open VIA the throttle stop screw a full turn?

 

[CrackedDSM]

Cracked, what is the situation physically with your throttle body? Is the plate cracked open VIA the throttle stop screw a full turn?

I set it according to your instructions. I am 100% open to redoing it just as a sanity check though.


And nah I’m not giving up. I want to, but I want it to work on SD more. I also want to find the damn culprit so I can hopefully prevent someone else from struggling this much in the future.

It did seem to respond better when I checked ignore MAFComp but I didn’t have time to play with it.

I also do really think a lower VE idle cell but smooth transition to the richer numbers in the nearby cells would help too. When I’ve attempted this the “blurb” or bog got noticeably better. It was still there, but less extreme. I just didn’t have the time or know how to change it.


Gonna test and tune more this weekend though. I want to hear the damn BOV and know it runs on SD.

 

[Stapl3]

I guess if Airflowperrev is high, and lowering the cells in SD will bring that back to reality, do it. Just like afratioest or wbfactor, etc etc etc, it's a tool to use, and it's suggesting a change on the SD table. There's a few ways to go about everything, I wish I could sit with the car and a laptop for an hour or so. You'll get it sorted out and it'll be amazing, sometimes the journey sucks.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I guess if Airflowperrev is high, and lowering the cells in SD will bring that back to reality, do it. Just like afratioest or wbfactor, etc etc etc, it's a tool to use, and it's suggesting a change on the SD table. There's a few ways to go about everything, I wish I could sit with the car and a laptop for an hour or so. You'll get it sorted out and it'll be amazing, sometimes the journey sucks.

So just so I have a kind of list of things to do.

1) move the wideband and simulate NB to remove the sketchy front o2 from the equation.
2) Use deadtime to try to get this thing to idle better and match AFRest?
3) If that brings idle in line, but have issues with it bogging/going lean...adjust VE cells? This is where it gets fuzzy for me as to what to do if deadtime alone doesn't fix the issue.



And honestly...why wait? Take a vacation to Florida.

 

[Stapl3]

So just so I have a kind of list of things to do.

1) move the wideband and simulate NB to remove the sketchy front o2 from the equation.
2) Use deadtime to try to get this thing to idle better and match AFRest?
3) If that brings idle in line, but have issues with it bogging/going lean...adjust VE cells? This is where it gets fuzzy for me as to what to do if deadtime alone doesn't fix the issue.



And honestly...why wait? Take a vacation to Florida.

I agree with all.

I'll pass on traveling to FL right now .

 

[CrackedDSM]

I agree with all.

I'll pass on traveling to FL right now .

Hey we're in the safe spot. Just avoid anything past Panama City.

 

[90 TSI FWD]

I've been following your thread for a while now and decided to look into your logs. At first I thought you may be in the same problem I had when I first switched to SD. I had to add a ton of deadtime in the InjBatteryadj. But I see you've done that, and you have higher voltages than I do. I then started looking at all your logs to try and troubleshoot, but what caught my attention that I couldn't get past was that you switched to SD after you started having the lean problem (pg 53). And I'm thinking you're chasing your tail trying to fix an issue with SD when it's something else.

Switching to SD from the MAF really shouldn't be this difficult. If I was in your shoes, I'd go back to the MAF and start troubleshooting your lean problem. You'd at least have a drivable car again. I personally think it's a wire and/or sensor screwing with you. Hell, maybe even a fuel filter or injector. I am quite invested now though and looking forward to you solving this puzzle.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I've been following your thread for a while now and decided to look into your logs. At first I thought you may be in the same problem I had when I first switched to SD. I had to add a ton of deadtime in the InjBatteryadj. But I see you've done that, and you have higher voltages than I do. I then started looking at all your logs to try and troubleshoot, but what caught my attention that I couldn't get past was that you switched to SD after you started having the lean problem (pg 53). And I'm thinking you're chasing your tail trying to fix an issue with SD when it's something else.

Switching to SD from the MAF really shouldn't be this difficult. If I was in your shoes, I'd go back to the MAF and start troubleshooting your lean problem. You'd at least have a drivable car again. I personally think it's a wire and/or sensor screwing with you. Hell, maybe even a fuel filter or injector. I am quite invested now though and looking forward to you solving this puzzle.

Funny you say this, I've come back to this line of thought myself. I remember clearly having the irritating lean spike at 1800-2800rpms, but it was never enough to kill the engine. And idle was also pretty good AFR wise. The Fuel Filter is new, but the injectors I am unsure of. They sat for 10+ years and were used on top of that I think. You make a convincing argument about the MAF thing, but problem is the MAF I have is bad and was starting to screw with my Idle AFRs and such. I'd have to buy a new MAF and reinstall the intake pipe and huge PITA recirc tube.


If I can't get this problem licked, I may just have to do that though sadly.


I do wonder if I need to hard reset the ECU or if there is a way to reload the maps. Maybe a file got corrupted or something.


Either way, there has to be a problem. Like you said, it shouldn't be this hard to setup. I just don't know how to find that problem without throwing parts at it(which I don't want to do). Gonna try Stapl3's advice and try to mess with the tune more but yeah. I need to start rechecking mechanical parts too, just don't know where to start other than what I've done already (BLT, checking exhaust leaks, etc).