Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

[CrackedDSM]

I hate this f*cking car.


It decided today after changing nothing that it’s gonna run two full points leaner at idle which is still in open loop. I had to add like 25-35uSec of deadtime to get it back to normal and it still has this idiotic lean spot at like 2500-2800rpm that will not respond to commands either in mafcomp or fueling slider tab.

I swear I’m about to source an old ostrich 2.0 and just switch to jackal which was idiot proof. I’m not sure why my specific copy of ECMLink or this specific car itself has to be such a pain in the ass and not respond to tune. Are the injectors or my fuel pump dying? Even locking it in full time open loop it does the same shit.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Here's a log. Please help me figure this shit out. In the logs pay attention to 2500-3100rpm. The wideband goes almost 17:1 then drops back down. This is not with a sudden snap increase in throttle either, it's repeatable in this RPM range.

You'll also see in the log where first startup it goes 16 AFR, then slowly comes down as I add deadtime.

 

[Justin DuBois]

I see your narrow band 02 wake up and start oscillating before you start moving, but at first it is a bit weak.

This is where the closed loop fuel trims help, and locking to open loop isn't strictly necessary. I adjust my dead times monitoring Combined FT. As long as the trims are below 10%+- the ECU is happy. I try to get that closer to 2% +-

I wanted to ask - did you get your global fuel set using a rolling 3rd gear pull? As you are on MAF, you are looking for 0% wideband factor between 4500-5500 RPM at full boost.

 

[Stapl3]

Wideband flakes out too. You have o2 sensor issues.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I see your narrow band 02 wake up and start oscillating before you start moving, but at first it is a bit weak.
View attachment 745691
This is where the closed loop fuel trims help, and locking to open loop isn't strictly necessary. I adjust my dead times monitoring Combined FT. As long as the trims are below 10%+- the ECU is happy. I try to get that closer to 2% +-

I wanted to ask - did you get your global fuel set using a rolling 3rd gear pull? As you are on MAF, you are looking for 0% wideband factor between 4500-5500 RPM at full boost.

Wideband flakes out too. You have o2 sensor issues.

Both the wideband and the narrowband are brand new. Should I check grounds or something in the wiring? I double checked the exhaust and have no leaks.

 

[Stapl3]

Both the wideband and the narrowband are brand new. Should I check grounds or something in the wiring? I double checked the exhaust and have no leaks.

In your log above, the wideband falls off the table for no reason and gets stoned at 7.3 for half a minute. Something is up with it. All I can offer is to make sure it is wired correctly, the ground is in the right spot, and most importantly open air calibrate the sensor. Follow the instructions doing this exactly word for word to a T.

Your front o2 also does basically nothing the first minute of the log, suggesting something is questionable there.

IATs into the 130s may be a factor, I'm not sure.

 

[CrackedDSM]

In your log above, the wideband falls off the table for no reason and gets stoned at 7.3 for half a minute. Something is up with it. All I can offer is to make sure it is wired correctly, the ground is in the right spot, and most importantly open air calibrate the sensor. Follow the instructions doing this exactly word for word to a T.

Your front o2 also does basically nothing the first minute of the log, suggesting something is questionable there.

IATs into the 130s may be a factor, I'm not sure.

Shit. I’m so sorry. I killed the ignition to see if enabling hot start enrichment would help before I messed with deadtimes. It goes 7.4 because I killed the engine for a few seconds and the wideband takes a million years to warm back up when I restart the engine.


I wonder honestly if the MAF is almost on the cusp of dying. It is very old. Tempted to swap over to SD and see what happens.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Please help me figure this shit out. In the logs pay attention to 2500-3100rpm. The wideband goes almost 17:1 then drops back down. This is not with a sudden snap increase in throttle either, it's repeatable in this RPM range.

Are you still in the FIC 1000s?
With my 2150s when I was still on link I also had some goofy lean spikes. I never actually figured them out but I wasn't on link for all that long.
A lot of people in the forums thought it had to do with oscillations in the fuel rail due to big injectors opening and closing.
And as ironically as it might seem, a super rich condition CAN cause a lean spikes due to unburned air/fuel mixture too. It might be worth pulling some fuel there and see if that alleviates the issue?

 

[CrackedDSM]

Are you still in the FIC 1000s?
With my 2150s when I was still on link I also had some goofy lean spikes. I never actually figured them out but I wasn't on link for all that long.
A lot of people in the forums thought it had to do with oscillations in the fuel rail due to big injectors opening and closing.
And as ironically as it might seem, a super rich condition CAN cause a lean spikes due to unburned air/fuel mixture too. It might be worth pulling some fuel there and see if that alleviates the issue?

FIC1050’s, yessir. That makes sense. I was just watching engine masters the other day when they showed that. Blew my mind.

“oxygen sensors don’t detect fuel, they detect oxygen”. Good stuff.

 

[Christo]

Hey man, I have a good 3G #482 MAF if you want to try it out and see if it helps.

 

[CrackedDSM]

SD swap in progress, boys. I’m committing 100%. I also found a couple boost leaks. The BOV c-clip that holds it in loosened because of the tube connecting it to the intake pipe, so that was absolutely a leak. I fixed that and now there’s no tube to rattle it loose.

I also hooked up the stock PCV system and got a better hose. We’ll see how this goes. Wish us luck boiz.

Hey man, I have a good 3G #482 MAF if you want to try it out and see if it helps.

I absolutely will keep you in mind! May take it off your hands.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Alright, start up on SD and attempt at idle is below. This thing runs like complete SHIT on SD and it is f*cking infuriating, but I'm gonna try to remain patient because rome wasn't built in a day.


It is rich as absolute f*ck at idle, and still won't respond to VE adjusts even as low as like 40%. I have to use global and pull global down to -75%, then it idles perfect. AFRest and Wideband both match perfectly. But I shouldn't have to pull 75% out just for it to idle. So I zeroed absolutely everything out, left the settings the same as the MAF tune, and I'm posting the attempt at idle below. The spikes in Throttle Position/TPS are me having to keep the car alive. If my foot isn't on the gas, it dies due to being so rich.

Please help me guys. I'd like to get the car at least idling great before I have to go back to work on Friday.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Alright, start up on SD and attempt at idle is below. This thing runs like complete SHIT on SD and it is f*cking infuriating, but I'm gonna try to remain patient because rome wasn't built in a day.


It is rich as absolute f*ck at idle, and still won't respond to VE adjusts even as low as like 40%. I have to use global and pull global down to -75%, then it idles perfect. AFRest and Wideband both match perfectly. But I shouldn't have to pull 75% out just for it to idle. So I zeroed absolutely everything out, left the settings the same as the MAF tune, and I'm posting the attempt at idle below. The spikes in Throttle Position/TPS are me having to keep the car alive. If my foot isn't on the gas, it dies due to being so rich.

Please help me guys. I'd like to get the car at least idling great before I have to go back to work on Friday.

can you post your tune file?
**edit** nvm i see it

 

[Anfurnyy]

I dont know for sure but your minimum pulse width is set to 840microseconds.

Your base fuel pressure is set at 37 psi in the calculation? I dont know what your base pressure is but is it not 43.5 psi?
with 43.5 it brings the gobal deadtime down to -60.2%

 

[CrackedDSM]

I dont know for sure but your minimum pulse width is set to 840microseconds.

View attachment 745885

Your base fuel pressure is set at 37 psi in the calculation? I dont know what your base pressure is but is it not 43.5 psi?
with 43.5 it brings the gobal deadtime down to -60.2%

I haven't touched the minimum pulsewidth. That's interesting. What should it be set at/what should I set it to?


Fuel Pressure is at 41 PSI. That's what the global liked to match the AFRest/Wideband at 5000-5500rpms.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Got it to idle on its own without dying. Finally. This is all I wanted to accomplish today. I'm posting up a log to show you the drastic changes I had to make to the VE map to get it to idle within the AFR range I want. It idles like absolute ass, but it doesn't die and the AFR is close to my targets.

Soon as you touch the pedal though, all bets are off. It pegs max lean and dies/bogs. If you gently increase pedal pressure it will allow you to grudgingly rev it up, but is super lean. Just for giggles after this log, I made the cells all around the idle cells rich as hell with no smoothing and it seemed to help. It bogged less, but still would try to die if you went WOT. I did not make a log of this because I immediately reset the table back to how it was. One step at a time.


Here is the log. Pick apart the VE table at your leisure and feel free to post up a settings file with the recommended VE. Right now the car is absolutely undriveable. I'm assuming my settings are absolutely screwed, but I await patiently for advice and corrections.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Got it to idle on its own without dying. Finally. This is all I wanted to accomplish today. I'm posting up a log to show you the drastic changes I had to make to the VE map to get it to idle within the AFR range I want. It idles like absolute ass, but it doesn't die and the AFR is close to my targets.

Soon as you touch the pedal though, all bets are off. It pegs max lean and dies/bogs. If you gently increase pedal pressure it will allow you to grudgingly rev it up, but is super lean. Just for giggles after this log, I made the cells all around the idle cells rich as hell with no smoothing and it seemed to help. It bogged less, but still would try to die if you went WOT. I did not make a log of this because I immediately reset the table back to how it was. One step at a time.


Here is the log. Pick apart the VE table at your leisure and feel free to post up a settings file with the recommended VE. Right now the car is absolutely undriveable. I'm assuming my settings are absolutely screwed, but I await patiently for advice and corrections.

So, ill try and offer some help but im far from a tuner. Ill try to point out things that i see that *seem* odd but hopefully someone more experienced than me can verify or chime in or just tell me to shut up.

Im not seeing any sort of throttle change at all in that 2nd log. TPS voltage reads .61v constant, idle switch never changes either. Not sure if you tried the throttle thing or not in this log but theres zero throttle input.

It seems that its locked in open loop Car wont try to make corrections because of this. Its enabled under "misc" settings, id turn it off and Id also check the "disable airflow smoothing on SD" box in there as well.

IMO your fuel settings seem alright but theres also a possiblity that something didnt get turned off fully after switching to SD

Use global fuel to get your VE at or as close to 100 as possible in that 5500-6000 like you said (global is really just a guideline)in 3rd, and once thats met then use injector deadtime to adjust your idle cells until they hit your idle target AFR as long as your idle VE numbers are reasonable (something like 40-50 IIRC)

 

[CrackedDSM]

So, ill try and offer some help but im far from a tuner. Ill try to point out things that i see that *seem* odd but hopefully someone more experienced than me can verify or chime in or just tell me to shut up.

Im not seeing any sort of throttle change at all in that 2nd log. TPS voltage reads .61v constant, idle switch never changes either. Not sure if you tried the throttle thing or not in this log but theres zero throttle input.

It seems that its locked in open loop Car wont try to make corrections because of this. Its enabled under "misc" settings, id turn it off and Id also check the "disable airflow smoothing on SD" box in there as well.

IMO your fuel settings seem alright but theres also a possiblity that something didnt get turned off fully after switching to SD

Use global fuel to get your VE at or as close to 100 as possible in that 5500-6000 like you said (global is really just a guideline)in 3rd, and once thats met then use injector deadtime to adjust your idle cells until they hit your idle target AFR as long as your idle VE numbers are reasonable (something like 40-50 IIRC)

I didn't touch the throttle because I wanted to get it to idle on its own without input from the throttle. Before this log, I had to feather the gas to keep it idling. Also: I have my idle switch simulated so IdleSwPin is gonna be 0. I log IdleSw instead which shows it working.

Stapl3 mentioned as well as a few others to lock the car in open loop to dial in a few settings instead of having to deal with closedloop and fuel trims and stuff. Then when it's close, re-enable closed loop.

I'll attach a log here of the most recent change, but what I did was go back to the old global and deadtime settings I had initially and keep the VE map untouched. With these changes, the car revs and responds amazing. It just refuses to idle. I'm reading everything I can right now which is essentially telling me to start tuning backwards. Tune 1) WOT 2) Cruise 3) Idle, in apparently that order. I'm also reading that it takes people forever to fully dial in and tune their SD with Idle being the absolute worst of them all.


So I guess honestly I'll just settle in and maybe try to drive the car tomorrow and see what happens.

Log for anyone interested. It's extremely short but its where I am at now. I made the decision that making it drivable first was more important than making it idle first.

 

[Anfurnyy]

I'm reading everything I can right now which is essentially telling me to start tuning backwards. Tune 1) WOT 2) Cruise 3) Idle, in apparently that order. I'm also reading that it takes people forever to fully dial in and tune their SD with Idle being the absolute worst of them all.

This is right. Doing the WOT dials in your global, and then you use your dead time and VE to get your Idle where you need it.

Stapl3 mentioned as well as a few others to lock the car in open loop to dial in a few settings instead of having to deal with closedloop and fuel trims and stuff. Then when it's close, re-enable closed loop.

I can see how that works.
For ME it always has seemed easier to let the car make the changes and at least it's somewhat drivable then go back through the log and make the changes to the VE based off what the fuel trims/wb factor want.

Your WBFactor in that lastest log is pulling 23% fuel.

 

[92Turbski]

Use the deadtime to get the combined FT to as close as you can to 0 at full warmed up idle. Your deadtime setting seems crazy off. Mines at 40 milliseconds, for contrast.
Use Kevin's checklist at sixsigmatuning.com to make sure it's squared away. There's another super helpful SD tuning/ install tutorial, lemme have a look for it again.

 

[92Turbski]

Use the deadtime to get the combined FT to as close as you can to 0 at full warmed up idle. Your deadtime setting seems crazy off. Mines at 40 milliseconds, for contrast.
Use Kevin's checklist at sixsigmatuning.com to make sure it's squared away. There's another super helpful SD tuning/ install tutorial, lemme have a look for it again.

Here's the link;
Thread 'How to Tune a 1G ECMLink V3 using Speed Density' https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-tune-a-1g-ecmlink-v3-using-speed-density.395564/

 

[92AWDHX40]

That's the one Arron posted years ago its how I got my other dsms working on sd.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Honestly, this car can’t be tuned on speed density.

Now it’s randomly making BOTH map sensors(I have a spare) read -3.0 with the engine off. And nothing I do to anything fixes anything. Make adjustments to VE? Idle is okay but if you touch the gas pedal? Dead. Get it to rev up? Wont idle for shit.


I’m so done with fighting this car. Everyone’s telling me I’m doing something wrong or something is wrong and I’ve checked everything and found nothing.


This car hasn’t even driven 200 miles man. Why is it so easy for everyone else to have speed density set up but it’s got to be impossible for me? It’s like everything with this car is 10x more difficult than it needs to be.

 

[b00zt3d spyd3r]

Honestly, this car can’t be tuned on speed density.

Now it’s randomly making BOTH map sensors(I have a spare) read -3.0 with the engine off. And nothing I do to anything fixes anything. Make adjustments to VE? Idle is okay but if you touch the gas pedal? Dead. Get it to rev up? Wont idle for shit.


I’m so done with fighting this car. Everyone’s telling me I’m doing something wrong or something is wrong and I’ve checked everything and found nothing.


This car hasn’t even driven 200 miles man. Why is it so easy for everyone else to have speed density set up but it’s got to be impossible for me? It’s like everything with this car is 10x more difficult than it needs to be.

It can be done bro. I had a hard time getting mine dialed in due to exhaust leak between front o2 and wb in rear o2 spot. Sealed that and was able to move forward. Front o2 was reading rich af but wb reading lean af and was throwing everything off when i made adjustments. I was understanding wrong too and trying to do idle then cruise then wot tune but it's actually better to do it opposite. It gets globals in line, then after getting wot logs dialed in proceed to cruise and idle. If your wideband factor is saying -20% (example) at wot, take that percentage from your global till the wideband matches afrest. (Assuming you have no exhaust leaks and it's reading correctly). From there you'd dial in cruise and idle on the ve table. I'm not pro but this is what worked for me. I'm not done but it's moving along nicely.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Honestly, this car can’t be tuned on speed density.

Now it’s randomly making BOTH map sensors(I have a spare) read -3.0 with the engine off. And nothing I do to anything fixes anything. Make adjustments to VE? Idle is okay but if you touch the gas pedal? Dead. Get it to rev up? Wont idle for shit.


I’m so done with fighting this car. Everyone’s telling me I’m doing something wrong or something is wrong and I’ve checked everything and found nothing.


This car hasn’t even driven 200 miles man. Why is it so easy for everyone else to have speed density set up but it’s got to be impossible for me? It’s like everything with this car is 10x more difficult than it needs to be.

Sorry you're having problems man. I know the feeling but just put your head down and truck on and you'll get it figured out.
I'm not sure what's going on with those MAP sensors though. Definitely weird. If it's doing it to both it's likely something else, although it's not impossible for both to have gone bad.

did you Reset the Direct Access tables? Take a picture of your injector deadtimes before hand so you can plug them in easier afterwards. Maybe even copy your timing table and AFR target table to an excel sheet so you can copy them back.

1: turn on closed loop. Let the car make the changes for you and manually update them later. This way at the very least the car will try to do what it needs to fuel wise to keep it running. Much less frustrating.
2: set your idle cells VE to 50 and blend into map.
3: zero you your global deadtime (figure this out for idle later on)
4: leave your global fuel where its at for now. this will likely change later on during 3rd gear stuff.

Try to start car.
The car SHOULD idle with the default DA values, minus the injector settings.

If the car idles but AFR is off, adjust global deadtime, ** NOT GLOBAL FUEL **(you'll most likely have to add fuel) until fuel trims are as close to 0 as possible. Small increments like 10usecs