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98 TSi awd - Autocross Build

Year
1998
Model/Trim
Eagle Talon TSi AWD

2gmitsueclipse

DSM Wiseman
2,365
703
Jul 13, 2005
Auburn Hills, Michigan
Congrats on your success this past year in competition! I too, struggled with making decisions about what vehicles to use. I ended up retiring the 2g this year from RallyCross, completing much of the season in our Evo. While the Evo is extremely fun to drive, I feel ready for more of a challenge. My fiance is showing an interest in competing, so we have been building our 2018 car together. Unfortunately, not a "DSM", but will be powered by a 4g63T. Much luck this coming season!
 

2gmitsueclipse

DSM Wiseman
2,365
703
Jul 13, 2005
Auburn Hills, Michigan
Congrats on your success this past year in competition! I too, struggled with making decisions about what vehicles to use. I ended up retiring the 2g this year from RallyCross, completing much of the season in our Evo. While the Evo is extremely fun to drive, I feel ready for more of a challenge. My fiance is showing an interest in competing, so we have been building our 2018 car together. This one will be built with national competition in mind. Unfortunately, not a "DSM", but will be powered by a 4g63T. Much luck this coming season!
 

Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
Congrats on your success this past year in competition! I too, struggled with making decisions about what vehicles to use. I ended up retiring the 2g this year from RallyCross, completing much of the season in our Evo. While the Evo is extremely fun to drive, I feel ready for more of a challenge. My fiance is showing an interest in competing, so we have been building our 2018 car together. Unfortunately, not a "DSM", but will be powered by a 4g63T. Much luck this coming season!

Thank you, sir! Sorry to hear about you retiring the DSM. I know you had some great success with it.

I drove a few cars this year and had a blast. Something RWD is for sure in my future, but for now, my loyalty and hopes of winning a national championship still sit with my Talon.
 

2gmitsueclipse

DSM Wiseman
2,365
703
Jul 13, 2005
Auburn Hills, Michigan
Thank you, sir! Sorry to hear about you retiring the DSM. I know you had some great success with it.

I drove a few cars this year and had a blast. Something RWD is for sure in my future, but for now, my loyalty and hopes of winning a national championship still sit with my Talon.

The 2g platform just isn't going to take me much further without significant modification to increase suspension travel. I would prefer to preserve the car, than make permanent changes. Our current build, however, I do not have the same reservations for. I look forward to driving it without the worry of driving it back home. SCCA is also working to host more national events, which is really exciting.

RWD certainly presents a fun challenge *cough Miata *cough.
 

JoshMc

Proven Member
93
16
Nov 18, 2015
Kansas City, Missouri
I think we are a little past due fro an update my friend!! been such a fun build to follow and read through, I've gathered so much info from this!! hopefully your still racing in 2019 this year! looking forward to an update!
 

Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
I think we are a little past due fro an update my friend!! been such a fun build to follow and read through, I've gathered so much info from this!! hopefully your still racing in 2019 this year! looking forward to an update!


I'm happy to report that, I'm baaaackkkkk. I had a very successful campaign with my Evo during the 2018 season. (1st place Finger Lakes Champ Tour & 3rd place at the SCCA Solo Nationals as well as very good results on a local level.) However, I sold that car a few days ago and will be gung ho into rebuilding the Talon to compete in SCCA autocross DSP class. Look for some updates coming real soon.
 
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96dsmftw

Supporting Member
236
111
Jun 23, 2011
Richmond, Kentucky
Glad you are back. I'm really interested in what full DSP atire looks like. Its good to hear you had so much success with the Evo. I didn't go to Nationals but it sounds like I picked a good year to miss. I heard stories of the wakes of cars pushing cones out of the box because there was so much water/rain.
 

Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
Glad you are back. I'm really interested in what full DSP atire looks like. Its good to hear you had so much success with the Evo. I didn't go to Nationals but it sounds like I picked a good year to miss. I heard stories of the wakes of cars pushing cones out of the box because there was so much water/rain.

Day 1 of competition (Tuesday) was not fun at all. I ran in 4th heat. It had just stopped raining, but there were still pools and rivers flowing across the course. Between the weather and my own nervousness, I finished 8th out of 39 on Tuesday. Wednesday was totally dry, but no sun, and slightly humid. I was able to string together the fastest time of day and finished out the event in 3rd. My goal was to finish in a trophy position, but went home absolutely ecstatic.

Last year was certainly an asterisk year between the weather and some classes having to run in the dark. Wasn't a good year to be there, but being my first time ever, it was still pretty fun.
 

Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
A little slow in updating this thread, but better late than never!

Talon is back in the garage, in its rightful spot and the rebuild begins. First and foremost, I wanted to figure out what was the cause of my timing belt failing. As I tore the motor apart, what do I find?... the balance shaft belt sitting behind the timing covers. No, not in its usual place, but hanging out in the space where the actual timing belt should be. The picture should explain the rest of what happened. :ohdamn:

Continued to take the head off and inspect... Every single valve has made contact with the pistons and bent. Even a few rocker arms had popped out of their places. NOT GOOD. I guess its time to fully rebuild the head completely. Also, all four pistons had a few gouges in them. Personally, I've never seen every single valve bend. Either 1 or 2 of the cylinders, but not all four. I guess it wanted to go out with a bang.
 

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Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
Outside of just rebuilding half the motor, I'll be making a few setup changes to the car. Currently, I've repainted the shock tower that I had issues with the year before. I guess I did not clean up the battery acid well enough and surface rust started forming everywhere. Sprayed another baking soda/water mixture all over and let it soak in for a few days to neutralize the acid. I decided to use a primer coating this time around, as I did not before, in hopes of encapsulating the metal and help prevent any future rust. Also sandblasted and coated the intake manifold, the water pipes, and a few other odds and ends that needed refreshing.

One of the setup changes will including switching back to a side mount intercooler. I picked up a Hahn over sized intercooler on tuners which should work well. I love my Greddy unit and it seems to be working well, but the pipes and core size are a bit too much for the T25. The SMIC will decrease back pressure in the system which should increase throttle response and let the little turbo hold a few more PSI to redline. Currently, it falls to 8.7psi by 7800rpm. I vaguely remember my old 2G holding 11psi at redline when it was stock. Converting to Speed Denisty should also help with this. Not expecing to gain too much power, but increase under the curve will surely be appreciated. In lieu of swapping to a smaller intercooler core, I'll start utilizing racegas and then E85 in the 2020 season.

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Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
How the pistons and deck currently look. Angle grinder, some stone bits, and a steady hand make quick work of the gouges.

Prior to taking the motor apart, I did test the oil pump to make sure all was well there. Threaded in an oil pressure gauge to the OFH and spun the pump with my drill. The gauge showed 20psi relatively quickly. I did not bother to remove the pan or anything else. Hopefully the rest of the shortblock is fine.

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Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
6/9/2019

Current status on the motor... New water pump and water pipe are back on. All timing hardware are bolted to the block and the balance shaft belt is set. I would have put the head on today, but www.ssstuds.com has screwed me over on a set of exhaust manifold studs. I ordered them back on 5/26/19 and have not received anything nor any communication from them. I filed a paypal dispute this past Friday and if I don't hear anything by 3pm tomorrow, I'll be ordering another set from Extremepsi and pray I get my money back.

The fuel filter on the car was more than likely the original so it was replaced and the coolant housings were sandblasted and coated. I don't know why I put myself through the hassle of doing this. I know I'm going to scratch the crap out of them at some point while working on the car, but at least the motor will look clean and tidy for now. ROFL The new fuel filter will be coupled with the extremepsi banjoless fuel fitting line. The rest of the system will stay stock for now, but it was a no brainer and cheap to do this "mod". I also picked up a set of high performance replacement coolant hoses for the entire motor. The ones on the motor now are more than likely the originals and would not last one session on the track. (I plan on doing some HPDE track days at some point in the near future.)

That's it for now. Goal for the coming week is to have the head and turbo buttoned up by Thursday. I'll be running at the NEPA Pocono Divisional next weekend so I need to try and squeeze in as much wrench time as possible beforehand.


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Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
Why not upgrade to kevlar belts to help prevent breakage again, they take more heat, stress and resist stretching, just an idea to help support the engine more

Because I don't think they are necessary. Stock belts are plenty strong and are made with Kevlar too.

From now on, I will include replacing the timing belt and accessories every 2 seasons, regardless of mileage.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,122
2,354
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Because I don't think they are necessary. Stock belts are plenty strong and are made with Kevlar too.

From now on, I will include replacing the timing belt and accessories every 2 seasons, regardless of mileage.
Only the evo 9 belts have kevlar in btw, the rest do not. While they are stong thereis not avoiding thr fact in rscing it stresses belts alot more hence the additional strength and support is needed or required. Its just a small piece of mind kinda thing
 

Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
Only the evo 9 belts have kevlar in btw, the rest do not. While they are stong thereis not avoiding thr fact in rscing it stresses belts alot more hence the additional strength and support is needed or required. Its just a small piece of mind kinda thing

Yes, Evo 9 is OEM and works on all 4g63. Again, I feel like this is just a gimmick really. The bearings in the pullies will give you more trouble than the belt itself. Having a 2 year maintenance interval is plenty. Hell, I'm not even using an OEM belt. I'm using Gates.

The old balance shaft tensioner pulley started to fail which started this whole fiasco that I'm in. Otherwise, the Continental belt that was on the car was also fine. (How the car came when I bought it.)
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,122
2,354
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Yes, Evo 9 is OEM and works on all 4g63. Again, I feel like this is just a gimmick really. The bearings in the pullies will give you more trouble than the belt itself. Having a 2 year maintenance interval is plenty. Hell, I'm not even using an OEM belt. I'm using Gates.

The old balance shaft tensioner pulley started to fail which started this whole fiasco that I'm in. Otherwise, the Continental belt that was on the car was also fine. (How the car came when I bought it.)
I wouod not go as far as say its a gimmick if mitsu did it to the evo 9 belts, they do things for good reason, at the end of the day its just added peace of mind its stronger and has better strength and heat properties, yes they will still break but not often compared to a normal NMBR belt. Whats another $100 for a better belt vs 2k for a nee engine rebuild! Its cheap to do and you wont need every 2 years, many people race for many more years on the same kevlar belt they installed
 

turbosax2

Moderator
4,391
364
Nov 19, 2006
Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
(I plan on doing some HPDE track days at some point in the near future.)

:applause: You'll definitely be hooked when you try it! Maybe we'll end up at the same HPDE sometime; that would be fun to be out there with more DSM's.
 

Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
I wouod not go as far as say its a gimmick if mitsu did it to the evo 9 belts, they do things for good reason, at the end of the day its just added peace of mind its stronger and has better strength and heat properties, yes they will still break but not often compared to a normal NMBR belt. Whats another $100 for a better belt vs 2k for a nee engine rebuild! Its cheap to do and you wont need every 2 years, many people race for many more years on the same kevlar belt they installed

My stock engine, making minimal power with stock cams and valve-train should be OK for now.


:applause: You'll definitely be hooked when you try it! Maybe we'll end up at the same HPDE sometime; that would be fun to be out there with more DSM's.

I ran my first last year and I'm totally addicted. Something about winning a Solo championship is stuck in my head, but I have every intention of getting to a track as soon as possible. Running alongside you would be great!
 

GRNDSM

Moderator
2,386
108
May 16, 2002
Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Can you ditch the balance shafts? I always resented SCCA rules which made us keep those belts for certain classes! :(

Balance shafts spin twice the speed of the engine, so they can see up to 19000 rpm! So they are a liability to seize at any time.

Even brand new, kavlar belt will fail if this happen!
 

Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
Can you ditch the balance shafts? I always resented SCCA rules which made us keep those belts for certain classes! :(

Balance shafts spin twice the speed of the engine, so they can see up to 19000 rpm! So they are a liability to seize at any time.

Even brand new, kavlar belt will fail if this happen!

Unfortunately, you can't remove the balance shafts until SM and up classes. SP requires a stock, untouched motor. :cry:
 

Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
Got the head mounted and torqued down as well the valvetrain. I inspected each rocker arm, as a few popped out of place when the head blew, and ended up reusing as I could not find any issues. My old cam gears had developed some surface rust while sitting so I bought a set off of FB, one being brand new.

Also mounted the new-to-me Hahn Racecraft sidemount intercooler and piping. My old deka battery shit the bed so found this https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Max-B...r+600+battery&qid=1561476824&s=gateway&sr=8-1 to replace it with. Its 5lbs lighter and has slightly less CCA, but I think it will be just fine. Wiring harness is also back together. I installed an upgraded wastegate actuator at some point and unfortunately had to reinstall the original. As I mentioned before, the class I run in allows no modifications to the motor.... or turbo assembly. Booooooo....

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The rest of the cooling system went back together and filled with 1 gallon of Prestone 50/50 and another gallon of distilled water. This first fill will be temporary as I'll flush the system after the first few heat cycles.

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I'm loving these new radiator hoses. They feel very tough and look good. Every little hose has been replaced including the heater hoses and throttle body. Hoping for no future issues while on the track.

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Next step will be to install the remaining timing belt components and then get this motor started. Fingers crossed!
 

Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
A bit off topic, but there were "track cross" events at Pocono raceway the last two weekends. Was able to drive some fun cars so thought I would share.

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Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,615
400
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
Timing belt and components are on the motor now. I got the alternator and water pump pullies back on as well, but not the AC or the rest of the side covers just yet. I'd like to get the motor started first with everything exposed so I can keep an eye out for any issues with the belts (why i'm in this mess) or for any leaks. First issue I came across.... I lost my damn V3 cable, therefore I can't invert the CAS signal. I'll place an order with JNZ and hopefully get the replacement in shortly. :ohdamn: :cry:

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Moving onto the intercooler... As I mentioned earlier, I swapped over to a Hahn Racecraft sidemount. Looks like a well built unit. Also, and something I don't think many DSMer's did in the past, I added a small 7 inch pusher fan. (although very common in the autocross world) I would have preferred to mount this as a puller, but it did not fit with the splash guards in place. With the relatively low speed in autocross and the side mount placement, its very easy to heat soak the core. Once I get my AIT sensor mounted, I'll do some testing to see how effective, if any, the fan is.
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