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2G 4g63 mechanical timing off?

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ttravis88t

Proven Member
107
13
Jul 25, 2021
Jacksonville, Florida
Is my timing off here? This socket is exactly at the top of its rotation so this is the top of the piston stroke for the cylinder all the way on the right closest to the cam gears. But as you can see the lines don’t match up. The car ran fine before this I was just checking up on it before I begin tuning. Maybe I’m wrong and this isn’t cylinder #1?

If it was off this much it for sure wouldn’t have ran so idk😂

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Look like it might be several teeth off actually.

I don’t see how though.

I’ve had a car skip a tooth and I know what the symptoms are. This car shows none, also if it were more than like one tooth off I don’t think the car would even run LOL.

It may be possible previous owner didn’t install something correctly like the cam gears he didn’t line up or something relative to the cams actual position. If that’s even possible. The car has 272 duration cams would that possibly affect anything?
 
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Double check that Mark. That far off it would be obvious if piston isn't at the top. If the #1 piston is at TDC then you know you have a problem with the
Double check that Mark. That far off it would be obvious if piston isn't at the top. If the #1 piston is at TDC then you know you have a problem with the plate.
Are these plates known to get unaligned or something?
 
No. More along the lines that somebody installed it wrong. Seems weird that this engine runs at all but given what you said rule the easy stuff out.
The plates can be flipped over and installed on the wrong side, also maybe your cam gears are not from a Dsm? the Evo uses similar gears.
Perhaps. Maybe I could take the valve cover off so I can see the cams physically. I just find it really hard to believe this car is out of time. I have a 04 v6 galant that jumped timing a few months ago and that thing could barely idle and it would misfire and back fire like crazy if you tried to drive it. And that was ONE tooth. I get that it’s a completely different car but the same concept should apply. I got literally all day tomorrow to troubleshoot so I’ll see what I can do
 
Judging only by the video, the crank plate doesn't look flipped. And BC cam gear is for both the early 4g63 and late 4g63 by changing dowel pin hole position, and the OP seems using the correct dowel pin hole for DSM. It looks like he has the valve timing retarded by 2 teeth.
 
Things are not correct. If it was me I would remove the timing belt & start over.

First thing I would do before releasing the tension on the belt is re-insert the grenade pin back into the hydraulic tensioner. If you have the belt tensioned correctly it should just slide back in.

Remove the Timing Belt & line up all the marks on the crank, oil pump, & cams. Now reinstall the timing belt. I like to start with the exhaust cam & progress around the intake cam, past the idler pulley to the oil pump, and to the crank. I leave the tensioner pulley off and pull all the slack out. If all the marks still line up you will have the mechanical timing correct. Install the hydraulic tensioner & then the tensioner pulley. There should be enough slack in the timing belt to thread the tensioner pulley bolt. Then tension the timing belt, rotate the crank 6 full revolutions, wait 15 minutes and recheck the timing belt tension. I actually do the tension check twice and will wait longer than 15 minutes because this allows more time for things to settle.

Stop worrying about TDC and all. If the crank is on it's mark it is at TDC. If it's not at TDC than the crank trigger plate is wrong like upside down. If the cam dowel pins are at 12 o'clock then the cams are correct for Cylinder #1 firing order and you line up both cam gear marks.

If you still have the balance shafts, before putting the timing belt on put the oil pump alignment mark at 12 o'clock & if the pulley rotates counter-clockwise the phase is correct, if it rotates clockwise it 180° out & you need to rotate it a full turn.
 
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This is TDC. cam gears are off obviously. I’m scared to change it though because I know it runs fine right now I don’t wanna make these like up and then it somehow be the wrong move and mess everything up

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How do we know it's TDC? Show us the crank mark also and please don't zoom in super tight so we can see the whole area. You might take another pic of crank with cams aligned also. Last one you couldn't see what's what.
 
How do we know it's TDC? Show us the crank mark also and please don't zoom in super tight so we can see the whole area. You might take another pic of crank with cams aligned also. Last one you couldn't see what's what.
Here’s a better video. Crank lines up to TDC and here’s where the cams are. I know they are 272 duration adjustable cams I’m not sure if that has anything to do with it.

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Still can't see anything. Stull shots of the marks please. That's all we need.
You can’t see it? I’m just went back to the video and I can see it. Maybe it’s cropping out not sure give me one second

Still can't see anything. Stull shots of the marks please. That's all we need.

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I cant see shit either, can you just take a straight on picture of the crank mark just like this without a bunch of oil smudged across the lens? That would answer a bunch of questions here because your video still shot there doesn't even look like its lined up with a timing mark.

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I cant see shit either, can you just take a straight on picture of the crank mark just like this without a bunch of oil smudged across the lens? That would answer a bunch of questions here because your video still shot there doesn't even look like its lined up with a timing mark.

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Ok I think the photos are like getting zoomed in for y’all or something maybe it’s cuz I’m screenshotting using Snapchat. Hopefully this one is a little better

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@ttravis88t Nice picture to you too. Your crank looks like you have it lined up. Your cam timing is wrong. I bet your car will run better after you get the cams correct. This is wrong.
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I'm starting to question if you have the right cam gears if you state it runs so well. If I had to guess I'd say that crank is two teeth off. You would probably be better off going back to stock cam gears for now and verifying what you have. Per some other suggestions I would take it all apart and start over. This would let you inspect the trigger plate too. You need to rule out any possible error. Regardless of how it got there it is 100% those marks are wrong. Now we have to find out why. It would be very helpful if you filled out a profile on the car. If you're not 100% sure on some part then say so in the profile so we have something to help diagnose with you.
 
Referencing the cam dowel pins, I think the cam gears are correct. I'm heavily biased towards mechanical timing is wrong & I'd guess 2 crank teeth too. I'm curious as to what cams these are. "Runs fine" is very subjective as in, compared to what?
 
I'm incl
Referencing the cam dowel pins, I think the cam gears are correct. I'm heavily biased towards mechanical timing is wrong & I'd guess 2 crank teeth too. I'm curious as to what cams these are. "Runs fine" is very subjective as in, compared to what?
I agree with that statement. All of it.
Maybe at least set those gears on top of a stock set and see if it looks identical.
I've seen many cars that were off a tooth or two and the owners just thought that's the way it is. Fixed it and like...wow that's way better.
 
@pauleyman if it was me I would just fix it. Simple thing OP might do is just adjust those adjustable cam gears and get the marks lined up as they should be or at least as close as can be adjusted. This way OP can tell how fine, runs fine really is.
 
Is my timing off here? This socket is exactly at the top of its rotation so this is the top of the piston stroke for the cylinder all the way on the right closest to the cam gears. But as you can see the lines don’t match up. The car ran fine before this I was just checking up on it before I begin tuning. Maybe I’m wrong and this isn’t cylinder #1?

If it was off this much it for sure wouldn’t have ran so idk😂

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I don't know how more plainly I can say that it is wrong. You also do not have the cam gears up from what I can tell. There is only one dowel pin in the cam and it should be at the 12 oclock position. If I recall you said you didn't have balance shafts so it may not matter. Still the correct procedure is to have them at 12. If you are feeling unsure about this take it to somebody that knows. Again, this is wrong. Yes the car will likely run like this but not the way it should. If your socket method is accurate the mark should be lined up on the crank right now also.
 
I don't know how more plainly I can say that it is wrong. You also do not have the cam gears up from what I can tell. There is only one dowel pin in the cam and it should be at the 12 oclock position. If I recall you said you didn't have balance shafts so it may not matter. Still the correct procedure is to have them at 12. If you are feeling unsure about this take it to somebody that knows. Again, this is wrong. Yes the car will likely run like this but not the way it should. If your socket method is accurate the mark should be lined up on the crank right now also.
I said this like way in the beginning of the thread. You’re quoting as if I just said this after all the info I’ve been presented with. I did not.

So as of now I’m just going to leave well enough alone. It runs and it runs good. From what I can tell, by asking the previous owner he said this is how he had it set when he built the engine because something to do with the fact the gears are adjustable and that the cams are 272s. I’ll keep it like this unless I run into any problems
 
I said this like way in the beginning of the thread. You’re quoting as if I just said this after all the info I’ve been presented with. I did not.
I still say you should line this up with dowels up. It appears it is not dowels up. It may be an illusion bit it also looks like those lines aren't 180 opposite each other. If you line up crank with dowels up that would be definitive if the cams are correct or not.
 
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