Resolved 2G Engine Rebuild

[RubyEclipse]

Hello everyone! I just purchased my 1996 Eclipse GST a few months ago, had some issues with a few different things. Most recent was car was smoking and running very uneasy, so I decided to pull the engine. I am going to do a full engine rebuild-ish, I bought new wisco heads, still looking at the rods I want, if there’s anything anyone thinks I should buy and upgrade I would love help! Trying to push more power but not an insane amount seeing how I want this to be more of a daily but not quite. Thank you guys!

 

[CKOPOCT]

Would i be bringing all of the stuff to the shop for them to do timing and stuff? Because I know the timing very well now. Dine it

Well, considering you are practically a pro at setting the timing, why pay to have the shop do it. The more I think about it, the more I think Paul has the right of it: strip the block and keep hold of the timing bits yourself. Doesn't sound like reinstalling the timing components will add much stress to your life.

 

[techboy]

Just take them the block with the crank, pistons and rods in it like Pauley said. Remove everything else. Take some pics of the timing components, oil pump etc to make it easier to put back together. If I were you, I'd ask the shop to to disassemble, deck the top, hot tank it (that will clean the whole block and all the oil journals), have them check the line bore and measure the cylinders. If the cylinders are good, you should be able to get away with just a hone. You can do that yourself, but it'd probably be best if the machine shop did it since you're new. If the cylinders need to be bored they'll call you and tell you, and talk to you about options and then you'll know if you need to buy pistons or not. Assuming everything is within OEM spec, when you get it back you can buy piston rings, rod bearings and crank bearings, but like Pauley said, wait till you hear from the shop before you buy that stuff.

Last 4G63 I dropped off for everything I just described about 2 years ago cost me $700 even. I gave them a fully disassembled block though, no crank, pistons or rods so there will probably be a time fee for disassembly.

I don't know what machine shop prices are like in CA, they can vary a lot depending on region, reputation and how busy they are. I'd expect to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of that. If it's way cheaper, I'd be skeptical of the shop. I'm in PA and the guy I use I've used for over 20 years and EVERYBODY uses him b/c he's literally like the only guy around - so he pretty much charges what he wants.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

Got it. I know they’re probably going to take those out aren’t they? Should I ask them to leave them out? I’ll pull the rest off here soon. I just don’t want anything to rust or get lost, i do not have money quite yet for resurfacing. I know it’ll be upwards of 500 and up, or that’s my guess at least.

Dude, do your very best to understand the theory of operation for gasoline engines and all of the measurements that will be needed to get to where you wanna be.. it’s a lot to know, but not that hard.. try to work this stuff out in your head before spending ANY money and trust, money will be spent,, that’s all part of the game.. visualise all that’s needed first, then prioritise in sections.. sometimes A+B will not equal C, but C minus B does equal A.. careful grasshopper

 

[RubyEclipse]

Well, considering you are practically a pro at setting the timing, why pay to have the shop do it. The more I think about it, the more I think Paul has the right of it: strip the block and keep hold of the timing bits yourself. Doesn't sound like reinstalling the timing components will add much stress to your life.

Yeah, I think that’s a great idea.

Just take them the block with the crank, pistons and rods in it like Pauley said. Remove everything else. Take some pics of the timing components, oil pump etc to make it easier to put back together. If I were you, I'd ask the shop to to disassemble, deck the top, hot tank it (that will clean the whole block and all the oil journals), have them check the line bore and measure the cylinders. If the cylinders are good, you should be able to get away with just a hone. You can do that yourself, but it'd probably be best if the machine shop did it since you're new. If the cylinders need to be bored they'll call you and tell you, and talk to you about options and then you'll know if you need to buy pistons or not. Assuming everything is within OEM spec, when you get it back you can buy piston rings, rod bearings and crank bearings, but like Pauley said, wait till you hear from the shop before you buy that stuff.

Last 4G63 I dropped off for everything I just described about 2 years ago cost me $700 even. I gave them a fully disassembled block though, no crank, pistons or rods so there will probably be a time fee for disassembly.

I don't know what machine shop prices are like in CA, they can vary a lot depending on region, reputation and how busy they are. I'd expect to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of that. If it's way cheaper, I'd be skeptical of the shop. I'm in PA and the guy I use I've used for over 20 years and EVERYBODY uses him b/c he's literally like the only guy around - so he pretty much charges what he wants.

Yeah that’s more of the pricing I was expecting sadly. I really do not have that amount of money, so it’s going to take a minute. I can take off the head and take it, that’s about all I want to do before I take it in. I got the oil pump and everything else off, I can’t get the timing gears off, at least not all of them.

Dude, do your very best to understand the theory of operation for gasoline engines and all of the measurements that will be needed to get to where you wanna be.. it’s a lot to know, but not that hard.. try to work this stuff out in your head before spending ANY money and trust, money will be spent,, that’s all part of the game.. visualise all that’s needed first, then prioritise in sections.. sometimes A+B will not equal C, but C minus B does equal A.. careful grasshopper

I will, I’ve spent unnecessary money for parts I didn’t need, I’ve found that out. I was warned and still did it, so I won’t anymore. Thank you very much, I love the grasshopper quote.

 

[pauleyman]

Yeah that’s more of the pricing I was expecting sadly. I really do not have that amount of money, so it’s going to take a minute. I can take off the head and take it, that’s about all I want to do before I take it in. I got the oil pump and everything else off, I can’t get the timing gears off, at least not all of them.

With the motor out of the car you can remove oil pan, remove pickup and then you can either block the crank and remove the gears or remove the oil pump with shafts still attached and take it all apart after the fact.

Keep in mind if you're truly broke you dont HAVE to spend anything that you dont 100% need. When I was and broke teenager we would disassembled a motor and only fix what was broke. Put it all back together as it was. We figured we'll it was running before. Unless something was damaged we left it alone. In your case the biggest issue is the deck.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Keep in mind if you're truly broke you dont HAVE to spend anything that you dont 100% need. When I was and broke teenager we would disassembled a motor and only fix what was broke. Put it all back together as it was. We figured we'll it was running before. Unless something was damaged we left it alone. In your case the biggest issue is the deck.

Yep, exactly. I will not be replacing much more. If I do not need too. I’ll send a picture of my clutch, and current block as is when I get home. I’m a little concerned for my clutch, want to make sure I don’t have to replace it.

 

[pauleyman]

Yep, exactly. I will not be replacing much more. If I do not need too. I’ll send a picture of my clutch, and current block as is when I get home. I’m a little concerned for my clutch, want to make sure I don’t have to replace it.

Just as I was in high school....lots of time, no money. You now have the skill set to remove stuff if you absolutely have to. I'll say this also. In my 30 years of doing this you are the most determined person I've seen. Ive seen hundreds give up long long before they reached where you are. The skills you are building now will pay dividends 10 fold throughout your life.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Just as I was in high school....lots of time, no money. You now have the skill set to remove stuff if you absolutely have to. I'll say this also. In my 30 years of doing this you are the most determined person I've seen. Ive seen hundreds give up long long before they reached where you are. The skills you are building now will pay dividends 10 fold throughout your life.

I do hope so, and I know when I get this beast running again it will all be so so worth it!! I cannot thank you all for the help!!! And everyone else who’s given me advice. I was just quoted 150 for block resurfacing and more degreasing. They will not put in old pistons and rings unless it’s new and from them, this is the only shop I know of nearby. So it’s good, since I have to hone it anyways. Then I can also paint it and make it all pretty and nice. Let me know what you guys think I should do next, and how to get this fly wheel off without it spinning.

 

[pauleyman]

I do hope so, and I know when I get this beast running again it will all be so so worth it!! I cannot thank you all for the help!!! And everyone else who’s given me advice. I was just quoted 150 for block resurfacing and more degreasing. They will not put in old pistons and rings unless it’s new and from them, this is the only shop I know of nearby. So it’s good, since I have to hone it anyways. Then I can also paint it and make it all pretty and nice. Let me know what you guys think I should do next, and how to get this fly wheel off without it spinning.

If you dont have air tools take the oil pan off and stick a chunk of wood between block and crank. Just watch for one of the weights to come around.
Btw dont go turning the engine any which way unless you have the head off or the cams out.
Always be mindful of valve position when moving crank/pistons. If head is off or cams are out then there are no worries about valve position.

 

[techboy]

150 seems like a good price. If you can, pull the dowel alignment pins out of the block ahead of time before they resurface the deck. I've gotten blocks back already where 1's been missing. A good shop should keep track of small details like that, but better safe they have buy them and wait for them to arrive.

 

[RubyEclipse]

150 seems like a good price. If you can, pull the dowel alignment pins out of the block ahead of time before they resurface the deck. I've gotten blocks back already where 1's been missing. A good shop should keep track of small details like that, but better safe they have buy them and wait for them to arrive.

Yep. I have been told that, and I will do so. What should I take off first? The oil pan and flywheel? Sorry for the radio silence everyone. Been working a ton, today I want to get this thing ready. I’m going to buy and air compressor and take off this flywheel, and whatever timing gears I can. Then how do I get that oil dip stock out? And I think the oil pumps on the inside right? Don’t i need to get that one out too?

If you dont have air tools take the oil pan off and stick a chunk of wood between block and crank. Just watch for one of the weights to come around.
Btw dont go turning the engine any which way unless you have the head off or the cams out.
Always be mindful of valve position when moving crank/pistons. If head is off or cams are out then there are no worries about valve position.

ok you got it. I did out the cams at top dead center, I don’t know how good that is but I did it. I won’t turn the crank anymore though. Today’s goal is to get that head off.

 

[pauleyman]

ok you got it. I did out the cams at top dead center, I don’t know how good that is but I did it. I won’t turn the crank anymore though. Today’s goal is to get that head off.

The important takeaway is don't let the pistons close to open valves. I usually just love the pistons down bore. Qtr crank before or after TDC puts all the pistons in the middle. Of course if there are no cams it doesn't matter and if there is no head....well it matters even less.

 

[RubyEclipse]

The important takeaway is don't let the pistons close to open valves. I usually just love the pistons down bore. Qtr crank before or after TDC puts all the pistons in the middle. Of course if there are no cams it doesn't matter and if there is no head....well it matters even less.

Okay, you got it.

So, I got the pistons out. The head off, all that’s left in the block is the crank. And to be honest, im a little worried to mess something in it up. So I am going to do more research. Just wanted to keep you guys all updated.

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[19Eclipse90]

Remove the front case / oil pump and balance shafts. The shafts will come out with the case.

This post was just made about a front case so you know about what you’re removing. The aluminum “plate” behind all the timing stuff.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Ok, you're doing good! Take the oil pump off of the front of the engine (6 or 7 bolts or so). Pull it FORWARD (it may stick as it has a gasket). DON'T USE A SCREWDRIVER OR PRYBAR to separate it from the block as you may damage the mating surface. I'm sure some have and it didn't hurt, but properly, you shouldn't. Use a rubber or dead blow to tap around it to loosen it and pull it forward and off. The balance shafts will come out of both sides with it. After that, the crank will just lift straight up and out. You're doing good.
Edit: Sorry Brian.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Ok, you're doing good! Take the oil pump off of the front of the engine (6 or 7 bolts or so). Pull it FORWARD (it may stick as it has a gasket). DON'T USE A SCREWDRIVER OR PRYBAR to separate it from the block as you may damage the mating surface. I'm sure some have and it didn't hurt, but properly, you shouldn't. Use a rubber or dead blow to tap around it and loosen it and pull it off. After that, the crank will just lift straight up and out. You're doing good.
Edit: Sorry Brian.

This is how it sits currently. I got the oil pump off, all I need I think, is the balance shafts, and the main pulley for the crank.

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

The Rear Main seal housing has to be removed also, don't forget the tail end.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

Just as I was in high school....lots of time, no money. You now have the skill set to remove stuff if you absolutely have to. I'll say this also. In my 30 years of doing this you are the most determined person I've seen. Ive seen hundreds give up long long before they reached where you are. The skills you are building now will pay dividends 10 fold throughout your life.

Just remember Ruby, stay focused grasshopper, good things shall come from it..

Just remember Ruby, stay focused grasshopper, good things shall come from it..

The tearing apart is the easy part of it all.. the rebuild is the challenging part.. plastigage, assembly lubes, torque specs, part placement.. if ya get stuck on something, walk away and be sure to listen to the wisemen for advice and you’ll be fine, grasshopper…

 

[RubyEclipse]

The Rear Main seal housing has to be removed also, don't forget the tail end.

Yep just got that one off.

I am trying to pull up the front face plate, seems like it may be stuck?

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[19Eclipse90]

You need to remove the square-holed crankshaft bolt, sprockets, and timing plate. Those are in the way of the front case sliding off.

 

[RubyEclipse]

You need to remove the square-holed crankshaft bolt, sprockets, and timing plate. Those are in the way of the front case sliding off.

Thank you, I finally got it all out. The block looks amazing. It’s down to the bare everything. So im thinking, next im going to take the block to the shop. Once they return it too me, i am going to put my new struts and springs on. I will definitely be needing help on that, or would it be easier for a shop to do it?

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[99dsmer4g63]

Do not mix and match the rods and rod caps. Put them back on exactly as they came off.

It is best IMO to put everything that will be reused exactly where it came from originally.

Daniel

 

[RubyEclipse]

Do not mix and match the rods and rod caps. Put them back on exactly as they came off.

It is best IMO to put everything that will be reused exactly where it came from originally.

Daniel

Thank you very much, I did just that. I put them exactly with the pistons I pulled. Only think im worried about is if I flipped some caps. They’re on the correct rods though. Am I reusing those little metal bracket pieces? The ones off the crank and pistons?

 

[pauleyman]

Thank you, I finally got it all out. The block looks amazing. It’s down to the bare everything. So im thinking, next im going to take the block to the shop. Once they return it too me, i am going to put my new struts and springs on. I will definitely be needing help on that, or would it be easier for a shop to do it?

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What are your plans? You need to know before you take it. Are you replacing parts?

 

[RubyEclipse]

What are your plans? You need to know before you take it. Are you replacing parts?

I am getting this kit, and I have new struts and springs I am going to put on, the front and back. I got KYB struts and a set of springs I don’t remember the name for. I want to roll the shell over so I can wash and scrub it all down, where it sits it cannot be washed. I have gojng to have them check the block and make sure it’s square, and resurface it. While I work for money to buy the extra parts I need. Do you guys have any suggestions on what to do next? I am going to send pictures of my clutch and plates, tell me if they look decent or not. I do not want to be disconnecting, or pulling anything, any time soon.