Resolved 2G Engine Rebuild

[RubyEclipse]

Hello everyone! I just purchased my 1996 Eclipse GST a few months ago, had some issues with a few different things. Most recent was car was smoking and running very uneasy, so I decided to pull the engine. I am going to do a full engine rebuild-ish, I bought new wisco heads, still looking at the rods I want, if there’s anything anyone thinks I should buy and upgrade I would love help! Trying to push more power but not an insane amount seeing how I want this to be more of a daily but not quite. Thank you guys!

 

[Bigbeanbird]

I am getting this kit, and I have new struts and springs I am going to put on, the front and back. I got KYB struts and a set of springs I don’t remember the name for. I want to roll the shell over so I can wash and scrub it all down, where it sits it cannot be washed. I have gojng to have them check the block and make sure it’s square, and resurface it. While I work for money to buy the extra parts I need. Do you guys have any suggestions on what to do next? I am going to send pictures of my clutch and plates, tell me if they look decent or not. I do not want to be disconnecting, or pulling anything, any time soon.

i agree with Pauleyman, ya gotta kind of have a game plan.. if you had bunches of money then maybe a different story, me, I’m a poor ass so things are done on a schedule that takes time.. if ya had a straight edge and some feller blades you could check for a warped block urself.. patience grasshopper, don’t yank everything unless you’re ready to buy new stuff..

 

[RubyEclipse]

i agree with Pauleyman, ya gotta kind of have a game plan.. if you had bunches of money then maybe a different story, me, I’m a poor ass so things are done on a schedule that takes time.. if ya had a straight edge and some feller blades you could check for a warped block urself.. patience grasshopper, don’t yank everything unless you’re ready to buy new stuff..

I love the grasshopper, so funny. Just got my new struts and springs fitted. They look and fit amazing. Going to call more places to get price checks on the block. It’s ready to go in. After that, im planning to just build the “long block” and slap everything I can back on. Get the hoses and everything tagged and organized, plus getting the entireeeeee bay cleaned. I don’t think I’ll paint it, but I will degrease it all.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

I love the grasshopper, so funny. Just got my new struts and springs fitted. They look and fit amazing. Going to call more places to get price checks on the block. It’s ready to go in. After that, im planning to just build the “long block” and slap everything I can back on. Get the hoses and everything tagged and organized, plus getting the entireeeeee bay cleaned. I don’t think I’ll paint it, but I will degrease it all.

Dude, I’m watching you cause you got a 96 GST and I have a 97.. their like cousins or something .. I might learn something.. think I remember reading that the 2G’s are grouped as :95&96, and 97,98 and 99.. so like a 2G(a) and a 2G(b) classification..

 

[RubyEclipse]

Dude, I’m watching you cause you got a 96 GST and I have a 97.. their like cousins or something .. I might learn something.. think I remember reading that the 2G’s are grouped as :95&96, and 97,98 and 99.. so like a 2G(a) and a 2G(b) classification..

Ok sick I didn’t know that. That’s awesome.

How do I measure ring size? I want to make sure I get the right ring bore. Also, I found my kit I think it’s the right one, comes with just about every single thing I need.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[pauleyman]

You must let the machine shop measure THEN order parts. You won't know what size you need until it is measured. If necessary machine shop can overbore and you buy appropriate pistons/rings. If you plan on doing just a rering job you need to know what your current piston size is. It's likely a stock bore but you won't know until you look at the bore/pistons. Pistons are usually marked.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

You must let the machine shop measure THEN order parts. You won't know what size you need until it is measured. If necessary machine shop can overbore and you buy appropriate pistons/rings. If you plan on doing just a rering job you need to know what your current piston size is. It's likely a stock bore but you won't know until you look at the bore/pistons. Pistons are usually marked.

This is very important.. if your gonna get it decked, have the shop measure things out.. MASS IMPORTANT..!! But I think that rings are measured using an end gap measurement, meaning you would put the rings down into the bore (without pistons) and measure the gap that will be left at the ends.. bigger bore = bigger gap.. smaller bore =no gap… right gap =perfect bore.. I haven’t done crank bearings in awhile but plastigage was the way back then, prolly some new-fangled way to do it now (ECMLink???)

 

[RubyEclipse]

You must let the machine shop measure THEN order parts. You won't know what size you need until it is measured. If necessary machine shop can overbore and you buy appropriate pistons/rings. If you plan on doing just a rering job you need to know what your current piston size is. It's likely a stock bore but you won't know until you look at the bore/pistons. Pistons are usually marked.

How do I find that out? My pistons have a Mitsubishi symbol on them, is that okay? And do I have the shop measure them and that’s when I know?

This is very important.. if your gonna get it decked, have the shop measure things out.. MASS IMPORTANT..!! But I think that rings are measured using an end gap measurement, meaning you would put the rings down into the bore (without pistons) and measure the gap that will be left at the ends.. bigger bore = bigger gap.. smaller bore =no gap… right gap =perfect bore.. I haven’t done crank bearings in awhile but plastigage was the way back then, prolly some new-fangled way to do it now (ECMLink???)

Okay, got it. Could I take the old rings off and put them in the bore? Then measure the size and just buy new ones and get them to size?

 

[Bigbeanbird]

How do I find that out? My pistons have a Mitsubishi symbol on them, is that okay? And do I have the shop measure them and that’s when I know?

Dude, what I would do is let them measure the bore.. those have a tendency to get “barrel shaped” meaning the bore gets wider in the middle, and would be a little less wider towarda the top and bottom.. that would cause piston slap but yeah, get measurements so you know where to go with the build.. maybe just new rings, maybe rings AND pistons.. could be.001 bigger, could be .006 bigger.. let someone with the right tools measure for sure.. if you go buy pistons that measure 4.095 and the bore is 4.085, it ain’t gonna work.. right??

 

[19Eclipse90]

Based on your previous posts of the block with the head off, they look to be stock bore pistons. The top face of 2G pistons are marked 63DTF1. If they were oversized, they would show some decimal measurement of how much to provide an idea as to what size. I don’t see that on the face so I expect stock bore.

However - if the machine shop determines that the cylinders need to be resized (this generally means enlarging the bore), you may be required to buy rings and pistons to match. So you need to wait to see how everything measures so you don’t end up having to buy things twice.

 

[pauleyman]

How do I find that out? My pistons have a Mitsubishi symbol on them, is that okay? And do I have the shop measure them and that’s when I know?


Okay, got it. Could I take the old rings off and put them in the bore? Then measure the size and just buy new ones and get them to size?

I don't think you're following. Are you intending to get new pistons or not? If yes hand the block over to the machine shop and let them measure. Order after they tell you what they measure. If you want to rering and not do any machining to the bore at all (that's what us old timers used to do) then you determine your current piston/bore size and buy that ring size. You probably have stock bore. Overbore if sometimes marked on the pistons.
There is more to do once you figure this out.

 

[RubyEclipse]

I don't think you're following. Are you intending to get new pistons or not? If yes hand the block over to the machine shop and let them measure. Order after they tell you what they measure. If you want to rering and not do any machining to the bore at all (that's what us old timers used to do) then you determine your current piston/bore size and buy that ring size. You probably have stock bore. Overbore if sometimes marked on the pistons.
There is more to do once you figure this out.

Okay, you got it. I will measure and see. I do want to re ring, I do not have money for anything else currently.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

Based on your previous posts of the block with the head off, they look to be stock bore pistons. The top face of 2G pistons are marked 63DTF1. If they were oversized, they would show some decimal measurement of how much to provide an idea as to what size. I don’t see that on the face so I expect stock bore.

However - if the machine shop determines that the cylinders need to be resized (this generally means enlarging the bore), you may be required to buy rings and pistons to match. So you need to wait to see how everything measures so you don’t end up having to buy things twice.

I didn’t know that the oversize would be stamped on top of the piston, that’s cool.. Ruby, 19eclipse90 has the good info, wait until someone that knows how to measure these things gets in there.. your only wanna do this once so look at the total job..(pistons, rings, bore or not bore, deck shave and I think while you got it apart this far, check the crank and connecting rod bearings as well).. might avoid a disaster.. what if you bored it, new pistons ands rings, get it back together and seize a rod bearing?? Better safe than sorry grasshopper…

 

[RubyEclipse]

Based on your previous posts of the block with the head off, they look to be stock bore pistons. The top face of 2G pistons are marked 63DTF1. If they were oversized, they would show some decimal measurement of how much to provide an idea as to what size. I don’t see that on the face so I expect stock bore.

However - if the machine shop determines that the cylinders need to be resized (this generally means enlarging the bore), you may be required to buy rings and pistons to match. So you need to wait to see how everything measures so you don’t end up having to buy things twice.

Okay you got it. That does make sense. Thank you

I didn’t know that the oversize would be stamped on top of the piston, that’s cool.. Ruby, 19eclipse90 has the good info, wait until someone that knows how to measure these things gets in there.. your only wanna do this once so look at the total job..(pistons, rings, bore or not bore, deck shave and I think while you got it apart this far, check the crank and connecting rod bearings as well).. might avoid a disaster.. what if you bored it, new pistons ands rings, get it back together and seize a rod bearing?? Better safe than sorry grasshopper…

Yep, of course. That definitely makes sense. What do I do about the bearings? Do I take anything else to a shop besides the block?

 

[pauleyman]

Okay you got it. That does make sense. Thank you


Yep, of course. That definitely makes sense. What do I do about the bearings? Do I take anything else to a shop besides the block?

This another one of those "while its apart" kinda things. In your particular case if bearings are good, put them back. No measuring required IF you kept everything in order.
Brian is right. You probably have stock bore. You can just rering, no measurement required. Is that the best option? not necessarily but that doesnt mean its a bad option. You do what you can do.

 

[RubyEclipse]

This another one of those "while its apart" kinda things. In your particular case if bearings are good, put them back. No measuring required IF you kept everything in order.
Brian is right. You probably have stock bore. You can just rering, no measurement required. Is that the best option? not necessarily but that doesnt mean its a bad option. You do what you can do.

When you say re ring, im still getting new rings correct? Not reusing?

 

[pauleyman]

When you say re ring, im still getting new rings correct? Not reusing?

Yes. Again you dont even have to do that. Rhey are pretty cheap though. Your biggest problem is the deck.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Yes. Again you dont even have to do that. Rhey are pretty cheap though. Your biggest problem is the deck.

Yes, I agree. Everything else was running and sounding great.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

Yes, I agree. Everything else was running and sounding great.

One of those “while it’s apart” things is right..!!! if you do decide to check bearings, be super super careful, make sure they go back the same way they came out, if mismatching happens it will be catastrophic.. can’t stress that enough..

 

[RubyEclipse]

One of those “while it’s apart” things is right..!!! if you do decide to check bearings, be super super careful, make sure they go back the same way they came out, if mismatching happens it will be catastrophic.. can’t stress that enough..

Okay got it, I won’t even try it then to be honest, because I do want my car to be working.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

If I have a motor apart, it's new rings and bearings that go back in. Maybe it's just me but always. Same size, just new. Glaze break the cylinders at that time for fast ring sealing. Easy peasy stuff. Just $$.

 

[RubyEclipse]

If I have a motor apart, it's new rings and bearings that go back in. Maybe it's just me but always. Same size, just new. Glaze break the cylinders at that time for fast ring sealing. Easy peasy stuff. Just $$.

What does glaze break the cylinders mean?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I'm sorry. It just means running a flex hone back thru the cylinders to "roughen" them up for the new set of rings. Some call them "Dingle ball" hones but they look like this and are very good for rebuilds. I even run mine thru a fresh shop bore to make it how I like it. I use a 320 grit flex hone for the final finish. Rings break in almost immediately.
They look like this only for an 85mm bore.
I have a cute little one for domestic motor lifter bores. They are handy for brake jobs too.
The "glazed" part comes from how old cylinders look when the pistons are removed. No hone marks, just a mirror like finish. That needs roughed up for the new rings to seal.
Marty

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[pauleyman]

If I have a motor apart, it's new rings and bearings that go back in. Maybe it's just me but always. Same size, just new. Glaze break the cylinders at that time for fast ring sealing. Easy peasy stuff. Just $$.

I was throwing that out there based on a teenager wallet. Do only what he must. You remember those days....
Or maybe we dont? What's your name again????

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I get it Paul. I just watched a video on a guy reusing his HG. I don't do that either. Even when I was young, new gaskets went on.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

What does glaze break the cylinders mean?

Yeah man, I didn’t mention that.. with new rings you HAVE to have the cylinders honed so the rings will set, it’s those cross hatched marks in the cylinders.. shoot, we’d get in there when I was just a lad with some sandpaper and sand it.. kinda worked..