Resolved 2G Engine Rebuild

[RubyEclipse]

Hello everyone! I just purchased my 1996 Eclipse GST a few months ago, had some issues with a few different things. Most recent was car was smoking and running very uneasy, so I decided to pull the engine. I am going to do a full engine rebuild-ish, I bought new wisco heads, still looking at the rods I want, if there’s anything anyone thinks I should buy and upgrade I would love help! Trying to push more power but not an insane amount seeing how I want this to be more of a daily but not quite. Thank you guys!

 

[CKOPOCT]

Not a lot to go on here. Rebuilding the engine with beefier internals won't build more power... it'll just set you up for having more power. As to internal component recommendations, sounds like you can probably make the power you want on pretty much a stock rebuild. The stock 4g63 can handle over 300hp.

Best thing is for you to define your budget and power goals. With that info we can begin to offer recommendations.

bear in mind that if you have a MT you'll be limited in your power putput to about 350 as anything above that risks the tranny gears biting the dust depending on how hard you drive the car.

 

[pauleyman]

Hello everyone! I just purchased my 1996 Eclipse GST a few months ago, had some issues with a few different things. Most recent was car was smoking and running very uneasy, so I decided to pull the engine. I am going to do a full engine rebuild-ish, I bought new wisco heads, still looking at the rods I want, if there’s anything anyone thinks I should buy and upgrade I would love help! Trying to push more power but not an insane amount seeing how I want this to be more of a daily but not quite. Thank you guys!

Did yiu do any tests before pulling the motor? There are a host of reasons for your symptoms.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Not a lot to go on here. Rebuilding the engine with beefier internals won't build more power... it'll just set you up for having more power. As to internal component recommendations, sounds like you can probably make the power you want on pretty much a stock rebuild. The stock 4g63 can handle over 300hp.

Best thing is for you to define your budget and power goals. With that info we can begin to offer recommendations.

bear in mind that if you have a MT you'll be limited in your power putput to about 350 as anything above that risks the tranny gears biting the dust depending on how hard you drive the car.

Ok got it, so would I swap the tranny so that doesn’t happen or how would I go around that? And what plans should I make to build more boost and power if better internals won’t do that? My budget is also going to be tight for a bit, I more of want to get this car running before I go all in. That said, the time got all messed up and bent the valves and went into the heads. That’s why I’m just going to pull it and rebuild it, the issues I had with the car I’m guessing will still be there even after I pull it all apart.

Did yiu do any tests before pulling the motor? There are a host of reasons for your symptoms.

I did , I did a ton of different things to check different components and I really couldn’t tell the difference, so after the car got off timed and the valves bent I thought it would just be a good time to rebuild a little things since I have to pull it to retime it anyways.

 

[pauleyman]

Ok got it, so would I swap the tranny so that doesn’t happen or how would I go around that? And what plans should I make to build more boost and power if better internals won’t do that? My budget is also going to be tight for a bit, I more of want to get this car running before I go all in. That said, the time got all messed up and bent the valves and went into the heads. That’s why I’m just going to pull it and rebuild it, the issues I had with the car I’m guessing will still be there even after I pull it all apart.


I did , I did a ton of different things to check different components and I really couldn’t tell the difference, so after the car got off timed and the valves bent I thought it would just be a good time to rebuild a little things since I have to pull it to retime it anyways.

We are happy to answer question but please do yourself a favor.
Start here. This website you are on represent the combined archival knowledge of decade of research, trial and error of those that have gone before you. It's all at your fingertips.

Resources

DSM Resources Tech Library. Read through it all, and if you have a lot of experience with DSMs, contribute articles and tutorials to help grow the collective knowledge.

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Ok got it, so would I swap the tranny so that doesn’t happen or how would I go around that?

no. The stock tranny just doesn't like to hold a ton of power. There are upgrades available but they are pricey.

And what plans should I make to build more boost and power if better internals won’t do that?

The point was internals don't add power. They stay together when you are.

My budget is also going to be tight for a bit, I more of want to get this car running before I go all in. That said, the time got all messed up and bent the valves and went into the heads. That’s why I’m just going to pull it and rebuild it, the issues I had with the car I’m guessing will still be there even after I pull it all apart.


I did , I did a ton of different things to check different components and I really couldn’t tell the difference, so after the car got off timed and the valves bent I thought it would just be a good time to rebuild a little things since I have to pull it to retime it anyways.

You seem to be combining stories.
Might help to tell us things in chronological order. You have multiple threads with multiple problems. A build thread in your profile might help.

 

[RubyEclipse]

no. The stock tranny just doesn't like to hold a ton of power. There are upgrades available but they are pricey.

The point was internals don't add power. They stay together when you are.

You seem to be combining stories.
Might help to tell us things in chronological order. You have multiple threads with multiple problems. A build thread in your profile might help.

I updated my profile and talked about all the issues it’s had so far, let me know what you think and what’s the next step I should do. Thank you so very much again!!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser vehicle profiles, photos, build threads, specs, and information.

DSM vehicle profiles and build threads - posted by Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 owners

www.dsmtuners.com

 

[CKOPOCT]

Ok got it, so would I swap the tranny so that doesn’t happen or how would I go around that? And what plans should I make to build more boost and power if better internals won’t do that? My budget is also going to be tight for a bit, I more of want to get this car running before I go all in. That said, the time got all messed up and bent the valves and went into the heads. That’s why I’m just going to pull it and rebuild it, the issues I had with the car I’m guessing will still be there even after I pull it all apart.


I did , I did a ton of different things to check different components and I really couldn’t tell the difference, so after the car got off timed and the valves bent I thought it would just be a good time to rebuild a little things since I have to pull it to retime it anyways.

If you have the engine out and apart already, then it makes sense to build the internals now. You will still need to identify your power goals. You can get to around 400-500 chp with some relatively moderate internal upgrades. More than 500 and you're looking at making more serious changes to the internals.

When you build the block, aim to overbuild it by 20%. So if you want a reliable 400 chp out of the engine, build it to handle 480-500 chp. That will help ensure you don't grenade things if you push it.

The resources link @pauleyman gave is THE place to start as it will give you much of the background you need. Once the engine is done and you have the goals and cash, the components you'll need to get you to your power goals will be many and varied. There will be a lot of opinions on what turbo to use, or what injector size, or whether to go with speed density or MAF, etc. As Paul said, everything you are looking to do has been done by folks on here before, and most (if not all) has been documented. There's even a guy updating on here who's modifying a 2g to have 3 engines in it.

I was new to the DSM platform when I joined and was able to learn everything I needed to know to completely rebuild and modify my 2g Spyder GST. Full rewire, beast-from-the-east vette eater. Point is, spend time mining the forum and various threads... and read, read, read. The more comfortable you are digging and researching on here, the easier and better this will be. Your car is almost 30 years old. Stuff is going to break. Cables will bind. Bolts will snap. And stuff is hard to come by. Trust me - you'll need the info given on this forum to overcome the challenges you'll face before the car is done.

 

[pauleyman]

I updated my profile and talked about all the issues it’s had so far, let me know what you think and what’s the next step I should do. Thank you so very much again!!

Well....let me say this. The above statements are largely true. We've been there and done that. Read u til your eyes hurt. Now that you have to take the motor apart, yes you can replace internals. If for a moment you think the smoke is coming from somewhere else you could just put a top end on it and run it. Yiu said tests were inconclusive. What did you test? I don't often do this but given you've said you have wiseco heads please share with us your mechanical expertise. Beginner? Intermediate? Etc. No judgement. But it helps us to give advice.
As far as where you might want to go...well that's going to depend on money, expertise and goals. Please check This tutorial might help.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Well....let me say this. The above statements are largely true. We've been there and done that. Read u til your eyes hurt. Now that you have to take the motor apart, yes you can replace internals. If for a moment you think the smoke is coming from somewhere else you could just put a top end on it and run it. Yiu said tests were inconclusive. What did you test? I don't often do this but given you've said you have wiseco heads please share with us your mechanical expertise. Beginner? Intermediate? Etc. No judgement. But it helps us to give advice.
As far as where you might want to go...well that's going to depend on money, expertise and goals. Please check This tutorial might help

Engine is not out yet, but I know I will be so so so much easier to retime with it out, and I want to get it resurfaced and cleaned up before I start. The smoking source, I just do not know where it’s coming from I was so lost with that. All the forums I was reading all said different things. I am very beginner level, I know how some components work on cars, I understand the basics, I know changes, brake pads and rotor changes, just very small stuff. Is there something wrong with the wisco heads? I just saw them on market place, half the price, brand new and picked them up knowing my other ones are dented.

 

[pauleyman]

Engine is not out yet, but I know I will be so so so much easier to retime with it out, and I want to get it resurfaced and cleaned up before I start. The smoking source, I just do not know where it’s coming from I was so lost with that. All the forums I was reading all said different things. I am very beginner level, I know how some components work on cars, I understand the basics, I know changes, brake pads and rotor changes, just very small stuff. Is there something wrong with the wisco heads? I just saw them on market place, half the price, brand new and picked them up knowing my other ones are dented.

Wiseco pistons.

Engine is not out yet, but I know I will be so so so much easier to retime with it out, and I want to get it resurfaced and cleaned up before I start.

thats a matter of opinion I suppose. I just did one and i didnt pull the motor. But i also knew the car ran well before the timing belt failure. In your case you may be better off unless you want to roll the dice. The smoking problem could be bottom end issues, turbo, or as simple as a PCV issue.

The smoking source, I just do not know where it’s coming from I was so lost with that. All the forums I was reading all said different things. I am very beginner level, I know how some components work on cars, I understand the basics, I know changes, brake pads and rotor changes, just very small stuff. Is there something wrong with the wisco heads? I just saw them on market place, half the price, brand new and picked them up knowing my other ones are dented.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Wiseco pistons.

Oh I didn’t spell it right, sorry.

 

[pauleyman]

Oh I didn’t spell it right, sorry.

No. They're pistons. Not heads.

 

[RubyEclipse]

thats a matter of opinion I suppose. I just did one and i didnt pull the motor. But i also knew the car ran well before the timing belt failure. In your case you may be better off unless you want to roll the dice. The smoking problem could be bottom end issues, turbo, or as simple as a PCV issue.

I checked the pcv, and replaced it. It didn’t fix it, but I mean it could be the turbo, the guy was not nice on the car. I can that definitely, when he took me for a spin before I bought it absolutely revved the crap out of it so I wouldn’t be surprised.

No. They're pistons. Not heads.

Oh… so heads are the top that go on the block, I don’t call them heads too, got it. Sorry about that! Thank you.

 

[CKOPOCT]

Okay. So you are a beginner. No problem with that; we've all been there. Except perhaps for Paul. And Marty. They were both born in an engine bay... or so I hear. But for the rest of us, we all started where you are.

Not gonna lie - as a beginner trying to take a 30yo car that's burning oil and jumped out of time, and turn it into a reliable 350+ hp street machine - you're in for one hell of a mountain climb. It's not Everest, but you'll definitely need oxygen before you are done.

We'll be happy to guide and encourage you, but we can't and won't walk you up the mountain. If you're willing to read and learn, you'll do fine and will get there.

First off - the Wiseco pistons you bought. Don't get married to them and don't get angry. Pistons are selected and sized based on the cylinder bore diameter. If your engine needs to be machined, the cylinders will be cut down based on how worn they are and the shape they are in. The final cylinder bore diameter will determine how big the pistons need to be. So the ones you bought might not fit your engine bore diameter.

In the future, don't buy parts unless you know you need them and why. You will spend far less money and have greater and faster success with this car if you educate your self ad nauseum first, and THEN proceed to buy and build.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Okay. So you are a beginner. No problem with that; we've all been there. Except perhaps for Paul. And Marty. They were both born in an engine bay... or so I hear. But for the rest of us, we all started where you are.

Not gonna lie - as a beginner trying to take a 30yo car that's burning oil and jumped out of time, and turn it into a reliable 350+ hp street machine - you're in for one hell of a mountain climb. It's not Everest, but you'll definitely need oxygen before you are done.

We'll be happy to guide and encourage you, but we can't and won't walk you up the mountain. If you're willing to read and learn, you'll do fine and will get there.

First off - the Wiseco pistons you bought. Don't get married to them and don't get angry. Pistons are selected and sized based on the cylinder bore diameter. If your engine needs to be machined, the cylinders will be cut down based on how worn they are and the shape they are in. The final cylinder bore diameter will determine how big the pistons need to be. So the ones you bought might not fit your engine bore diameter.

In the future, don't buy parts unless you know you need them and why. You will spend far less money and have greater and faster success with this car if you educate your self ad nauseum first, and THEN proceed to buy and build.

Ok you got it, I am absolutely willing to climb up this mountain, if you think it would be better to push more later I will. I’m thinking it’s going to be better to just start more stock and get it running and reliable before I start trying to make more hp. Let me know what you think I should do.

Before I really start boosting, I just want a reliable daily. I don’t make enough money to really start spending yet.

 

[pauleyman]

Before I really start boosting, I just want a reliable daily. I don’t make enough money to really start spending yet.

Now we're getting somewhere. Did you perform a compression or leakdown test? Is the head off the car? What's the current status?

 

[RubyEclipse]

Now we're getting somewhere. Did you perform a compression or leakdown test? Is the head off the car? What's the current status?

I did do a leak down test, i think… how exactly do you do it? I might’ve not done it correctly. But I didn’t do a compression test, I don’t know how or where to get the tools and supplies.

Now we're getting somewhere. Did you perform a compression or leakdown test? Is the head off the car? What's the current status?

The current state of the car is the head is off, completely naked, I took off all that I could. Replaced my cam position sensor that broke. This is the current state, I don’t know why there is so much carbon build up in the intake, I think from poor fuel? But I don’t know anything.

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[pauleyman]

I did do a leak down test, i think… how exactly do you do it? I might’ve not done it correctly. But I didn’t do a compression test, I don’t know how or where to get the tools and supplies.

Requires a compressor and a set of leakdown gauges.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Requires a compressor and a set of leakdown gauges.

Ok, can I do one right now? If I go rent something from o’rileys or autozone?

 

[CKOPOCT]

No you can't. A leakdown test has to be performed with the engine completely assembled. Google "engine leakdown test" and you'll find out what it is. Faster than typing it out. There are a couple of good tech articles on here about it too.

The "carbon" in the intake looks like normal muck to me. Engine probably has 120k+ or so on it? That is a combination of condensation, oil, combustion gasses, fuel vapor, etc. It mainly gets in from the PCV valve - recirculated air from inside of the engine. Totally normal, and almost unavoidable unless you have a good and properly set up (and maintained) catch can system.

#1 runner does look a little dark and wet though... (#1 is the right-hand most one in the picture, because cylinder #1 is always the one closest to the timing belt/chain in any engine).

 

[RubyEclipse]

No you can't. A leakdown test has to be performed with the engine completely assembled. Google "engine leakdown test" and you'll find out what it is. Faster than typing it out. There are a couple of good tech articles on here about it too.

The "carbon" in the intake looks like normal muck to me. Engine probably has 120k+ or so on it? That is a combination of condensation, oil, combustion gasses, fuel vapor, etc. It mainly gets in from the PCV valve - recirculated air from inside of the engine. Totally normal, and almost unavoidable unless you have a good and properly set up (and maintained) catch can system.

#1 runner does look a little dark and wet though... (#1 is the right-hand most one in the picture, because cylinder #1 is always the one closest to the timing belt/chain in any engine).

Got it, I will definitely research those tonight. The muk must be build up then if you think over 120 thousand should look like that, I have 136 on the dash, thank you for telling me which piston I genuinely had no clue. I was going to guess it’s 1 based off of the spark plug set up.

 

[pauleyman]

Quite a bit of rust in those cylinders. Has this engine been sitting for awhile?what does the head look like?

 

[RubyEclipse]

Quite a bit of rust in those cylinders. Has this engine been sitting for awhile?what does the head look like?

Engine has been sitting for a hot sec, about a month to a month and a half, the rust comes off when I touch it with my finger, I think when it gets re-honed it’ll come off easy.

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[pauleyman]

Engine has been sitting for a hot sec, about a month to a month and a half, the rust comes off when I touch it with my finger, I think when it gets re-honed it’ll come off easy.

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You scrapped all the valves already? What are all those marks. Lookes like the head got dragged down the driveway.

I did do a leak down test, i think… how exactly do you do it? I might’ve not done it correctly. But I didn’t do a compression test, I don’t know how or where to get the tools and supplies.

You obviously didn't do a leakdown. So what did you do?