Resolved 2G Engine Rebuild

[RubyEclipse]

Hello everyone! I just purchased my 1996 Eclipse GST a few months ago, had some issues with a few different things. Most recent was car was smoking and running very uneasy, so I decided to pull the engine. I am going to do a full engine rebuild-ish, I bought new wisco heads, still looking at the rods I want, if there’s anything anyone thinks I should buy and upgrade I would love help! Trying to push more power but not an insane amount seeing how I want this to be more of a daily but not quite. Thank you guys!

 

[RubyEclipse]

You scrapped all the valves already? What are all those marks. Lookes like the head got dragged down the driveway.

I have all the valves, I have zero clue why the head looks like that, I was guessing it was from the gasket, but I know valves jacked it up when they got bent into the head.

You obviously didn't do a leakdown. So what did you do?

I can’t say for sure, my memory is that of Dory so I’m going to say nothing right now. Would be better if I bought a new head, I know this one is just jacked to crap.

 

[curt-s]

Oof.
Start researching a good machine shop in your area. You're most likely looking at a minimum:

new valves
New guides
New seats cut for the new valves
Head deck
Block
New pistons
Pistons fit into existing rods or new rods. Depends on pistons (floating or not)
Crank should be checked
Bearings
Rings

That head needs some serious work but it may be scrap depending on how deep those gouges are and if you have someone that can weld it and resurface. The pistons definitely look like they've kissed all the intake valves, the block looks way too rusty for sitting such a short while, and this spot looks suspect as hell:

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That gouge cuts right through the fire ring area, leading combustion gas straight to the water jacket
That looks like it happened after the head was removed otherwise you'd have a real problem trying to run that before.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Oof.
Start researching a good machine shop in your area. You're most likely looking at a minimum:

new valves
New guides
New seats cut for the new valves
Head deck
Block
New pistons
Pistons fit into existing rods or new rods. Depends on pistons (floating or not)
Crank should be checked
Bearings
Rings

That head needs some serious work but it may be scrap depending on how deep those gouges are and if you have someone that can weld it and resurface. The pistons definitely look like they've kissed all the intake valves, the block looks way too rusty for sitting such a short while, and this spot looks suspect as hell:

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That gouge cuts right through the fire ring area, leading combustion gas straight to the water jacket
That looks like it happened after the head was removed otherwise you'd have a real problem trying to run that before.

Yeah the head is in terrible shape, I might just scrap it because in the shape it’s in it would be the same price fixing it as it would be to buy a new one, at least for the ones I’ve been looking at. That block I don’t know how it rusted that quickly, it has only been a month to 2 maximum, it has started raining a little more event but it’s under a cover as in a roof over it, you think it could be the dew? And do i need a new block because of it?

And can the block still be recovered, should I do anything about that rust before it gets worse? I can get a whole new block and top for about 1-1500 right now, I’ve seen quite a few in my area.

 

[curt-s]

Rust isn't a problem usually. You'll know more once you get this block fully inspected, have the cylinders measured if theyre still pretty clean, and do a once over for any issues. Pay particular attention to the ears for the trans mounts, as they can crack and break off due to age and careless previous owners. Also inspect the bottom bearings for their wear pattern as that will clue you to whether you have an issue there as well.
Generally there are a number of guides here that will give you the information you need at this point because it's all pretty standard stuff for refreshing/rebuilding a block with an unknown and questionable history.

At this point you wouldn't be any better off with another random block off the internets. You'd be doing the same stuff to get it checked

 

[RubyEclipse]

Rust isn't a problem usually. You'll know more once you get this block fully inspected, have the cylinders measured if theyre still pretty clean, and do a once over for any issues. Pay particular attention to the ears for the trans mounts, as they can crack and break off due to age and careless previous owners. Also inspect the bottom bearings for their wear pattern as that will clue you to whether you have an issue there as well.
Generally there are a number of guides here that will give you the information you need at this point because it's all pretty standard stuff for refreshing/rebuilding a block with an unknown and questionable history.

At this point you wouldn't be any better off with another random block off the internets. You'd be doing the same stuff to get it checked

Ok for sure, I’ll start saving up to get it cleaned and refreshed. Where exactly are the trans mounts, and I’m looking for cracks or tears you said? And look at the bottom bearings, I’ll take the head in and see what they think I should do with it, should I take everything off and out of the block when I take it on? That way they can do it or do I leave everything inside?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Ok, can I do one right now? If I go rent something from o’rileys or autozone?

Unable to do that test with the head off sir. If the intake had soot in it, it wasn't fuel. The intake only handles air, the fuel is injected right on the head, after the intake tract.

Wipe those cylinders with a rag that has automatic transmission fluid soaked in it. It will lube the cylinders and keep anymore rust from accumulating. It "may" even remove any surface flash rust.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Unable to do that test with the head off sir. If the intake had soot in it, it wasn't fuel. The intake only handles air, the fuel is injected right on the head, after the intake tract.

Ok got it. Thank you very much. I didn’t know if anything mixes in there, was just curious, i appreciate it.

Wipe those cylinders with a rag that has automatic transmission fluid soaked in it. It will lube the cylinders and keep anymore rust from accumulating. It "may" even remove any surface flash rust.

Ok I will as soon as I get home, thank you!

 

[steve]

That head is going to need quite a bit of work. It looks like all the valve guides we can see are cracked, the scrapes noted before, and I can't tell if it's a scratch or if the valve seat is cracked here as well.

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[RubyEclipse]

That head is going to need quite a bit of work. It looks like all the valve guides we can see are cracked, the scrapes noted before, and I can't tell if it's a scratch or if the valve seat is cracked here as well.

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Yea, I think I’m just going to find another head and replace it. Is there a difference in heads for 7 bolt engines and 6 bolt engines?

 

[pauleyman]

Yea, I think I’m just going to find another head and replace it. Is there a difference in heads for 7 bolt engines and 6 bolt engines?

All 6 bolt are 1g and will have large intake ports. 7bolt there are 1g and 2g style. Large or small port respectively. 1g and 2g have different thermostat housing and 2g have CAS under the intake cam for 95 96 and 97 up CAS on passenger side of intake cam

 

[RubyEclipse]

All 6 bolt are 1g and will have large intake ports. 7bolt there are 1g and 2g style. Large or small port respectively. 1g and 2g have different thermostat housing and 2g have CAS under the intake cam for 95 96 and 97 up CAS on passenger side of intake cam

Ok got it, I’m pretty sure I have a 7 bolt engine, is there a specific head you think I should find? Or just any maintained 7 bolt head?

 

[pauleyman]

You're better off going back to a 2g head if you're going to replace the head. It will cause you the least amount of problems.

 

[RubyEclipse]

You're better off going back to a 2g head if you're going to replace the head. It will cause you the least amount of problems.

Ok perfect, I already found one from a friend. Ima get it, should I put in new valves or do anything to the new head? It’s used and has 197k miles from a 97 GSX.

 

[CKOPOCT]

Yes. Send the head to a machine shop and get it refreshed. 197k miles - everything needs to be checked. Even if the head was recently refreshed and only run for a few hundred miles, taking it off the block subjects it to warping (ah, the joys of aluminum), so the head will need to be checked and probably machined true at a minimum.

 

[pauleyman]

Ok perfect, I already found one from a friend. Ima get it, should I put in new valves or do anything to the new head? It’s used and has 197k miles from a 97 GSX.

Send it machine shop and have it freshened up and checked. Good shop will check for damage, do a valve job, clean it and deck it

 

[RubyEclipse]

Send it machine shop and have it freshened up and checked. Good shop will check for damage, do a valve job, clean it and deck it

Perfect, will do. Thank you so much!!

 

[pauleyman]

Regardless of what you do you should not set a head on its sealing surface, especially if it has cams in it. Protect the valves and sealing surfaces by handling it carefully and put it on its side or one folded towel/pad.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Regardless of what you do you should not set a head on its sealing surface, especially if it has cams in it. Protect the valves and sealing surfaces by handling it carefully and put it on its side or one folded towel/pad.

Ok I will definitely keep that in mind and be better.

I just remembered the very last issue I had before I pulled the head off, I had no coolant flow. I popped the radiator cap off when the car was running and there was nothing, car was capped off on coolant but there was nothing moving it seemed. I checked my temp gauge and it was through the roof, only for like 10 seconds but still. Car was smoking and steaming, ran insanely hot. Was wondering if I should check my water pump when I pull the car off?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

That will be part of your rebuild,.the timing belt job particularly. You should always replace the water pump if you are there and can see it.

 

[RubyEclipse]

That will be part of your rebuild,.the timing belt job particularly. You should always replace the water pump if you are there and can see it.

Ok got it, thank you!

Ok so, Mr. Paul and I came up with what I think is a better plan. I was silly and made mistakes buying things before I checked everything and did research. I am not going to pull the engine or anything I am going to leave it there. The pistons aren’t that badly damaged, I will be taking my new head to be resurfaced, cleaned and checked. I still have to retime the car because it was off. I want to learn this car a littl better and I’m going to be doing more of maintenance and checking to make sure everything is running the way it should. Would love help from everyone, thank you all for your advice and help so far. Hopefully we’re gonna get her running and back up soon! If you guys can help with my next steps with what I need to do before i put the head on and test her. And how I should clean the surface rust in the cylinders. Right now I want to keep her more stock and just reliable before I try throwing boost and rebuilding it.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

how I should clean the surface rust in the cylinders

ATF and “quality” coffee filters.

-Daniel

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

ATF and fine steel wool pads but HONESTLY, it looked like surface rust. The rings would,.more than likely, reseat as is. Clean up with pure ATF on white filters or paper towels until they come out red, no Grey or Brown.
I wouldn't scrub to much tho. Just try to do your best at getting surface rust is all you can do and then clean the shit out of each cylinder until the ATF comes back out bright red, like out of the bottle. ATF is a lubricant and also a detergent.

 

[RubyEclipse]

ATF and fine steel wool pads but HONESTLY, it looked like surface rust. The rings would,.more than likely, reseat as is. Clean up with pure ATF on white filters or paper towels until they come out red, no Grey or Brown.
I wouldn't scrub to much tho. Just try to do your best at getting surface rust is all you can do and then clean the shit out of each cylinder until the ATF comes back out bright red, like out of the bottle. ATF is a lubricant and also a detergent.

Awesome I will get on that tonight, thank you so much!!

 

[pauleyman]

You're on the right path. Didn't you say it was smoking and such before it broke? You may have just overheated. Head will be the important part.

 

[RubyEclipse]

You're on the right path. Didn't you say it was smoking and such before it broke? You may have just overheated. Head will be the important part.

It was doing this every single time I would start the car, the smoke from the exhaust said it wasn’t just overheating, I couldn’t see my house 10 feet away with how much smoke it created. There was oil in my exhaust, turbo intake, intake lines, and the intake manifold.