Resolved 2G Engine Rebuild

[RubyEclipse]

Hello everyone! I just purchased my 1996 Eclipse GST a few months ago, had some issues with a few different things. Most recent was car was smoking and running very uneasy, so I decided to pull the engine. I am going to do a full engine rebuild-ish, I bought new wisco heads, still looking at the rods I want, if there’s anything anyone thinks I should buy and upgrade I would love help! Trying to push more power but not an insane amount seeing how I want this to be more of a daily but not quite. Thank you guys!

 

[RubyEclipse]

The way its described, it sounds like either:
1. the coupler is too either too thick
2. the clamp isnt tightening enough or both.
3. Both 1 and 2
4. The coupler isnt long enough for the clamp to seat properly in front of the bead.

The pipe is beaded on both sides so shouldnt slide off if properly tightened.

Yeah I think you are correct, I will go get a better one today then.

 

[pauleyman]

Is the pipe beaded? I thought you cut a piece up and fabbed it?

 

[RubyEclipse]

Is the pipe beaded? I thought you cut a piece up and fabbed it?

No, I was going too but I was sent a new one from SixBolt.

Also, the new alternator parts for adjusting got in. What’s the order? Anyway have any pictures so I can make sure im correct?

I am trying to drill the bolt hole out on the arm piece, it’s very difficult. Do I need this little u bracket piece?

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[19Eclipse90]

It should be installed basically like shown in this link, as if you are looking down on it when installed: Alternator Tensioner Bolt

The nut at the top of the linked photo is not correct; that will be the lower, front water pump bolt.

Drill what? What are you trying to do? You need to get the curved bracket alone by itself. Then use the pieces you purchased to match up with the linked picture. The short cross bolt through the house shaped block threads into the ear on top of the alternator. The long bolt is the tensioner bolt and the “neck” of that long bolt (just below the head) needs to sit in the “u” of the curved arm.

 

[pauleyman]

I am trying to drill the bolt hole out on the arm piece, it’s very difficult. Do I need this little u bracket piece?

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I dont know what you have there. No power tools? Looks like it needs to be cut off at this point.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Well gentlemen. I think once again, my car is fried. Just got all the alternator parts, all of the belts on, fresh coolant. Let it warm up and idle, then I looked at the coolant and it looked like this , after I tried driving it thinking that was from it getting up to temp, she was running good, temp looked normal, sped up a little to quick apparently and the car crapped it self. I am very very sad not going to lie. I feel like I’ve had nothing but trouble and every time I fix something, something else breaks my heart and I feel back at square one. I am going to do a compression test and make sure, but I think her head gasket is done.

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Coolant looks like this at not very hot idle by the way.

I don’t even know the next step, I not going to lie, im a little tired of this stuff happening and getting more and more sick of it. Any help or advice would be awesome, thanks guys.

I think this happened because when the belt broke I still drove it just to get it home. I pulled over and waited quite a few times but, I think it stressed the engine too much and just overheated it.

So I bought a new head gasket, I need to get a ruler of sorts to make sure the head isn’t warped, do I need to do anything else when replacing the gasket…? Can you guys think of anything I might as well replace with the head off? I think I am going to look at getting a new AC compressor, mine is basically shot. The fan or whatever shoots the air, is so very weak. And it’s very warm, I know I have an AC leak somewhere I gotta find, and it’s getting in the hundreds so I will be fixing that very soon. Any and all help/advice would be much appreciated, thank you guys again for getting me this far.

 

[97Spyder702]

So I bought a new head gasket, I need to get a ruler of sorts to make sure the head isn’t warped, do I need to do anything else when replacing the gasket…? Can you guys think of anything I might as well replace with the head off? I think I am going to look at getting a new AC compressor, mine is basically shot. The fan or whatever shoots the air, is so very weak. And it’s very warm, I know I have an AC leak somewhere I gotta find, and it’s getting in the hundreds so I will be fixing that very soon. Any and all help/advice would be much appreciated, thank you guys again for getting me this far.

Just got done reading your log and I'm on the same boat. I had just installed a stage 3 clutch in my 97 GS-T. took it out to test it and it overheated because of the fans failing. It didnt overheat all the way just to about 3/4, 220 F and its been actin weird since. 90 psi on cylinder 1. So ill join you in your journey to redo the Headgasket

 

[RubyEclipse]

Just got done reading your log and I'm on the same boat. I had just installed a stage 3 clutch in my 97 GS-T. took it out to test it and it overheated because of the fans failing. It didnt overheat all the way just to about 3/4, 220 F and its been actin weird since. 90 psi on cylinder 1. So ill join you in your journey to redo the Headgasket

Yk, if I am not the only one it won’t be that bad ay? I think we got this. I’ve done it once, I just was an idiot letting it overheat that hot this many times without the water pump belt.

 

[CKOPOCT]

100% sucks that you're looking to redo the head gasket. I am so sorry, man.

As to what to replace while you are in there, since this is round 2 for you and everything is basically new, you shouldn't have to replace anything other than the gaskets themselves. I would replace any vacuum lines that you didn't replace previously - just because vacuum lines are cheap, any current ones were probably installed by Jesus, and you'll have easy access to them.

As to a ruler, you will definitely want to get a machinist's straight edge. Don't use a ruler, 3' level, or other thing like that. You overheated the engine. Iron and aluminum react differently to temperature. Iron holds heat a lot longer and is a stronger metal - so less prone to warping. Aluminum, however, cools much more rapidly and is softer, so it will warp. I am willing to bet that your head will need to be resurfaced. But to potentially save yourself the $, you can check the mating surface of the head using a machinist's straight edge. The head needs to be truly flat. Here's a link to how to check your head for warp:

How to check a head for warp

How to check a head for warp.The first thing to do is remove all carbon and old gasket material.Then with a machinist straight edge, Check all 8 positions. If .003 can be fit under the straight edge, the head needs to be resurfaced. Also Note the fire ring grooves from the head gasket...

www.dsmtuners.com

You should also use the straight edge to check the block. Being iron I doubt there is a problem, but it would be awful if you replaced the hg again and had the head milled only to have another problem due to an issue on the block side.

As to your A/C - I would recommend replacing all of the A/C o-rings. Who knows how old they are, and the rings are cheap. You can buy an A/C o-ring kit from your local chain parts store for less than $20. The o-rings are green.

You have 8 rings total in the system:
2 at the evaporator case (where the hoses attach to the firewall),
2 at the compressor,
2 at the receiver drier (small aluminum can-looking thing buried by the driver's side headlight), and
2 at the condenser (radiator-like thing at the front of the car).

Taking the hoses off and replacing the rings is easy peasy. 10mm socket and about 10 minutes and you're done.

When you replace the compressor, be sure to replace the receiver drier as well. The r/d is essentially a filter for your A/C system. Moisture is the death of A/C systems, and the r/d is basically a dessicant that traps and keeps moisture and other impurities out of the system. Since your system blows warm air, that means outside air (with its humidity, dust, donut crumbs, etc.) has gotten into the lines. The r/d is probably at the end of its usefulness, or certainly much less effective.

When you are done replacing everything and it's all buttoned up, you can't just add cans of freon from Autozone to charge the system. The system has to be drawn down to a vacuum. This both checks for leaks, and boils off and removes any moisture out of the system. There is a special procedure to follow. It's not technically difficult. Here's a youtube video by Chris Fix on the complete process. He does a good job of fully explaining everything.

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Of course, the easy thing to do is take the car to a shop and have them evacuate and charge the system. It'll cost you probably $100-$200. The other option is to purchase gauges, a vacuum pump, and freon and do the job yourself. You'll probably find the cost difference to be small by the time you buy all of the equipment. But you'll get an education.

 

[pauleyman]

When you compress the tensioner for the timing belt, do it slowly. If you didnt save the pin an Allen key will work. This time if you want to line up easier, line up all the marks on the gears, make a chalk or paint pen mark on the belt and the gear. When you reinstall just line up the marks again. I like to mark the belt with a "T" between the cam gears so I know where the top is.

 

[RubyEclipse]

100% sucks that you're looking to redo the head gasket. I am so sorry, man.

As to what to replace while you are in there, since this is round 2 for you and everything is basically new, you shouldn't have to replace anything other than the gaskets themselves. I would replace any vacuum lines that you didn't replace previously - just because vacuum lines are cheap, any current ones were probably installed by Jesus, and you'll have easy access to them.

As to a ruler, you will definitely want to get a machinist's straight edge. Don't use a ruler, 3' level, or other thing like that. You overheated the engine. Iron and aluminum react differently to temperature. Iron holds heat a lot longer and is a stronger metal - so less prone to warping. Aluminum, however, cools much more rapidly and is softer, so it will warp. I am willing to bet that your head will need to be resurfaced. But to potentially save yourself the $, you can check the mating surface of the head using a machinist's straight edge. The head needs to be truly flat. Here's a link to how to check your head for warp:

How to check a head for warp

How to check a head for warp.The first thing to do is remove all carbon and old gasket material.Then with a machinist straight edge, Check all 8 positions. If .003 can be fit under the straight edge, the head needs to be resurfaced. Also Note the fire ring grooves from the head gasket...

www.dsmtuners.com

You should also use the straight edge to check the block. Being iron I doubt there is a problem, but it would be awful if you replaced the hg again and had the head milled only to have another problem due to an issue on the block side.

As to your A/C - I would recommend replacing all of the A/C o-rings. Who knows how old they are, and the rings are cheap. You can buy an A/C o-ring kit from your local chain parts store for less than $20. The o-rings are green.

You have 8 rings total in the system:
2 at the evaporator case (where the hoses attach to the firewall),
2 at the compressor,
2 at the receiver drier (small aluminum can-looking thing buried by the driver's side headlight), and
2 at the condenser (radiator-like thing at the front of the car).

Taking the hoses off and replacing the rings is easy peasy. 10mm socket and about 10 minutes and you're done.

When you replace the compressor, be sure to replace the receiver drier as well. The r/d is essentially a filter for your A/C system. Moisture is the death of A/C systems, and the r/d is basically a dessicant that traps and keeps moisture and other impurities out of the system. Since your system blows warm air, that means outside air (with its humidity, dust, donut crumbs, etc.) has gotten into the lines. The r/d is probably at the end of its usefulness, or certainly much less effective.

When you are done replacing everything and it's all buttoned up, you can't just add cans of freon from Autozone to charge the system. The system has to be drawn down to a vacuum. This both checks for leaks, and boils off and removes any moisture out of the system. There is a special procedure to follow. It's not technically difficult. Here's a youtube video by Chris Fix on the complete process. He does a good job of fully explaining everything.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Of course, the easy thing to do is take the car to a shop and have them evacuate and charge the system. It'll cost you probably $100-$200. The other option is to purchase gauges, a vacuum pump, and freon and do the job yourself. You'll probably find the cost difference to be small by the time you buy all of the equipment. But you'll get an education.

Awesome awesome!! Thank you so much. I want to get a machinist straight edge but every one that i found is like 150 bucks.

When you compress the tensioner for the timing belt, do it slowly. If you didnt save the pin an Allen key will work. This time if you want to line up easier, line up all the marks on the gears, make a chalk or paint pen mark on the belt and the gear. When you reinstall just line up the marks again. I like to mark the belt with a "T" between the cam gears so I know where the top is.

I did keep the pin and for a good reason. I’ll definitely do that though this time.

 

[pauleyman]

Awesome awesome!! Thank you so much. I want to get a machinist straight edge but every one that i found is like 150 bucks.

I did keep the pin and for a good reason. I’ll definitely do that though this time.

How hot did this thing get and fir how long?

 

[RubyEclipse]

How hot did this thing get and fir how long?

Max temp, about 3-4 times. For 2-3 minutes if that. My car was not even half a mile down the road when the belt broke, both times. And then this last time it was just the final straw. Was still half a mile down the road, I saw the coolant and was worried but thought it was just my dirty pipes or something. Just went down the road, saw the temp absolutely skyrocket so I sat it down, waited for it to cool to less than half. Then very slowly, mostly in neutral, drove it home. Was very very dumb, I know. : ( but I couldn’t tow it when it was that close.

I’ve begun disassembling it. But before that, she would still start right up, and sounded decent. The only problem I saw was that it backfired the tiniest pop one time. Besides that it ran good. I know I did this one too myself, but I fixed the alternator belt and it didn’t have one squeak when running. : ) so that’s great news right?

 

[pauleyman]

Max temp, about 3-4 times. For 2-3 minutes if that. My car was not even half a mile down the road when the belt broke, both times. And then this last time it was just the final straw. Was still half a mile down the road, I saw the coolant and was worried but thought it was just my dirty pipes or something. Just went down the road, saw the temp absolutely skyrocket so I sat it down, waited for it to cool to less than half. Then very slowly, mostly in neutral, drove it home. Was very very dumb, I know. : ( but I couldn’t tow it when it was that close.

I’ve begun disassembling it. But before that, she would still start right up, and sounded decent. The only problem I saw was that it backfired the tiniest pop one time. Besides that it ran good. I know I did this one too myself, but I fixed the alternator belt and it didn’t have one squeak when running. : ) so that’s great news right?

Anytime you're learning its great.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Anytime you're learning its great.

I will definitely agree with you. But I am learning too much too fast. I want to enjoy what I’ve learned. : ( bought a newer and better head gasket instead of a cheaper one. I bought a fel - pro one it supposed to be a lot better.

I have now successfully pulled off the head, in record time. Took me about 2-3 hours, when last time it took me a few weeks to pull and fully rebuild. this is the condition it sits in, I am guessing you guys want me to take the head in to get resurfaced? I want to do it anyways to make sure the head isn’t warped. I never drained the oil, because that stuff is stuoid expensive. Do I need too now? I think left over gasket is gonna get in it so im thinking I do.

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So I did go ahead and take it to a machine shop. Having them pressure test, test my valve stems/seals/seating, then they’re looking for cracks, warpage, just getting it all checked out and make sure it’ll be good to go.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

So I did go ahead and take it to a machine shop. Having them pressure test, test my valve stems/seals/seating, then they’re looking for cracks, warpage, just getting it all checked out and make sure it’ll be good to go.

May the car gods have mercy on you.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Now is the time to replace ALL the coolant hoses, and put on your favorite clamps.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

100% sucks that you're looking to redo the head gasket. I am so sorry, man.

As to what to replace while you are in there, since this is round 2 for you and everything is basically new, you shouldn't have to replace anything other than the gaskets themselves. I would replace any vacuum lines that you didn't replace previously - just because vacuum lines are cheap, any current ones were probably installed by Jesus, and you'll have easy access to them.

As to a ruler, you will definitely want to get a machinist's straight edge. Don't use a ruler, 3' level, or other thing like that. You overheated the engine. Iron and aluminum react differently to temperature. Iron holds heat a lot longer and is a stronger metal - so less prone to warping. Aluminum, however, cools much more rapidly and is softer, so it will warp. I am willing to bet that your head will need to be resurfaced. But to potentially save yourself the $, you can check the mating surface of the head using a machinist's straight edge. The head needs to be truly flat. Here's a link to how to check your head for warp:

How to check a head for warp

How to check a head for warp.The first thing to do is remove all carbon and old gasket material.Then with a machinist straight edge, Check all 8 positions. If .003 can be fit under the straight edge, the head needs to be resurfaced. Also Note the fire ring grooves from the head gasket...

www.dsmtuners.com

You should also use the straight edge to check the block. Being iron I doubt there is a problem, but it would be awful if you replaced the hg again and had the head milled only to have another problem due to an issue on the block side.

As to your A/C - I would recommend replacing all of the A/C o-rings. Who knows how old they are, and the rings are cheap. You can buy an A/C o-ring kit from your local chain parts store for less than $20. The o-rings are green.

You have 8 rings total in the system:
2 at the evaporator case (where the hoses attach to the firewall),
2 at the compressor,
2 at the receiver drier (small aluminum can-looking thing buried by the driver's side headlight), and
2 at the condenser (radiator-like thing at the front of the car).

Taking the hoses off and replacing the rings is easy peasy. 10mm socket and about 10 minutes and you're done.

When you replace the compressor, be sure to replace the receiver drier as well. The r/d is essentially a filter for your A/C system. Moisture is the death of A/C systems, and the r/d is basically a dessicant that traps and keeps moisture and other impurities out of the system. Since your system blows warm air, that means outside air (with its humidity, dust, donut crumbs, etc.) has gotten into the lines. The r/d is probably at the end of its usefulness, or certainly much less effective.

When you are done replacing everything and it's all buttoned up, you can't just add cans of freon from Autozone to charge the system. The system has to be drawn down to a vacuum. This both checks for leaks, and boils off and removes any moisture out of the system. There is a special procedure to follow. It's not technically difficult. Here's a youtube video by Chris Fix on the complete process. He does a good job of fully explaining everything.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Of course, the easy thing to do is take the car to a shop and have them evacuate and charge the system. It'll cost you probably $100-$200. The other option is to purchase gauges, a vacuum pump, and freon and do the job yourself. You'll probably find the cost difference to be small by the time you buy all of the equipment. But you'll get an education.

Being of residential AC background, I can say for sure all of what is mentioned above is true.. the system must be sealed and pulled into a vacuum before refrigerant is introduced, if not, don’t even mess with it.. gauges and vacuum pump at the least for starting the job.. WORD..!!

 

[RubyEclipse]

May the car gods have mercy on you.

S

Being of residential AC background, I can say for sure all of what is mentioned above is true.. the system must be sealed and pulled into a vacuum before refrigerant is introduced, if not, don’t even mess with it.. gauges and vacuum pump at the least for starting the job.. WORD..!!

So I need new seals and stuff, how and what would I even replace?

 

[Justin DuBois]

Also a good time to fix the snapped off heat shield bolts in your exhaust manifold.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Gonna be honest, I totally forgot about that one. I was thinking of just leaving it, but I can try to pull it.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

S

So I need new seals and stuff, how and what would I even replace?

Well, seals and o rings for sure.. I wouldn’t go much past that (TXV, pump components), just be sure it will hold a vacuum for a decent amount of time..(over night), if it doesn’t then it’s time to chase down the leak

First thing I did was yank out the AC on my 2G, just extra weight and weight equals time, or speed.. if I need the AC I’ll drive the 2025 kicks that the wife drives..!!

 

[RubyEclipse]

First thing I did was yank out the AC on my 2G, just extra weight and weight equals time, or speed.. if I need the AC I’ll drive the 2025 kicks that the wife drives..!!

If I only l had that opportunity. it was just 105, and if I didn’t have my moms car it would have sucked. I can’t borrow my girls car because she needs it, but maybe one day. Before I really start caring about that, I just need to get it running decent. Lol that’s what really matters most to me, lemme tell you. Date nights are something else in that car. I love it to death no matter how much it’s been screwing me lately!

 

[Justin DuBois]

First thing I did was yank out the AC on my 2G, just extra weight and weight equals time, or speed.. if I need the AC I’ll drive the 2025 kicks that the wife drives..!!

If you trailer your car, and have AC in the rig, and you don't drive to the track when it's 90-100deg out - OK. Otherwise - You need AC not to die. I'm not saying you would run the AC on track, but a car that goes places with humans inside needs AC.

 

[RubyEclipse]

If you trailer your car, and have AC in the rig, and you don't drive to the track when it's 90-100deg out - OK. Otherwise - You need AC not to die. I'm not saying you would run the AC on track, but a car that goes places with humans inside needs AC.

I absolutely agree with this, and with the leather seats?!?! Broooo my legs get fried.