2007 Plans? What will you be working on in the offseason?

[Greg Collier]

Here's another change I plan for next year. Look at the rear pan on this Porsche...


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=68049&stc=1&d=1158896602

 

[silvah_gsx]

You sure you want that on a FWD? I'd imagine that kinda downforce in the rear would be detrimental when you use the pedal on the right.

 

[Greg Collier]

You sure you want that on a FWD? I'd imagine that kinda downforce in the rear would be detrimental when you use the pedal on the right.

With all of the extra hp I'm running now, the steering wheel is real light as the rear end gets a little squirrelly on the straights when I pull out from behind someone’s draft.

 

[my_precious]

ok this thread exploded. i skipped most of the posts on the second page to say this:

If you enjoy track driving, just drive your car and do regular maintenece like everyone else is saying. Brakes, oil changes, etc. Tires are a good thing to replace but screw it, im going to use my old eagle GT2s with 1/4 inch tread left because i cant afford new tires haha. when they have 0 tred left, i'll replace them. The other thing is, if you REALLY get into it, its simple, people move up in steps. Buy a truck and trailer. In my case, my parents have two big trucks and my neighbor has a trailer. For now i'll just drive back and forth but eventually im going to invest 800-1000 into a trailer. I might get lucky and have my dad pay for half or something. Another thing, a 3000lb DSM is not exactly built for road racing. Its AWD and heavy (not compaired with some other cars, but if you look at fast cars, like the lotus elise, power to weight is what counts). The lighter the car the less work you have to do to make it fast. I plan on buying a totally different car down the road when i actually get good at road racing, and will just use my talon for my daily driver around town. Nothing beats 350whp (i road in an evo8 with this much power once) and thats what im shooting for in my DSM. Of course though, if you are hell bent on making your DSM a track car, its going to cost a boat load, IE greg collier. Just look at his stuff, JIC coil overs for example, cost more than I paid for my car. But, remember that he didnt just buy all the parts and install them in a day, he started with a stock dsm and worked up like everyone else. Some things work some dont but the MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do is simply drive at the track. There are driving schools around the country and im not talking about spending 3000 dollars to go to skip barber. Gingerman raceway around her has CGI racing school and for 275 bucks they will take you out in your car for a day and teach you the basics and tell you where to go faster and what not. It doesnt matter if you drive a van or an enzo, the most important thing you can do is LEARN THE LINE. I am also friends with people from AutoEurope in Detroit, and they all have very good drives in their staff. So, next may (my goal for my car dead line) I am going to go to the first track day of 07 with Autoeurope and im going to "learn the line".

As for a different car, in a year or two I plan on buying something in the 2000-2200 lb weight range, RWD and prefferably mid engine. I'm looking at maybe a 1st gen MR2 or a Fiat X1/9 because a friend told me about them. However, when I do go to a different car, it'll be on a 10 grand budget and Most of that money will be put into the suspension components, NOT power. Of course I'll upgrade the engine as I go, but first things first you know...plus, you dont have to worry about blowing a tranny on the stock engine, especially since the car is so light. Regular maitence is the best thing for a "stock" car.

 

[my_precious]

greg reminds me of the porsche race engineers in the 60s hehe. MOBY DICK FTW

EDIT: Another thing i totally forgot about. If you get big into racing even if its just Track time and not wheel to wheel, invest in a good racing seat. People say that seats are for ricers when you dont have a fast car, but this is wrong imo. When you have your suspension gone through and you can really feel the g's in the corners like that 924s i road in, a seat is very important. Remember the car was completely stock engine wise. Dave said the same thing all you guys are saying too, get a car that runs good and do suspension modifications and just drive. They beat on that particular car for 3 years without problems. Anyways, the stock seats have very nice side bohlsters (sp?) in my first gen, but the Sparco Evo L's in that 924s held me in SO PERFECTLY and the sides were very comfortable. In the lotus elise, they have almost like a bar going down the sides of the seat by your hips, and still dont hold you in perfectly. After many laps in a friend's exige, my hips were hurting and I felt more tired than i did in the 924. I rode in the 924 and I didnt have to push down on the floor to hold me in, and it was sooooo comfortable i cant describe to you. If you plan on racing all day, INVEST IN A GOOD SEAT. I couldnt justify spending 600-800 dollars on a Sparco Evo seat but man, I tell you what, once i get done with my maintence mods and the rest of my plans, I am definately buying an Evo 2 or Evo L. I might even go with that BEFORE the turbo upgrade. Also, if your to the point where you trailer your car to events and you go to maybe 10 or more a year, I think it'd be a good idea to invest in a cage. Have a professional shop tig weld one up just for your car. Dave from AutoEurope told me the cage in the 924s was free for them because a shop "owed them a favor" but that it'd cost probably 1000 dollars roughly for the same. It wasnt SCCA aproved because it didnt have the bar by your legs nor did it have a bar behind the dash or w/e connecting either side. Point is, we went into corners at insane speeds and that cage made me feel very very confident in the passenger seat (even when we went off with two wheels due to oversteer hehe). Dave definately has that "slide or die" driving style.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Just to let you know, the evo is actually heavier than an AWD dsm.... So please dont start bitching (not saying you but I hear tons of excuses on this website) that your car is too heavy or whatever. Sorry the Evo does fantastic, and so can our cars. However, they are working on a much better platform (at first) because of their suspension setup, driveline setup, and chassis stiffness stcok compared to ours.

If you look at it, Archer Racing had great success with their 1gs until being classed out of everything. Now that classing is better for AWD turbo cars because we finally have a car (geeze after 11 years) that uses the same succesful platform, leightweight turbo awd in the USA.

 

[Greg Collier]

greg reminds me of the porsche race engineers in the 60s hehe. MOBY DICK FTW.

60's? Race engineers? MOBY DICK? THAT WAS ME!!!

 

[Evan K.]

My FWD 2g keeps up with and passes EVO's just fine.

Everyone asks if it's AWD. I love the look on their face when I tell them it's FWD

 

[Evan K.]

60's? Race engineers? MOBY DICK? THAT WAS ME!!!

I would sell my mother for a 935.

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

We actually have a superior suspension setup over the Evo. We have double wishbone and they have inverted McPherson struts. The problem lies in the slop in our stock suspension, swaybar sizes and springrates mostly. Evos have solid and urethane bushings throughout their suspension, but yes their chassis is stiffer. A DSM can very easily be made to outhandle an Evo, especially the USDM ones. They only seem to handle well stock due to their Advan tires..trust me, once I switched to a used set I bought off an Evo owner, I realized why the Evo grips so well stock. Once you get around Mitsubishi's "safety" suspension setup (understeer inhibiting swaybar sizes and springrates) and get some stiffer bushings, you'll be passing up Evos on the road course in no time, even modified ones.

 

[eclipse2via]

While I agree that the Advan A046 is the best dry weather OEM tire made, I have to say that's a pretty one sided view if you think it's the only thing that make an Evo a superior handler stock for stock. The biggest improvement IMO is the three LSD drivetrain and incredibly sensitive and fast steering. I can drive with the throttle so much sooner and harder in my Evo than my GSX that it's quicker even nearly bone stock. I know you are comparing a 2G but I don't think a 2G gets the power to the ground any better than a 1G. The Evo just flat turns. Yes you don't have to crank up crazy negative camber in a 2G but that doesn't overcome the superior drivetrain of the ACD equipped Evo.

 

[my_precious]

Well plus 1st gens do not have double wishbone suspensions either. And 3000 lbs is heavy, comapired to a 2000lb car. 1000 lbs is like 5 full grown guys in the car with you. I know evo's are alot heavier but im just saying that it costs alot to make a DSM go full out. put that same money into a lightweight car like a miata or 1st gen neon or anyhting under 2300 lbs and it'll go faster. It's not always about power as greg said with the honda cup challenge.

 

[drivemusicnow]

Well plus 1st gens do not have double wishbone suspensions either. And 3000 lbs is heavy, comapired to a 2000lb car. 1000 lbs is like 5 full grown guys in the car with you. I know evo's are alot heavier but im just saying that it costs alot to make a DSM go full out. put that same money into a lightweight car like a miata or 1st gen neon or anyhting under 2300 lbs and it'll go faster. It's not always about power as greg said with the honda cup challenge.

... It's all about balance.

you need to balance weight with power, weight with grip, power with reliability, predictability with performance... etc

Oh, and I think Greg C. has proved that DSMs can be made to be light (what is he, at like 1900 lbs with driver?). Yes, his is stripped beyond belief, however I think I can get mine down to 2700lbs or so without removing the dash, or too much metal. It's amazing how much crap is on these cars that you just don't need

 

[underradar92]

Here is the list as it stands... For the moment.
Get through this weekend's track day.
Tires to go with my new wheels.
Install toe eliminators
Install Polk F/control arms.
Make new R/lower control arms.
A real alignment (street/road course compromise).
A 6 pt bar.
Real (JIC?) coilovers.
Splitter.
Front brake ducts.
Toss ABS box and install adjustable prop. valve.
Adj. FPR.
Dejon smic or equivalent, and pipes.
3s maf.

So the car made it through the weekend intact, which reminded me that if I get ANY more tire grip, I'm gonna need seats and a harness to go with the aforementioned rollbar.
And a way to eliminate my 6k & up knock issue, aside from short-shifting.

 

[mavisky]

I'm guessing its knocking from leaning out? More base pressure will richen it out all across the map, otherwise just add some extra fuel up top or take a little timing out if that's causing the knock.

 

[my_precious]

...Greg C. has proved that DSMs can be made to be light (what is he, at like 1900 lbs with driver?).

Remember though he is FWD which isn't the ideal for road racing.

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

Remember though he is FWD which isn't the ideal for road racing.

 

[RusherRacing]

Well I haven't posted up my plans for this winter yet.

So here they go.

Not much with the CAR alot with the shop. New Air Compressor, Airtools, alignment rack, and metal fab equipment.

Go through the car, change out any remaining rubber hose and replacing it with hardpipe or braided line. Change out the seat again, not sure what I am going with thinking Kirkley Race Seat. Change bushings in the shifter linkage. Change swaybars out. Install brake proportioning valve, and change out to a less aggressive pad. Change all the graphics.

I kind of need to keep a fairly low budget this winter purchasing a new house and will have to outfit my new shop.

 

[Greg Collier]

Remember though he is FWD which isn't the ideal for road racing.

We decided to cancel the SPEED touring series, The USTCC series, Honda Cup Challenge, and all the other FWD series that exist in this world, because we weren't aware their cars weren't ideal for road racing. AND I'm going to send a letter of apology to all those Vipers, Porsches, Corvettes, Ferraris, Mustangs, Lotus (circus cars) Elise’s, etc. etc. and so on, that I passed either on the straights or in the turns because my car wasn't ideal for road racing....

 

[hairybeanbag]

Remember though he is FWD which isn't the ideal for road racing.

Maybe if all of us FWD guy's sell our cars and pool the money together we can buy an NSX to share for next season?

 

[RusherRacing]

Off topic
However I have found FWD racers typically to be better than RWD or drivers with $$$. FWD natural failer mode iks to push because you have exceeded the capabilities of the front tires. This is much safer than watching a high powered vette do loops down the straight away.

I forgot to add to my previous list TIRES TIRES AND MORE TIRES.

Actually 2 sets R6's and A6's to start the season.

 

[mavisky]

Aahh, take it easy on the kid. I think he's repeating what I told him earlier about FWD's not being ideal. You can sure as hell make one work and work well, but it's inherent overuse of the front 2 tires means it's always working at a partial disadvantage to other layouts.

I'm sure he didn't mean it in a negative connotation as I said almost the exact same words to him earlier today regarding me wanting to build a classic 240z in the future as I miss the handling balance of a well sorted rwd.

 

[Evan K.]

I will be installing my 2.4 and stripping the bejesus out of my car.

 

[drivemusicnow]

I will be installing my 2.4 and stripping the bejesus out of my car.

I'll show you stripped...



Actually my car is already pretty freaking stripped. I mean, it has to be a lot lighter without any interior, no gas tank, no wheels or suspension, no engine, or transmission right?

 

[Evan K.]

Well yeah you got me beat at this point