2007 Plans? What will you be working on in the offseason?

[mavisky]

http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/existenz1982/Solid Edge Models/

There is an album of some of the solid edge models I have been working on.

Good looking stuff, it's been awhile since I've messed around with any 3d modeling.

 

[Eagle 5]

Good looking stuff, it's been awhile since I've messed around with any 3d modeling.

Thanks. I get to play with it everyday so any down time I have I make stuff. Plus when I get any time at home.

crap so now I have to decide whether it is worth spending all the time and effort to install the ES bushings everywhere, or just go all out and do adjustable control arms with tie rod/spherical bearing ends.

I did all the front bushings. Other than the ones for the subframe (which was the biggest problem) they were not that bad. All we did was burn the old ones out with a torch since we did not have a press to use. I never installed the rear ones just because I didnt get around to it. But since I'm making new arms for the rear I wont need them.

 

[mavisky]

I've got some other more drastic plans such as custom molded front and rear splitters that I'm sure in the end I'll have the time, but not the funds to chase. The designs are in my head nad I've already worked out the mold buiding, and having looked at the underneath of the car I don't think it'd be hard to pull off on a fwd. Oh well, woulda, shoulda, coulda. Story of my life

 

[Ludachris]

Solid bushings sound good. Anyone know how tough they'll hold up against wear? Will they need to be replaced more often than poly bushings?

 

[Eagle 5]

Solid bushings sound good. Anyone know how tough they'll hold up against wear? Will they need to be replaced more often than poly bushings?

Are you taling solid bushings as in made of metal? Or like a material with a durometer of like 70 or 80 (not sure what durometer of poly is though) Metals one could just be made on a lathe and you could probably make them a press fit into the control arm. I would think a soild bushing would hold up like a heim joint would such as on the rear toe eliminators.

 

[underradar92]

I can only see a very few places where solid bushings can even be used, on a 1g anyway. A lot of points move in more than 1 plane. Thats where heim joints come in. The heim joints I'm using have PTFE (teflon), so they are self lubricating, and should last a pretty long time. I may make delrin bushings for the others, like the rear bushing on the front control arm. I wouldn't even recommend that without a solid front link or delrin there also. As for longevity, I can't say but I think, due to delrins self lubricating properties, that it would last longer than an aluminium one. I do like the idea of aluminium subframe attachment bushings.
How long do urethane bushings last?

 

[terefic181]

Just a quick note foe NASA PT followers, from the NASA Performance Touring and Super Unlimited (NASA PT and SU) Official National Rules, #28 and #29 under the SUSPENSION/BRAKES/CHASSIS section.

28) Metallic or mixed metallic and non-metallic replacement suspension bushings (except for sway bar end links and pillow ball camber plate joints already assessed points in 9) and/or 10) above) +3
29) Non-metallic replacement suspension bushings (except for sway bar end links already
assessed points in 9) above) +1

It cost an extra 2 points for metal or mixed bushings.

 

[my_precious]

for me:

-get clutch problems fixed SOON
-track pads and new rotors (for spring)
-eibach prokit springs and kyb AGX install (have parts already)
-poly motor mount and suspension kit insall (have)
-alignment
-save for 07 track fees, gas, and new brakes/tires

I want to get my current parts installed and working properly so I can race next year, and then just focus on the driver rather than the car. Possibly buy a big 16 turbo and install my dsmotorsports fmic before spring too! I'm not to worried about going faster right now as much as I am worried about going though. Hopefully I'll be spending as many days as possible at grattan, gingerman, and waterford.

 

[drivemusicnow]

for me:

-get clutch problems fixed SOON
-track pads and new rotors (for spring)
-eibach prokit springs and kyb AGX install (have parts already)
-poly motor mount and suspension kit insall (have)
-alignment
-save for 07 track fees, gas, and new brakes/tires

I want to get my current parts installed and working properly so I can race next year, and then just focus on the driver rather than the car. Possibly buy a big 16 turbo and install my dsmotorsports fmic before spring too! I'm not to worried about going faster right now as much as I am worried about going though. Hopefully I'll be spending as many days as possible at grattan, gingerman, and waterford.

Grattan is an interesting course. Clock wise about 5 turns (IIRC) are entirely blind. I'd definately place that as a more technical course as you need to be able to use your surroundings to mark braking points, and turn in points as in a couple causes you're already at full turn before you see where you're going. cool course though.

 

[mavisky]

I may be trying to make a trip up there to Grattan sometime next year as well on one of their test and tune days.

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

I've been holding off on road racing for a bit until I can get everything prepared. The nice thing is in Cali there is no offseason . I'll hopefully be going within the next couple months. Before I go, I'll need a few things:

-some kind of aluminum radiator (ebay?)
-external oil cooler
-relocate oil feed to head with built-in filter
-roll rear fenders
-hopefully pick up a set of 235/40 Toyo RA1s in time
-carbontrix hood vent

things I'd like to have for future events:
-full poly bushings
-flip drivers side compression control arm bushing
-8kg rear rate instead of my 6kg
-17x9's with 255/40s for a complete non-tuck setup
-front camber kit to gain a little camber and even it out, probably go with -2.5 F -1.0 R
-roll cage
-Quaife LSD

hmm...this is gonna be expensive.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Next year the main focus will be saving for track time...Over the winter, I will finish all of my projects that I have sitting around. I got into an accident 3 weeks ago and bent my front radiator support and everything up front, so its been an expensive and time-consuming project getting this thing back together.

List of projects that I have parts, just need to put on and tune
1. Aluminum Radiator
2. 13x4x2 Oil Cooler
3. Carbon Fiber Hood with Carbon Trix Vent
4. Ducting with the new front bumper
5. Battery Relocation to the rear
6. Front 4-piston Brembos with 13-inch rotors
7. Rear 2 piston Brembos with 12.3 rotors
8. Magnus Intake Manifold
9. Remove A/C Compressor as AC condensor got smashed so I had to remove that
10. Tune my dsmlink setup to work better with GM MAF
11. Actually tune for my Big(ha!)16g


Then the stuff I want or need to do over the winter
- 4-wheel alignment
- Cams
- Some type of coilovers
- 17x9 with 245/40/17s
- Roll Fenders
- Save for the track events

Anybody got any suggestions? I have dozens of autocross experience but my track knowledge is limited to two 30 minute sessions.

 

[Greg Collier]

Where I can appreciate all the hard work and money that everyone wants to put into their cars, when I started raced again five years ago I ran almost a season of HPDE’s in my “totally” stock Laser. (The idea was to get my wife use to the idea of being at the track and see first hand that it’s a fun sport.) I had good pads, good fluids, and a set of Kumho tires, and I had a lot of fun. There were no expectations of wheel-to-wheel racing and I had the opportunity to pass cars when the situation arrived. A stock turbo DSM does really well on a race track, believe me… I know!

Being competitive is a great concept, but the actuality of being surrounded by a group of competitive drivers can be intimidating. Usually when you run with the HPDE guys for a while you all get to know each other. As you progress through the ranks the same guys you ran HPDE’s with are the same guys you end up racing, or are at least on the track at the same time during a race. You feel comfortable and confident about your abilities as you progress with your driving skills. Even if you’re the most naturally talented driver, driving a car with extreme brakes and power can be more dangerous then good.

I guess the bottom line is; if the excuse that you’re not getting track time is because you’re spending all your money on upgrades, you really need to rethink what you’re doing. I see a lot of phenomenal drivers driving 120hp Hondas (Honda Cup Challenge), kicking ass on 300hp Porsches in the (GT class).

There’s a concept that if he can drive a piece of crap, just think what he could do with a real car?

 

[my_precious]

I was at grattan over the 7th and 8th for a lotus club meet. Auto Europe of detroit had an old 924s club racecar with a stock motor. All the money was into konis suspension and a roll cage etc. It was their budget beater car to have fun with. Well I talked to some of the guys and they ended up taking me out for a spin in it. 100-110 hp at the flywheel. It was smokin fast the funny thing though, was that there was a guy with a stroked c6 corvette putting 567hp to the wheels or about that. We ate him up in every single corner untill the strait and then he'd gain about 20 or so cars on us before we'd catch up again in the next set of turns. It was a blast but thats my story to how driver skill is much better than the car you drive.

 

[mavisky]

The best money you can ever spend on making your car go faster is always going to be #1 seat time, and #2 tires.

I've got a decent list because I've got the parts or my others are barely fit for the road and need replace/upgraded before I get on track. I'm sure after 15 years or so some of the other mods on these lists are for the same reasons.

 

[Slow old poop]

I guess the bottom line is; if the excuse that you’re not getting track time is because you’re spending all your money on upgrades, you really need to rethink what you’re doing. I see a lot of phenomenal drivers driving 120hp Hondas (Honda Cup Challenge), kicking ass on 300hp Porsches in the (GT class). There’s a concept that if he can drive a piece of crap, just think what he could do with a real car?

I agree 100%. For someone just starting out, spend your money on:

1. Making the car reliable. A stocker is much more reliable than a modded car.

2. Brake pads. Install a set of Carbotech Panther Plus race pads so you can stop all weekend. Stock pads will wear out in a few laps. (The Carbotechs also work on the street, so you don't have to change pads all the time)

3. Tires. Street tires get "greasy" when they get hot, and rarely come back. Buy a set of tires just for track use. A set of Toyo Proxes or Yokohama 032Rs will last all season.

4. Seat time. Go to as many events as you can afford. Get instruction every chance you can.

I went this route with a 3000GT and ran at least one event a month when I started. My race tires lasted a full season. I had numerous problems with brakes, but that's because a 3000T is a heavy car. I didn't have reliability problems until I modded it.

Once, when I blew the transmission in the 3000GT, I had to take my bone-stock winter-beater 92 Talon TSi with 135,000 miles, stock pads and cheap street tires on it to a 3000GT event where I had promised to instruct. That bone-stocker blew the doors off most of the 3000GTs there (until I corded one of those cheap street tires)

Point is, a bone-stocker is fast and reliable enough to get you lots of seat time. A modded car will break. (See Gregg's and my posts this season. Neither of us has finished a weekend without a fatal problem of some kind. )

You will get faster with seat time and instruction than you will with mods.

NASA has TT classes where a bone stocker can compete. You could be national champ in a bone stock car, and experience all the thrills of wheel-to-wheel racing at the same time.

Finally, you can drive the car to the track and back.

When you start modding, buy a pickup truck and a trailer too, because you'll need it to get the car home.

This is wisdom and experience talking here. Been there, done all that. The most enjoyable times I've had in my 6-7 years of doing HPDEs was with the stock 3000GT, because I could run all weekend and still drive it home.

Rich

 

[silvah_gsx]

Just a few things before I start doing more of Sam's track days:

Quaife LSD
SBR manifold
FMIC
rolled rear fenders
RRE rear sway bar
polyurethane motor mounts
2-piston Baer front brakes (13")

 

[my_precious]

It depends on the mods to I think. If done right and if you're not pushing the limit to much you should be able to run mods all day long. For example, the stock intercooler piping blows, as well as the stock intake. When you start pushing big boost is when it seems to become a problem.

 

[Slow old poop]

It depends on the mods too I think. If done right and if you're not pushing the limit too much you should be able to run mods all day long. For example, the stock intercooler piping blows, as well as the stock intake. When you start pushing big boost is when it seems to become a problem.

Boost problems aside, let's not forget all the other damage that can occur from modding the motor: increased temperatures under the hood, increased load on the cooling system, higher oil temps, increased vibration that loosens everything, and the stress and strain on all the tired iron in the brakes, suspension, frame, exhaust system, belts, and drivetrain. Mod the engine, and you will be replacing things like the radiator, belts, exhaust, springs, shocks, hoses, brakes, halfshafts, driveshaft, clutch, transmission, motor mounts, and so on, WHEN THEY BREAK. The really big problem comes about when you break things at the track, requiring a ride home on a trailer.

What many people fail to realize is that we are not making 11-sec passes here--we are running wide open throttle (WOT) for 20 minutes at a time. This is hard on a modded motor. ON top of that, the stress and strain of road racing breaks mechanical things.

Here's some things I broke at the track: starter, oil pan, battery box, alternator bracket, shift cables, exhaust hangers, turbo gasket (which melted the timing belt cover which broke the timing belt), O2 sensor, miscellaneous wiring, a spark plug wire, brake rotors (cracked three of them), tach, PCV plumbing, FMIC intercooler welds, and boost leaks everywhere. I also broke an ear off the motor where the tranny mounts, and broke off the oil squirters in my stroker motor. The radiator cap has to be safety wired, the turbo manifold bolts have to be safety wired, and the dipstick has to be spring-mounted, because they come loose or pop out. This is a modded car, obviously, and we are STILL sorting it. Fix one thing and break something else next week. Racing puts a lot of stress on the mechanicals.

The there are the large-scale, season-ending disasters that can occur, such as burning a piston, spinning a bearing, or suffering crankwalk in older, tired motors.

If you run a stocker, these problems are not nearly so severe.

Don't get me wrong here. I don't want to dissuade anyone from road racing. On the contrary: I want to see DSMs filling the track and blowing the doors off Z06es and M3s. What I DON'T want to see are those same DSMs coming in on the hook and going home on trailers.

What I see here in this thread are guys planning to run their first HPDEs next year, and talking about making go-fast mods.

Greg and I agree on this point: forget the mods, and spend that money on buying seat time and instruction. The car will last longer and you'll get faster faster. If you have $3,000 to spend for your first season, that buys you time and instruction at about six weekend events. After those six HPDEs, you'll be faster in your stocker than Billie Bob Big Boost is in his modded car.

Rich

 

[drivemusicnow]

Boost problems aside, let's not forget all the other damage that can occur from modding the motor: increased temperatures under the hood, increased load on the cooling system, higher oil temps, increased vibration that loosens everything, and the stress and strain on all the tired iron in the brakes, suspension, frame, exhaust system, belts, and drivetrain. Mod the engine, and you will be replacing things like the radiator, belts, exhaust, springs, shocks, hoses, brakes, halfshafts, driveshaft, clutch, transmission, motor mounts, and so on, WHEN THEY BREAK. The really big problem comes about when you break things at the track, requiring a ride home on a trailer.

What many people fail to realize is that we are not making 11-sec passes here--we are running wide open throttle (WOT) for 20 minutes at a time. This is hard on a modded motor. ON top of that, the stress and strain of road racing breaks mechanical things.

Here's some things I broke at the track: starter, oil pan, battery box, alternator bracket, shift cables, exhaust hangers, turbo gasket (which melted the timing belt cover which broke the timing belt), O2 sensor, miscellaneous wiring, a spark plug wire, brake rotors (cracked three of them), tach, PCV plumbing, FMIC intercooler welds, and boost leaks everywhere. I also broke an ear off the motor where the tranny mounts, and broke off the oil squirters in my stroker motor. The radiator cap has to be safety wired, the turbo manifold bolts have to be safety wired, and the dipstick has to be spring-mounted, because they come loose or pop out. This is a modded car, obviously, and we are STILL sorting it. Fix one thing and break something else next week. Racing puts a lot of stress on the mechanicals.

The there are the large-scale, season-ending disasters that can occur, such as burning a piston, spinning a bearing, or suffering crankwalk in older, tired motors.

If you run a stocker, these problems are not nearly so severe.

Don't get me wrong here. I don't want to dissuade anyone from road racing. On the contrary: I want to see DSMs filling the track and blowing the doors off Z06es and M3s. What I DON'T want to see are those same DSMs coming in on the hook and going home on trailers.

What I see here in this thread are guys planning to run their first HPDEs next year, and talking about making go-fast mods.

Greg and I agree on this point: forget the mods, and spend that money on buying seat time and instruction. The car will last longer and you'll get faster faster. If you have $3,000 to spend for your first season, that buys you time and instruction at about six weekend events. After those six HPDEs, you'll be faster in your stocker than Billie Bob Big Boost is in his modded car.

Rich

I agree; however, I'd like to make a counter point.

The situation that I came upon (as noted in the thread that I will slowly be updating) required something to be repaired (engine rebuild) It is better to do things right the first time, than it is to bring it back to stock, and repair it/mod it later. Now my situation is a little different, and I'm still getting some track time in different vehicles.

I think that there are certain things you should do before you take the car out on the track. Most of these aren't power adders, and some of these are debatable, but still, I don't want to see someone take their stock car that has 120K miles on it, and break parts because basic maintenence and preventative modifications weren't done. Not saying that you can't take that entirely stock car and be fine, I would just rather know that I've taken all the preventantive steps that I can.

Type of things I'm talking about:
Heat shields
safety wiring bolts (damn drilling those holes)
motor mounts (modified to be stiffer)
Timing belt (properly tensioned and make sure it doesn't need to be replaced)
etc.

Just wondering though, how did you break your alternator bracket? that thing is rather beastly.

 

[Slow old poop]

I agree <snip> ;
Type of things I'm talking about:
Heat shields
safety wiring bolts (damn drilling those holes)
motor mounts (modified to be stiffer)
Timing belt (properly tensioned and make sure it doesn't need to be replaced)
etc.

Just wondering though, how did you break your alternator bracket? that thing is rather beastly.

Don't know. I don't know how the O2 sensor or the shifter cables broke, either. Both were new. I wonder, sometimes, about the quality of replacement parts from Mitsu.

Your list is good. As to fixing/modding other things, I recommend going to race parts only when you need to replace a stock part. This includes motor mounts (go poly), downpipe (go for a good one), exhaust system (take out the cat, go 3 in.), radiator, intercooler, shocks, springs, turbo, etc. If you have to spend the money to fix something, buy racing parts instead of stock.

Like you say, if you have to rebuild the motor, might as well do it right at the gitgo with race parts. If you have to have a valve job, might as well get a P&P at the same time.

Otherwise, just replace parts and fix things to improve reliability. The first year, anyway. After getting six HPDEs under your belt, THEN mod the snot out of it.

Rich

 

[logic]

There's another aspect to this discussion that I think might be getting lost: telling someone who regularly visits DSMtuners and works on their car, "Don't mod it!" is like telling a crack addict not to hit the rock. Most of us here love working on our cars for the sake of working on them; we also happen to like racing from time to time. I know the standard advice for those getting started in any form of racing is "leave it stock, do basic maintenance, and tighten the loose nut behind the wheel", but for some of us, racing is only half of the equation.

Let's take my car: I'm doing my best to ensure that it passes tech for SCCA and NASA HPDEs, as well as allowing me to pass NHRA/NDRA/IHRA tech for the occasional trip to the drag strip (I'd like to say I've kept autocross in mind as well, but as long as you have four tires and aren't leaking something, you can probably find a place to play). I know I won't be competitive at any of these endeavors in current form, if only because of the classes I'd end up in, but I'm good with that. I also still have air conditioning and should be able to pass the state emissions tests, because I'm a sweaty pig who drives his hooptie around town from time to time.

Bottom line: the car is my hobby, both driving it and working on it. I might dedicate it to some particular type of racing at some point, but for now I'm just enjoying the process of building it, and I'm still desperately holding on to this idea of "it's still a street car, I don't have to trailer it to events". I think you might see a few other people in this thread thinking in the same vein.

(Besides, once we slap a new set of pads on the wagon, it'll make a fine stock-class autocross or track car. Always keep your options open, right? )

 

[asian312]

It's not about subsiding the urge to mod, believe me I own a DSM for the sheer joy of tinkering. The idea about leaving your car stock or stockish is to provide a stable platform for you to learn on. One that is less prone to failure and will allow you to place focus on the importants parts of a DE program...the driver.

If you have never done a DE program, I strongly urge you. I've owned 3 DSMs and the only regret I have is not trying a DE until my 3rd one. My first 2 (2G GST and 1G GSX) were 1320 cars with all sorts of juicy power upgrades. This 3rd one however is much different. After attending my first track day my goals and aspirations changed. Not stay everyone will have a revalation, but it will provide a different perspective to modding. Hell you may even say 'screw this' and advert from track driving all together. But at least you'll have an understanding and personal experience to why it is or is not something for you.

I miss the power as I watch my friends lay down faster track times at the strip. But as you, I have a daily driver, and my urge to mod was just redirected to another area of the car. My car stays extremly reliable and a little more fun to drive.

 

[underradar92]

At the risk of getting the gist all wrong, I don't think anyone is saying "don't mod yer ride". Its just the point of saying, stop putting up "road blocks" (I need more power mods or I won't be fast enough) and get to the track with a reliable, low maintenence car, and you WILL be suprised at how fast a stock to lightly modded DSM can get around a road course.

And a side bonus of a reliable car is... more laps, not 1/10 of a second LESS track time.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Some stock stuff has to go if you are getting serious though.

Point is, the first two times I went out on track, my car started overheating, and I was stock at the time, not even upped boost. Being full throttle or even part throttle sitting behind cars with thieir hot exhausts pouring over yours will make it start to overheat real quickly.

A few things are good to upgrade in terms of reliability.

- Pads obviously
- Tires again obvious
- a larger turbo, some of you may argue this, but 2gs come with t25s that produce so much heat even at 12 psi that it is beneficial to work a 16g at 14psi so it will produce less heat as a byproduct.
- Larger upgraded sidemount intercooler. Again keeping those intake temps down and reducing heat soak, which is about halfway down the straight with the stock ic
- an upgraded radiator, these things overheat too quickly!!! Definitely needs this.
- I am actually going with an oil cooler to help keep down temps too
- A good tuning hardware like dsmlink. You can record your entire track time and watch everything back in real time. It really is hugely beneficial. Also you can decide to run her a little rich or lean her out if she is running way too rich.
- Upgraded Blank rotors, not drilled, not even if their cast, they will still start to crack.


These sound like serious upgrades, but if you invest in those, and those only you will see a huge benefit in how the car runs. Personally my car stock couldnt handle it and was overheating so I needed a way to cool intake charge, cool coolant temps down, and cool oil temps down.

And yes, im running an evo3 oil filter housing with temperature so it will not put oil through if the temperature is not high enough.