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1G 1g tob noise & rpm drop - crankwalk

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,313
2,855
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
No clue tbh. Assembly error by me or not getting it align honed possibly. I'm going to have the machine shop assembly the rotating assembly this time.
I will ask these questions based on my experiences.
Have you checked your clutch hydraulics to make sure they're not locked? Are you running an extended slave?
I noticed you run an ACT 2600. I've just never been a fan. I fought mine and fought mine, pulled clutch pedal out of the car. I gave up.
I honestly believe hard clutches are a contributing factor.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,705
5,545
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
My auto car had .0025" end play and boy was that a good feeling when I checked it.
Tony, did you zero that dial indictor because I read it as .00735" according to the picture (which is out of tolerance by such a small amount) :idontknow:
 

AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
6,804
3,690
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
Have you checked your clutch hydraulics to make sure they're not locked? Are you running an extended slave?
I noticed you run an ACT 2600. I've just never been a fan. I fought mine and fought mine, pulled clutch pedal out of the car. I gave up.
I honestly believe hard clutches are a contributing factor.
Yes I can move the slave back in and not using an extended slave. I am using 2g master rod though. I have read most of the threads about the hard clutch but I don’t k oe tbh. They have harder pp’s so I’m not completely sold on it being the 2600 fault.

My auto car had .0025" end play and boy was that a good feeling when I checked it.
Tony, did you zero that dial indictor because I read it as .00735" according to the picture (which is out of tolerance by such a small amount) :idontknow:
Yes I did zero out the dial indicator and the needle is moving clockwise.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,705
5,545
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
I only asked because it looks like the dial has went one full revolution PLUS the .00245"
I was just curious is all. You probably "zeroed" it after it was pre-loaded so you got a good reading.

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AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
6,804
3,690
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
I only asked because it looks like the dial has went one full revolution PLUS the .00245"
I was just curious is all. You probably "zeroed" it after it was pre-loaded so you got a good reading.

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Yes. I just set it then zeroed it so the middle dial can be ignored
 

DSMPT

DSM Wiseman
2,180
1,765
Jun 12, 2014
Japan / Mexico, Arizona
I don’t see any contact marks on the cap side and it’s hard to tell on the crank. I’ll have to remove the crank to inspect it and the upper half of the block. Is this a procedure when assembling 4g blocks?

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I don't see it neither. The crank is probably not reusable since #3 journal sidewall is damaged but this block probably is. You should line hone/bore though, probably you can eliminate that uneven wear on the main bearings. Anyways should inspect everything.
 

AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
6,804
3,690
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
I don't see it neither. The crank is probably not reusable since #3 journal sidewall is damaged but this block probably is. You should line hone/bore though, probably you can eliminate that uneven wear on the main bearings. Anyways should inspect everything.
Yeah. I’m taking it apart this week. The only issue is my machine shop isn’t sure if he can hone it. I have to call him tomorrow to find out. It has to do with cutting the caps down and having the correct size to hone. 🤞
 

AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
6,804
3,690
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
You probably know this, but there’s a Jafro video from inside the machine shop that’s doing the line hone for his Kiggly girdle install. Maybe that would help them compare their equipment, or help you find another place possibly.
From what he asked, it sounds like the suitcase handle and/or the one bolt per side is the issue since he asked if the caps had two bolts per side. Either way I’ll know tomorrow whether he can do it or not
 

motomattx

10+ Year Contributor
3,767
1,503
Dec 9, 2010
wampum, Pennsylvania
So you are saying that you crankwalked a six bolt 4g63? I am interested in what oil you were using and what bearing clearances you were running? what was your oil pressure at idle vs at speed? there is no point in repairing it until you find out what caused it to begin with. I'm not sure how far you would be willing to drive but there are machine shops in NE OH that can take care of that block for you.
 

AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
6,804
3,690
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
So you are saying that you crankwalked a six bolt 4g63? I am interested in what oil you were using and what bearing clearances you were running? what was your oil pressure at idle vs at speed? there is no point in repairing it until you find out what caused it to begin with. I'm not sure how far you would be willing to drive but there are machine shops in NE OH that can take care of that block for you.
20/50 vr1. I forget the rod clearance but the mains were .002 - .0017. By the looks of the mains, I’m guessing not having it align honed and using kiggly girdle caused this. But that’s just my guess. Also didn’t check end play when I originally assembled it. Oil pressure was spot on until one of the rear balance shaft bearing came loose. Then went BSE and oil pressure after that was high above idle to 3k. Fully warmed up, idle was 18-20psi, 58psi at 3k, and mid 80psi by 8k.

What’s the name of the shop?
 
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AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
6,804
3,690
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
That’s some thick oil indeed.
I was going to switch to 10/40 after I use up the 20/50.

What was the mileage on this before you tore it down?
130k blew a hg and decided to build the bottom end. On this set up, roughly 3k miles. Original bearings all look mint when I took it apart. Very minimal wear.
 

curt-s

Supporting Member
1,609
377
Dec 21, 2008
Winnipeg, MB_Canada
Have you mic'd the thickness of the thrust bearing halves? I'd be curious to compare each, both inner (nearest the crank) and outer (nearest the block and girdle) parts of the thrust surface, to see if there's a difference between the halves. Could indicate that they weren't set flush correctly or if it wore at an angle.

Ever since I got that package of ACL Race bearings that had tool marks.. a gouge, rather.. on the bearing surface and the mains were too wide to fit the crank, and yet they were packaged like that, I never tried them again.
 

AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
6,804
3,690
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
Have you mic'd the thickness of the thrust bearing halves? I'd be curious to compare each, both inner (nearest the crank) and outer (nearest the block and girdle) parts of the thrust surface, to see if there's a difference between the halves. Could indicate that they weren't set flush correctly or if it wore at an angle.

Ever since I got that package of ACL Race bearings that had tool marks.. a gouge, rather.. on the bearing surface and the mains were too wide to fit the crank, and yet they were packaged like that, I never tried them again.
I will mic both halves when I pull it apart and also try different bearings this time around. Didn’t notice any imperfections when I installed these bearings. Installation error? Possibly as this was my first build and I did not pry the crank forward before torquing the mains along with checking end play.
 

motomattx

10+ Year Contributor
3,767
1,503
Dec 9, 2010
wampum, Pennsylvania
So my shop does not have a mandrel small enough for the mains. @motomattx lmk what the name of that shop when you get a chance. Guess they’re familiar w 4g’s?
Jenkins motor parts. https://www.facebook.com/pages/category/Automotive-Parts-Store/Jenkins-Motor-Parts-600911010048851/

I use 20W50 also and always have, VR-1 at that, so I'm going to say that oil wasn't the problem, I am more prone to think that there was damage done when your balance shaft bearing came out and you lost oil pressure, at least to some extent although there could be other contributing factors, the thrust bearing is not pressure lubricated, it only gets the runoff from that main bearing as it acts like a controlled oil leak dripping onto that thrust area. I am from the camp that believes that part if not a large part of the issue in the 2g was the goofy clutch master cylinder that could go out of adjustment and keep pressure on the thrust bearing, effectively wiping away any lubrication like a scraper. In a 1g though, you wouldn't have that same issue unless your using a 2g master. I also was suspicious that the 2g crankshafts were not properly hardened. You want your main bearing clearance to be looser than your rod bearings, especially the thrust bearing, so as to not starve the thrust.
 
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