1998 Eagle Talon street build monster

[BlackKnight2013]

Building a 1998 Eagle Talon 420a engine for a street build and a weekend racer. Started the build in 2011. Already built the block most of the way. Purchased a long block assembly from a junk yard to tear down and to build up while my car is still together to use instead of having no way to get around. I have built the block with callies compstar 2.2 stroker crank, eagle h-beam rods, 1/4" thick side wall super alloy wrist pins with anti gaul coating, cp pistons (88 mm) with coated piston tops, bored .020 over, cleviete p series mains and h series rod bearings (tri metal), arp main studs and head studs, factory oil pump, factory water pump. painted the block black.

Cylinder head is built with crower stage 2 turbo grind camshafts, AEM 5 spoke cam gears, upgraded pt cruiser rocker arms, crower titanium spring retainers and spring kit, PEP stainless steel valves 1mm oversized swirled polished heads chrom plated steams and steallite tips, BLE solid lifter conversion kit, and bronze valve guides.

head and block both hot tanked, checked deck flatness, line bores.

.030" thick MLS head gasket.

Coated piston tops with teflon coating. currently waiting on a crankshaft scrapper and windage tray set up. ordered a timing belt tensioner conversion kit to go from hydraulic to mechanical. Have an ati super damnper under driven balancer.

pistons are 8.5:1 compression. final compression is 8.35 to 1

Head has been ported and polished to stage 3 specifications. intake ports flow 310 cfm and exhaust flows 285 cfm. combustion chambers cc out to 50cc's

Build videos on youtube channel: thecartuner007

 

[TSicktalon]

Sooo... is this gonna stay N/A or go FI? And is your HP/TQ in your avi for the built motor? Thats a ton of torque for such small hp...

 

[BlackKnight2013]

the motor is going forced induction when its finished. the hp and tq are for the stock factory motor that still in my talon. the new motor is still on the stand in my garage. the motor i am building. the motor has a more tq than hp from factory to begin with. im shooting for about 500 hp with the new motor

i messed up when i entered my tq number i thought i had pushed 1 but it put a 2. i fixed it for all the viewers out there.

 

[dsmaz]

nice build man. you should put it on the dyno before that motor gets turbo'd to see where its at. do plan on going lsd?

 

[buildingit]

hi im new here and a noob to dsm scene. i have a 95 gst which suposably has a 1g 6 bolt block with a 2g 7 bolt head, with a crank balance shaft delete, and a 16g turbo. Im pulling the motor out to have the block resurfaced. I plan on building the motor to an extent she is my street project for a little weekend racer/ daily driver. Im looking to hit the high 300 to 400 hp range. Any advice or insight would help like i said im new to dsm.

 

[BlackKnight2013]

nice build man. you should put it on the dyno before that motor gets turbo'd to see where its at. do plan on going lsd?

thanks man. i want to put it on the dyno with the turbo. but i already know it will make upwards of 200 hp without turbo from all the calculations i have done. but thats only fantasy. the reality of it won't be until its on the dyno. i just got my timing belt tensioner conversion kit today to go from hydraulic to mechanical. hope this works well.

hi im new here and a noob to dsm scene. i have a 95 gst which suposably has a 1g 6 bolt block with a 2g 7 bolt head, with a crank balance shaft delete, and a 16g turbo. Im pulling the motor out to have the block resurfaced. I plan on building the motor to an extent she is my street project for a little weekend racer/ daily driver. Im looking to hit the high 300 to 400 hp range. Any advice or insight would help like i said im new to dsm.

first off welcome to the dsm community. i am a newbie on this site but i have been tuning 420a's since i was 16. i don't know much on the 4g63's and 4g64's. i can tell you make sure the block is in good condition. using a 6 bolt block and crank will be a big help. 7 bolt blocks and cranks have a nasty crank walking issue. if your going to build the motor for the power i would suggest acl tri metal bearings or cleviete bearings. make sure your connecting rods are forged upgraded and also upgraded forged pistons. it will be a good idea to invest into looking into a good forged crankshaft. building the head mildly will help as well. if you figure this, an engine is a big vacuum pump that moves a lot of air. the better an engine can breath (voliumetric efficiency) the more power it will produce. and when selecting a turbo i highly recommend going for cfm (cubic feet per minute/meter) instead of pressure. Your engine will reach that power level easily with the right fuel system set up and plug and play ecm.

hi im new here and a noob to dsm scene. i have a 95 gst which suposably has a 1g 6 bolt block with a 2g 7 bolt head, with a crank balance shaft delete, and a 16g turbo. Im pulling the motor out to have the block resurfaced. I plan on building the motor to an extent she is my street project for a little weekend racer/ daily driver. Im looking to hit the high 300 to 400 hp range. Any advice or insight would help like i said im new to dsm.

anytime i build something i always build the engine first and then the fuel system and engine controls around the engine so i know i am getting the best quality of performance that i can get. so when going for power i can't stress enough on using quality parts instead of cutting corners. when i build my engines i never cut corners. its either done right or it doesn't get finished at all. so three things to remember, build the engine with quality internals that will take the abuse of your desired power levels, two: enough fuel flow to support then engines hunger for fuel and to keep up with the power demand and third have a good ecm tune to keep the engine from detonating and knocking under boost conditions and don't put too much timing advance in or you will hurt your performance and not enough timing advance will hurt you as well. its all in the trial and error process to find the butter zone.

nice build man. you should put it on the dyno before that motor gets turbo'd to see where its at. do plan on going lsd?

sorry i didn't answer your question on the lsd. yes i am going to use an lsd but it wont be in the stock trans. i am doing a trans conversion that isn't widely used or known about. it will work and hold all the power i want it to. only thing is its going to cost me about 7k in the hole... but its worth it.

 

[jjw205]

i am doing a trans conversion that isn't widely used or known about. it will work and hold all the power i want it to. only thing is its going to cost me about 7k in the hole... but its worth it.

Confused. Elaborate?

You could buy a modded 2G AWD with 400+HP for $7,000.

 

[BlackKnight2013]

Confused. Elaborate?

You could buy a modded 2G AWD with 400+HP for $7,000.

i know i could buy an awd for that much. but i like a bigger challenge than switching over to a 4g63 engine and transmission.

the transmission i am using is going to be out of a 2003 to 2005 dodge neon srt4. that 5 speed transmission bolts right up; uses the same clutch spline count and diameter. the only thing i need to fabricate are three mounts. the starter is in the same location and i have a way to use my current master cylinder and hookin up the srt4 neon slave cylinder. then custom made cv axles to complete the build. with this trans i will be able to hold up to 700 plus hp and all the torque i need with the upgraded internals and shift extender. yeah i know im going to catch some flak for doing it but its worth a try.

 

[jjw205]

Ok. I don't know much about the SRT4 trans, hopefully it comes with a decent LSD.

I'm just saying, with that platform you are limited to being FWD, which I hated at around 300WHP, almost undriveable unless in a straight line with slicks.

I swapped to AWD a few months back, and would never drive a high HP FWD car again. Night and day. But I'm sure the FWD guys will have their opinions.

 

[BlackKnight2013]

Ok. I don't know much about the SRT4 trans, hopefully it comes with a decent LSD.

I'm just saying, with that platform you are limited to being FWD, which I hated at around 300WHP, almost undriveable unless in a straight line with slicks.

I swapped to AWD a few months back, and would never drive a high HP FWD car again. Night and day. But I'm sure the FWD guys will have their opinions.

the srt4 trans comes with an lsd from the factory in it.
i know i am limited to what i can do with the amount of horsepower. i know i will run into a lot of wheel spin getting on it. but i hope i can make up for it somehow. still figuring out some kinks in my plans.

awd are good for high hp and known for good traction. but i will say this, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. i think it mainly comes down to personal preffrence and choice. for me its taking a 420a and trying to do what no one else has done to make good number and beat cars on the strip. although i have started to think of getting an awd model but undecided still. gotta finish my other project first though.

 

[buildingit]

Confused. Elaborate?

You could buy a modded 2G AWD with 400+HP for $7,000.

you can buy anything... but its not the same as when you build it yourself... you establish a certain relationship with the car that you cant get from anything else... and as for the fwd it can with the right setup handle just as well as the awd with the right foot on the pedal, its all throttle control.

ok thanks im pretty good with the mechanical aspect, i also was wondering about the crank balance delete i dont know much about the upgrade and i heard that you need to have the rotating assembly balanced, is that true?.. and the 7 bolt head onto the 6 block ive heard requires a lot of modification im hopping whoever did this didnt cut any corners, the block seems to be in good condition the car was running fine until my timing belt tensioner went bad, its been parked and taken apart since then. but i kno its running a stock tune as well so it def was running to full potential with the 16g turbo and bigger injectors dont remember the cc on them but they dont do much on a stock tune anyway

 

[BlackKnight2013]

you can buy anything... but its not the same as when you build it yourself... you establish a certain relationship with the car that you cant get from anything else... and as for the fwd it can with the right setup handle just as well as the awd with the right foot on the pedal, its all throttle control.

ok thanks im pretty good with the mechanical aspect, i also was wondering about the crank balance delete i dont know much about the upgrade and i heard that you need to have the rotating assembly balanced, is that true?.. and the 7 bolt head onto the 6 block ive heard requires a lot of modification im hopping whoever did this didnt cut any corners, the block seems to be in good condition the car was running fine until my timing belt tensioner went bad, its been parked and taken apart since then. but i kno its running a stock tune as well so it def was running to full potential with the 16g turbo and bigger injectors dont remember the cc on them but they dont do much on a stock tune anyway

the crank balance is actually called a balance shaft. it uses weights to counter act any unwanted vibrations from the crankshaft. and yes you need to have the rotating assembly (this includes your rod bearings, rods, pistons, piston pins, piston pin locks if applicable, flywheel and clutch if you have a clutch your crank timing sproket and harmonic balancer) balanced when you do the balance shaft eleminaion. when you do the modification you also have to block off the oil feed holes that feed oil to the balance shaft otherwise you will lose oil pressure and risk damaging your whole engine because the balance shaft creates the restriction. without the balance shaft in you need to create a simulated restriction. so a way to do this is to take the bearings out and turn them 90*and re-install the bearings. you will have to get a few caps. there are balance shaft eliminator kits out there. you can start with researching that. with using the 7 bolt head i would check into what it takes for modifications to run that and double check it all. the amount of power the car makes with that set up is limited by what the factory ecu will allow due to mapping table perameters ( for example your fuel and ignition tables).

another picture of a part i had bought. cryo treated and sfi approved flywheel and clutch. holds 520 ft lbs of torque.

my ati super dampner and aem timing gear. i will point out that the timing marks for advance and retard are actually incorrectly placed. so the retard side is actually advancing and adcanving is actually retarding.

 

[BlackKnight2013]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6g5zAMWh4E&list=PLs244WfaAT68_aTLcxbUt45SHGjduYhaL]420a rebuild - YouTube[/ame]

playlist of my engine build

 

[TSicktalon]

How is a SRT4 transmission going to cost 7k?

 

[BlackKnight2013]

How is a SRT4 transmission going to cost 7k?

because its a built transmission with all the upgraded parts i need and with the custom axle cost and fabrication. transmission is 5k with freight and axles are 2k more and fabrication is free because i am doing it myself.

 

[BlackKnight2013]

Sooo... is this gonna stay N/A or go FI? And is your HP/TQ in your avi for the built motor? Thats a ton of torque for such small hp...

correction: i looked at my dyno sheet and it is at 230.2 tq. i know its a lot but thats what was measured by the dynometer.

 

[BlackKnight2013]

new build video up on my youtube.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMjSiKmYCxY]420a Performance Engine Buuild Pt 23 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[BlackKnight2013]

Finally got my crank scrapper and windage tray setup with baffles yesterday october 25th 2013. will be doing another video of the install within a week or so. need some tools from work that i forgot to grab.

 

[BlackKnight2013]

instillation video is up and ready for viewing of the crankshaft scraper set up with windage tray and baffles. link is: [ame=http://youtu.be/arb5quRCkKA]1995 to 1999 Dodge Neon 2 0L Crank Scraper Instillation - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TSicktalon]

Just a heads up, The 03 SRT4 transmission and a few early 04's were non-LSD. Most 04's and all 05's were LSD.

 

[Beaubo]

I have seen several SRT4's on craigslist for $7,000 for a complete running vehicle. Why not buy a complete vehicle take the transmission and part out the rest and recoup your money back? Then you will have the transmission you want for free.

 

[95talongirl]

Most srt4's I've seen for sale have transmission issues. They have some inherent flaws. Even on lower mile ones they tend to grind 3rd. So just buying the car for the trans is a gamble. For $7grand it sounds like you are going for a dogbox? I know I saw one of those for sale about a week ago for $6grand and is rated for north of 1000hp.

Best of luck with the build! Love seeing Fast fwd cars!

 

[Slo2gen]

They do have issues but they are still a stronger transaxle than the NVT-350, the big issue however isn't getting it to bolt up, it does. Its getting the transaxle to fit inside the engine bay. The trans is much bigger than the 350 so space is the issue. There was a guy on here that made it work but it wasn't as simple as making 3 mounts, it was removing part of the frame rail and modifying it to not only fit the trans but move the mount over and get the driveline level so it would not run into any issues with alignment or binding under suspension loads.

 

[Dsmkauai]

dude if that's how you torque the cam gears down. I highly suggest you take your motor to someone who really knows what they are doing and ask them to go over your motor!! FYI there are what look like bolts molded into the cams so you can place a big wrench on them to hold while you torque or there is a hole you can use to have a little rod hold them. How are you tightening the flywheel and crank pulley bolts? If your not carful your motor isn't going to last 10miles!

 

[BlackKnight2013]

Just a heads up, The 03 SRT4 transmission and a few early 04's were non-LSD. Most 04's and all 05's were LSD.

thanks for the tid bit, i already knew that some came with lsd's and some didn't. ive done my research for the swap. but i do appriciate your input.

Most srt4's I've seen for sale have transmission issues. They have some inherent flaws. Even on lower mile ones they tend to grind 3rd. So just buying the car for the trans is a gamble. For $7grand it sounds like you are going for a dogbox? I know I saw one of those for sale about a week ago for $6grand and is rated for north of 1000hp.

Best of luck with the build! Love seeing Fast fwd cars!

i know i could buy the car for that much and i agree with you that for the trans it is too much of a gamble and thats why im going with brand new for that kind of money. i know a few ppl who build them for that kind of power too so im with you. and i don't think they make a dog box for the 420a engine but its something i haven't considered yet.

I have seen several SRT4's on craigslist for $7,000 for a complete running vehicle. Why not buy a complete vehicle take the transmission and part out the rest and recoup your money back? Then you will have the transmission you want for free.

that may be true but for a used trans its a gamble on its condition.

They do have issues but they are still a stronger transaxle than the NVT-350, the big issue however isn't getting it to bolt up, it does. Its getting the transaxle to fit inside the engine bay. The trans is much bigger than the 350 so space is the issue. There was a guy on here that made it work but it wasn't as simple as making 3 mounts, it was removing part of the frame rail and modifying it to not only fit the trans but move the mount over and get the driveline level so it would not run into any issues with alignment or binding under suspension loads.

the srt4 trans is stronger than the nvt-350 and i am aware of the modifications needed actually. i know 3 mounts are a big issue and also modifying part of the fram is another issue. but i haven't completely set my mind on the trans yet. im still concentrating on the engine before the driveline.

dude if that's how you torque the cam gears down. I highly suggest you take your motor to someone who really knows what they are doing and ask them to go over your motor!! FYI there are what look like bolts molded into the cams so you can place a big wrench on them to hold while you torque. How are you tightening the flywheel and crank pulley bolts? If your not carful your motor isn't going to last 10miles!

thanks for your concern but remember its my motor and i am an ASE certified mechanic. and there was no place on these cams for that, if you have the crower cams that i have you would kno, so i had to substitute something that would work ok. and the flywheel isn't on yet and those are going to be done differently. the harmonic balancer was installed with a pully intaller.

Most srt4's I've seen for sale have transmission issues. They have some inherent flaws. Even on lower mile ones they tend to grind 3rd. So just buying the car for the trans is a gamble. For $7grand it sounds like you are going for a dogbox? I know I saw one of those for sale about a week ago for $6grand and is rated for north of 1000hp.

Best of luck with the build! Love seeing Fast fwd cars!

and btw thanks for the wish of luck. and can i also inquire about the dox box your talking about?? i'd like to look into that a little if possible.