10.3 on Fp68 HTA 16G

[GDNF2ET]

Will the new turbo be BB ? I've noticed that you fab up your own pipes, have you considered re-clocking the turbo ? The benefits would be shorter piping, a LiL less weight and it would get that J-pipe away from the hot manifold..I'm considering that myself..With the FP manifold, my J-pipe almost touches it..

Congrats to all you've accomplished so far and thanx for sharing your details...

 

[rEclipserGST]

So I went through the whole thread and didn't find anything about the turbo holding 30psi to the redline, other than porting. Is it, really, what it takes?

There's no BOV to leak from either....

 

[LucasEnglish]

The right porting is key and running a big spike. The intake is our but the rest of the IC and Piping is all off the shelf ETS stuff.

The new turbo will not be BB. I am sure there is lots of little stuff I could do that may or may not make a difference but I work on this car as little as possible and try and keep it simple and do things I know will make a difference.

Was just a stock single plate. We are doing double plates now. Our new trans will have fresh clutches and the same shift kit we run in our 8sec auto. Hopping I can get firmer OD shifts. The nose of the Converter did not look the best from the converter wobbling around. So at a min the old trans needs a new pump and Converter. Cant complain since this is the end of the 3rd season on this trans. Hoping its not the beginning of the end for my good luck with the drive train.

wow, I just can't get over how quick this car runs 60', 330', and 1/8mile ETs. It's just crazy. If there is any car that makes the case for automatic trans, even on "mild" power levels, this is it. We are going about the same mph (105/131) but you guys are killing me by over a half second of ET! Every time there is an improvement or update on this car, my auto-envy increases another notch.

Sucks on the flexplate failure...did it take out "everything" with it? Were you running one single flexplate or stacking two stockers double thick?

What's the plan for changes/upgrades to the new trans setup?

 

[Phil1320]

The right porting is key and running a big spike. The intake is our but the rest of the IC and Piping is all off the shelf ETS stuff.

The new turbo will not be BB. I am sure there is lots of little stuff I could do that may or may not make a difference but I work on this car as little as possible and try and keep it simple and do things I know will make a difference.

Was just a stock single plate. We are doing double plates now. Our new trans will have fresh clutches and the same shift kit we run in our 8sec auto. Hopping I can get firmer OD shifts. The nose of the Converter did not look the best from the converter wobbling around. So at a min the old trans needs a new pump and Converter. Cant complain since this is the end of the 3rd season on this trans. Hoping its not the beginning of the end for my good luck with the drive train.

I'm curious to know what the "right porting" is as far as your set up goes ???

 

[AlphaVision]

I'm curious to know what the "right porting" is as far as your set up goes ???

Yeah, me 2 ...

 

[forcefed86]

It's a measley $75 plus shipping to find out.

You'd think the 14b record guys would be all over this.... I was all excited to send mine off but it has already been ported by FP.

 

[Phil1320]

It's a measley $75 plus shipping to find out.

You'd think the 14b record guys would be all over this.... I was all excited to send mine off but it has already been ported by FP.

Well, that's why I'm asking.....I'm still running a 6cm housing that is ported pretty crazy.....but I'm on my way to a 7cm housing......which is also already ported, but, was wondering what he was referring to or what he wants to share here on the forum....

 

[AlphaVision]

And I live pretty far away to be able to send it

 

[SBstar]

Turbo is ported to create boost creep....As his level there really isn't boost control just lock the wg shut and see how high you can get the boost...

I would assume that unlike when most of us port, porting out the opening to the wastegate, they do the opposite and ensure they port so that as little airflow as possible will go towards the wastegate flapper. Am I right

 

[Phil1320]

I would assume that unlike when most of us port, porting out the opening to the wastegate, they do the opposite and ensure they port so that as little airflow as possible will go towards the wastegate flapper. Am I right

makes sense, but if the flapper is closed, I don't see what the difference is really in a 1/4 pass, to improve boost response, I could see that, but that's not relative here in my opinion. I just was interested if there was a certain technique or if they've found out that overporting can lose power on the top end as in is there a point where exhaust velocity actually slows with the small frame turbos.....if ported too much....my opinions only here, they obviously know things I don't for sure, and you may be dead on....

 

[forcefed86]

makes sense, but if the flapper is closed, I don't see what the difference is really in a 1/4 pass, to improve boost response, I could see that, but that's not relative here in my opinion. I just was interested if there was a certain technique or if they've found out that overporting can lose power on the top end as in is there a point where exhaust velocity actually slows with the small frame turbos.....if ported too much....my opinions only here, they obviously know things I don't for sure, and you may be dead on....

I was instructed to look at a housing and told it would pretty much be self explanatory. Your just porting it to bypass the WG hole. So I checked out one of my junk turbos last night. To me, it seems you'd just want to leave an initial high spot entering the turbo before the WG hole. Then port a low spot on the opposite side farther down stream. This would promote the gas flow to "jump" the hole. Then you would just port the rest of the housing as normal making sure to leave the high spot before the WG hole. This will help exhaust flow around that area.

Here are a few pics.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I could be totally off base, but thats how It made sense to me...

 

[Phil1320]

I was instructed to look at a housing and told it would pretty much be self explanatory. Your just porting it to bypass the WG hole. So I checked out one of my junk turbos last night. To me, it seems you'd just want to leave an initial high spot entering the turbo before the WG hole. Then port a low spot on the opposite side farther down stream. This would promote the gas flow to "jump" the hole. Then you would just port the rest of the housing as normal making sure to leave the high spot before the WG hole. This will help exhaust flow around that area.

Here are a few pics.



I could be totally off base, but thats how It made sense to me...

Definitely makes sense......hmmmm.......

 

[LucasEnglish]

You guy got it. We do port the whole thing out for flow and then focus alot on the bottom shelf. So it will look kinda like stock but much bigger and smooth. The WG still opens and needs to open or the back pressure will just be to high. Also by porting this way there is less turbulence since a major portion of the air does not hit the ledge anymore.

Also like I have said before the Auto really helps with the hold. Like if you are in a 5spd car and do a low 3rd gear roll on and the turbo spikes 30+psi then it will hold 30psi to 6k and 24/25psi to 7k but if you are to start in 1st and row the gears the biggest the spike might see is 29-30psi and falling to 25psi by 6k and 22psi by 7k. Its kinda of like a semi getting a run at a hill the Auto can keep the initial spike inertia all the way down the track ware as the 5speed can not. All of my shifts are 6.2k-6.5k to really keep the turbo in its sweet spot.

Also I blew the exhaust wheel off 2 14b's one at the track and one on the dyno trying to see what I could do on a 14b so I gave up on that. The exhaust wheel bounced under the car like a top for almost 30sec.

Hope to have new turbo on this week and get to the track this weekend.

Did 2 more 10.1's this weekend at our BOTI Event. (only got the one on Video)

YouTube - Team English Racing 2010 BOTI Woodburn OR 8sec DSMs 9sec Hondas

 

[AlphaVision]

That car runs very nice, sir.

Hey, guys, I was wondering will a 1G BOV be small for the FP68HTA turbo. I plan on trying to push it to it's limit so will the 1G be able to unload the air good enough? I don't want to throw money on a BOV because I have a dodge garage mod BOV and another one stock bov. So if one is not enought maybe I can put two 1G BOVs with the dodge garage mod.

Can you advise me on this one?

 

[Nate Crisman]

You guy got it. We do port the whole thing out for flow and then focus alot on the bottom shelf. So it will look kinda like stock but much bigger and smooth. The WG still opens and needs to open or the back pressure will just be to high. Also by porting this way there is less turbulence since a major portion of the air does not hit the ledge anymore.

Also like I have said before the Auto really helps with the hold. Like if you are in a 5spd car and do a low 3rd gear roll on and the turbo spikes 30+psi then it will hold 30psi to 6k and 24/25psi to 7k but if you are to start in 1st and row the gears the biggest the spike might see is 29-30psi and falling to 25psi by 6k and 22psi by 7k. Its kinda of like a semi getting a run at a hill the Auto can keep the initial spike inertia all the way down the track ware as the 5speed can not. All of my shifts are 6.2k-6.5k to really keep the turbo in its sweet spot.

Also I blew the exhaust wheel off 2 14b's one at the track and one on the dyno trying to see what I could do on a 14b so I gave up on that. The exhaust wheel bounced under the car like a top for almost 30sec.

Hope to have new turbo on this week and get to the track this weekend.

The RPM band is possibly the biggest source of confusion here. Most of us that are chasing your 16g results and chasing this car's ability to hold boost up top are forgetting that holding 30psi to 6200rpm on an automatic is alot different than holding 30psi to 7500rpm with a stick trans! "Holding 30psi to redline" might be an unattainable myth for the 5speed car regardless of the porting/wastegate due to the rpm band we typically run in as well as the shorter gearing/less load.

After seeing your car run so well in a low rpm band, Im going to try shifting way early on one run to see what happens and at least get a log/mph to compare with. I'v been shifting my E3 16g car about 7500-7600. Im thinking that's way too high for mild 264.272 cams even with a JMf intake considering how hard the boost drops in the last 1000rpm.

 

[Phil1320]

You guy got it. We do port the whole thing out for flow and then focus alot on the bottom shelf. So it will look kinda like stock but much bigger and smooth. The WG still opens and needs to open or the back pressure will just be to high. Also by porting this way there is less turbulence since a major portion of the air does not hit the ledge anymore.

Also like I have said before the Auto really helps with the hold. Like if you are in a 5spd car and do a low 3rd gear roll on and the turbo spikes 30+psi then it will hold 30psi to 6k and 24/25psi to 7k but if you are to start in 1st and row the gears the biggest the spike might see is 29-30psi and falling to 25psi by 6k and 22psi by 7k. Its kinda of like a semi getting a run at a hill the Auto can keep the initial spike inertia all the way down the track ware as the 5speed can not. All of my shifts are 6.2k-6.5k to really keep the turbo in its sweet spot.

Also I blew the exhaust wheel off 2 14b's one at the track and one on the dyno trying to see what I could do on a 14b so I gave up on that. The exhaust wheel bounced under the car like a top for almost 30sec.

Hope to have new turbo on this week and get to the track this weekend.

Did 2 more 10.1's this weekend at our BOTI Event. (only got the one on Video)

QUOTE]

Ok, cool. Congrats on more back up 10.1's.....definitely cool.

So, Lucas, what were you spinning those 14b's at for boost And care to say what the car did for AWHP before it spat the wheel out on the ground?

The RPM band is possibly the biggest source of confusion here. Most of us that are chasing your 16g results and chasing this car's ability to hold boost up top are forgetting that holding 30psi to 6200rpm on an automatic is alot different than holding 30psi to 7500rpm with a stick trans! "Holding 30psi to redline" might be an unattainable myth for the 5speed car regardless of the porting/wastegate due to the rpm band we typically run in as well as the shorter gearing/less load.

After seeing your car run so well in a low rpm band, Im going to try shifting way early on one run to see what happens and at least get a log/mph to compare with. I'v been shifting my E3 16g car about 7500-7600. Im thinking that's way too high for mild 264.272 cams even with a JMf intake considering how hard the boost drops in the last 1000rpm.

Good points....so are you going to try 7000?

 

[turbotalon1g]

I improved my 16G time by shifting from 7k down to 6500rpms and picked up .3

 

[LucasEnglish]

Well the hp was not as good as I hopped. Could have been on a hurt 14b.

Was spiking 29psi and falling 16psi by 6k. was about 270whp through the Auto. I felt like I should be right around 300whp since we have done 320whp through a 5spd on a 14b in the past.

My 12.3 on my wifes 14b car was shifting at 5800-6k. For this reason is why after market intake manifolds are going to lose a tone of ET since they are not meant to work in that lower of RPM range.

 

[91-gsx]

Well the hp was not as good as I hopped. Could have been on a hurt 14b.

Was spiking 29psi and falling 16psi by 6k. was about 270whp through the Auto. I felt like I should be right around 300whp since we have done 320whp through a 5spd on a 14b in the past.

My 12.3 on my wifes 14b car was shifting at 5800-6k. For this reason is why after market intake manifolds are going to lose a tone of ET since they are not meant to work in that lower of RPM range.

You have done an awesome job with your car. You really brought more attention to a car's setup, as opposed to just the amount of horsepower and weight of it.

I just have a few quick questions. What was it about the old (16G Automatic 10.8 at 125mph) setup that allowed you to shift at almost 8000rpm and still maintain all that boost to redline? I would imagine that people with manual transmissions would have better results somewhat mimicking that setup. The first thing that really jumps out for holding more boost in that particular setup, is that there is no intercooler. Did the power really hold up for longer in the old 16G setup, then it did with the FP68HTA setup? Or is the power spike/6500rpm shift/semi senario an improvement over simply shifting higher?

Maybe for the guys running pump gas/manual transmission, a water/air intercooler is the best bet for a setup improvement? Cools as well or better then an air/air intercooler, adds more power at the same boost because of the improved flow, and allows a gasping turbo to hold boost/power for much longer.

Im just going on and on here.. But.. Do you think that you could improve with this FP68HTA setup if you go with a water/air intercooler setup for more low end and top end power, then kill some of the low end back with a SMIM in hopes for a top end monster? Or is this a no room for improvement because of too many variables situation?

Great job once again, and thanks if you get to any of my questions.

 

[LucasEnglish]

Just when I thought It had gone its fastest. Did this 1st pass out tonight. Trided harder after this but due to tire spin 3 10.1 was the best.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The 10.8 times were hot pipe with a 2.0. The hot air made for way high boost # but not real power. I dont feel there is any real way to make a 16g sized turbo and a 2.3 hold power that well past 7k. A water to air could make more hp but the added weight and extra crap is not worth it.

 

[Phil1320]

Just when I thought It had gone its fastest. Did this 1st pass out tonight. Trided harder after this but due to tire spin 3 10.1 was the best.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The 10.8 times were hot pipe with a 2.0. The hot air made for way high boost # but not real power. I dont feel there is any real way to make a 16g sized turbo and a 2.3 hold power that well past 7k. A water to air could make more hp but the added weight and extra crap is not worth it.

Awesome man....damn! You are right there!

 

[e85_4g63]

What size tire is on the car? (10.069 run) What air pressure? Weight with driver? (You may have posted the weight, if you know it, but I didn't see it).

 

[91-gsx]

Just when I thought It had gone its fastest. Did this 1st pass out tonight. Trided harder after this but due to tire spin 3 10.1 was the best.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The 10.8 times were hot pipe with a 2.0. The hot air made for way high boost # but not real power. I dont feel there is any real way to make a 16g sized turbo and a 2.3 hold power that well past 7k. A water to air could make more hp but the added weight and extra crap is not worth it.

I totally forgot that you are running a 2.3 with this new setup. Sorry about that. It makes sense now as to why you would not want to go over 7k. The water to air is nice, but your right, it might end up adding more weight then it's worth.

Great run! You are almost there!

 

[LucasEnglish]

Was 2680 with me in it last week at our BOTI event. Tires are 25.4in I think. 10psi in the front and 15psi in the rear.

 

[turbotalon1g]

Awesome, congrats.