Garrett & Holset Turbo Users - Your Oil Drain May Be Too Small!

[talonDSMerr]

I don't really understand why the oil drain has to be around the size of -14 AN while the feed is generally only -4 AN? I'm not saying a bigger drain isn't better, I'm just curious because it's similar to an exhaust with a 2.5" downpipe and 3" catback. The 3" catback doesn't hurt the exhaust flow, but it certainly doesn't offer a better flow pattern than a 2.5" exhaust with the 2.5" downpipe.

A big part of the drain problem, I think, is the huge step down in drain size from the CHRA to the drain fitting. You can see from pictures posted that the diameter of the drain fitting isn't even equal to the width of the CHRA drain. It's like using a ported 2g exhaust manifold on a non-ported 14b 6cm^2 turbine housing. That step will seriously hinder flow.

I'm thinking of "gasket matching" the drain fitting by grinding it at an angle and making sort of a funnel for the oil, and effectively getting rid of any step blocking flow. I'm positive this will help with drainage, but I'm not sure if it will solve the problem. We'll see when it's all said and done.

 

[dsm-onster]

Ive used the rules they tought me on every turbo install i've done and have never had the problems i hear about people having on here with the seals and everything else..and i feed my journal bearing garret from the head...took a OEM 1g feed line, cut it in half (kept the side on the head), then used compression coupling to adapt it to a -3AN fitting to connect to the turbo.. now i have well over 90k on this turbo and no signs of bad bearings or seals FWIW

You have no b-shafts either . I think that feeding from the head is perfect if you have no bshafts. Jsut a decent flowing line and you're ok.

How do you set up your return line? You're still on the garrett right?

 

[Morphius]

Here's a oil return that's used on a Dodge cummins 2003-newer:

 

[Morphius]

The oil pan simply has a tube welded to it. Return is slip fit into the pan.

 

[bluegs03]

perfect thank you so much for making those measurements for us! It appears that jusmx was right

 

[dsm-onster]

I need a bigger drain line ASAP

 

[draculia]

I've had my 50 trim journal bearing Garrett for at least the past 5 years, if not more with no issues. I have no balance shafts, I run off the filter housing, use an unrestricted -4 feed, and up until a few weeks ago I was using an old FP drain line that used 1/2" id line with a 3/8"npt fitting at the pan. I have since redone the line using -10 socketless, but will be redoing it again since this line is not flexible enough for me and I'm afraid it might kink over time. Also, I run a dry cartridge, so I suppose that's another strike against me. I've never had an issue, so I'm happy to stick with what has worked for me.

 

[projecTSI]

If anyone is going to make these drain flanges from the turbo, let me know. I would like one for my 3/4" Adel Wiggins setup that I am making.

 

[talonDSMerr]

Those are great pictures and very informative. Is there a way you can measure the 2003-newer Cummins oil feed diameter? Comparing apples to apples is better than apples to oranges. If their feed line is larger than our typical -4 AN lines, then obviously they will need a larger drain size to accomodate the larger amount of oil fed into the CHRA.

 

[Artago]

Those are great pictures and very informative. Is there a way you can measure the 2003-newer Cummins oil feed diameter? Comparing apples to apples is better than apples to oranges. If their feed line is larger than our typical -4 AN lines, then obviously they will need a larger drain size to accomodate the larger amount of oil fed into the CHRA.

Not necessarily, I think Justin mentioned that the Diesel trucks run lower oil pressure so they may need a larger feed to flow more oil. On the other hand, most of us run 70-100 psi under WOT so a smaller line may make more sense.

I'm not arguing a point here, just re-iterating what has been already said. Any thoughts Justin?

Cheers,

Tom

 

[aero_sallee]

Good info. Thanks for doing all the research.
Looks like I will be redoing mine when I put the car back together.

Morphius, I might actually try using one of those lines if they aren't too terribly expensive. How much was it, and do you have a part number for it?

 

[Morphius]

Morphius, I might actually try using one of those lines if they aren't too terribly expensive. How much was it, and do you have a part number for it?

Couldn't tell you what it cost. It came with some of the Holsets I got (can't say where... ). It might be aftermarket for that matter. The HE351's I have had it, but the older HE341's I have had a steel tube. I got to looking through my Chrylser equivilent of CAPS and it shows the steel tube through 2005. This might have been 2006 and newer, but not sure.

Anyway, the part number on the convoluted tube above is 3970875.

 

[WIDSM]

So after reading all of this I've come to realize that I'm just going to have to make my own flanges and build a return line. No big deal, when I tried to look up thread pitch for -14 I couldn't find anything they have -12 and -16 but no -14. I went on summit racing to find some -14 fittings, and I still couldn't even find any. So my question is, do they even sell -14? After all of my searching I haven't been able to find anything and now I'm thinking I'm going to have to go with -12. If anyone can find some fittings and hose for -14 that'd be great because I'd like to start making my flanges this weekend.

 

[bluegs03]

The best ive been able to find is this so far
Liquid Air Adapter

They sell hose that is 3/4ths inch inside diameter, only problem is i dont know if it will hold up to the heat... oh and also, the brass fittings will work perfectly. so make my own flanges tap them for the threads on the brass fittings, slip fit the fittings onto the hose clamp it with 2 of those worm clamps and see how it holds up? Let me know if anyone finds any 3/4ths inside diameter hose or larger that they can get to work

 

[99gst_racer]

So after reading all of this I've come to realize that I'm just going to have to make my own flanges and build a return line. No big deal, when I tried to look up thread pitch for -14 I couldn't find anything they have -12 and -16 but no -14. I went on summit racing to find some -14 fittings, and I still couldn't even find any. So my question is, do they even sell -14? After all of my searching I haven't been able to find anything and now I'm thinking I'm going to have to go with -12. If anyone can find some fittings and hose for -14 that'd be great because I'd like to start making my flanges this weekend.

Yeah, there's no such thing as -14. They skip right to an inch after 3/4".
-12 should be plenty, I'd think.

 

[myturbo]

here is something else that may come into play .the hole size on our oil pan ? i can go measure it if needed with a pic ?

 

[Morphius]

Another point, the oil return on the pan should be above the level of oil in the pan so it's free flowing.

 

[andy4g63]

Another point, the oil return on the pan should be above the level of oil in the pan so it's free flowing.

This is a good point Morphius.
Also very important, I think is that the oil drain on CHRA have to be pointed at exactly 90* down. Not to be tilted forward/toward radiator/, or backwards/toward the block/. Because, if you have oil shooting into the turbo at around 80-100 PSI and then coming down on angle/even very little/, it might cause insufficient drainage too, building some kind of backpressure, instead of free flowing drain.

Just a thought.

 

[WIDSM]

here is something else that may come into play .the hole size on our oil pan ? i can go measure it if needed with a pic ?

Can you measure it please. I'd really like to get a start on this hopefully this weekend and I just want to have all the dimensions before I start working.

I guess I'll be going with a -12an line since that's the closest that I can get it to the correct size.

Can anyone confirm that the stock oil drain hole is above the oil height level?

 

[aero_sallee]

Can you measure it please. I'd really like to get a start on this hopefully this weekend and I just want to have all the dimensions before I start working.

I guess I'll be going with a -12an line since that's the closest that I can get it to the correct size.

Can anyone confirm that the stock oil drain hole is above the oil height level?

Can't help on the size. But with normal oil levels on a 2g if you remove the drain from the pan, some oil will come out. It's not too high up, but oil will come out.

 

[donniekak]

I installed an hx-40 on my galant today. Boy are these things sensitive to oil pressure, and volume. Ran it from the ofh with a .080" restrictor and got a smoke show so bad i thought my turbo was blown or my rings were bad. I decided to feed it from the head and it was all gone, no smoke and faster spool. I have a balance shaft elimanition, but i leave the front shaft in, no belt, and a stubby in the oil pump. This setup usually doesn't have the oil pressure issues of a full elimination.

 

[JusMX141]

^ ^ ^ Interesting. ^ ^ ^

What type of oil drain are you using? What is the flange / tube inside diameter?

 

[need2boostpsi]

This is a good point Morphius.
Also very important, I think is that the oil drain on CHRA have to be pointed at exactly 90* down. Not to be tilted forward/toward radiator/, or backwards/toward the block/. Because, if you have oil shooting into the turbo at around 80-100 PSI and then coming down on angle/even very little/, it might cause insufficient drainage too, building some kind of backpressure, instead of free flowing drain.

Just a thought.

not saying this isn't true, just wanted to put a twist on it, if you take a bottle of manual tranny fluid and hold it straight up and down it will drain slower than at a slight angle because the sides are shaped like a funnel and air can ride up top while oil is free to drain. now if you think about it our CHRA's are shaped the same way as that bottle at the base. would it then make since for us to keep a slight angle?

 

[donniekak]

^ ^ ^ Interesting. ^ ^ ^

What type of oil drain are you using? What is the flange / tube inside diameter?

T3 on the holset through 5/8" tubing to the stock oil pan flange. I did something different though. When i got my car it had a piece of clear tubing for the oil drain line. I knew i didn"t want to use that because it get"s brittle at high temps, but i had an idea. I used it at first and ran the car while i looked at it. Even when the car was smoking the tube was about 1/3 filled, while reving the engine. That is why i thought my rings or turbo were bad. But when i ran my line from the head the smoking stopped. By the way, i'm so glad i didn't get a td06 20g.

 

[Morphius]

Is there a way you can measure the 2003-newer Cummins oil feed diameter? Comparing apples to apples is better than apples to oranges. If their feed line is larger than our typical -4 AN lines, then obviously they will need a larger drain size to accomodate the larger amount of oil fed into the CHRA.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/244467-holset-hx-35-oiling-3.html#post151845475