Which Turbo...

[KPEclipse]

Well, I got a HUGE FMIC finally on the car, and with the setup that's on there, I turned my 14b up to 20psi, and good GOSH does the thing rip!

At this point, I'm looking at making more power, about 400plus, and im wondering which turbo you guys think I should look at. I have a 16g at my house, but I figure why bother with that and struggle struggle struggle to max it out, when I can go bigger...but I want something with a decent spool...

Right now I've been looking at a TO4B
45 trim
.42 compressor and a .48turbine...

The TO4E was the first one I looked at with a .50 compressor and a .63 turbine but for where I'm going to run it (like 22-25 psi) I thought I'd see a bit of a better spool with the TO4B and not lose power...

These arent the only two turbos though, thats just what I was thinking. If you guys have any better ideas, let me know. My car is FWD and I'm trying to make low 12 second passes.

 

[erald01]

Well you need to ask yourself a few questions. 1) do you plan on driving this car daily cause the T04 will deffenitly not be for every day drive. 2) Is your engine going to stay stock (internal wise), because once you crank the psi on a T04 then say good bye to your head and everything else. 3) being a Fwd you gona have traction problems, so consider slicks if you want to run 12's. Good luck

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

Well you need to ask yourself a few questions. 1) do you plan on driving this car daily cause the T04 will deffenitly not be for every day drive. 2) Is your engine going to stay stock (internal wise), because once you crank the psi on a T04 then say good bye to your head and everything else. 3) being a Fwd you gona have traction problems, so consider slicks if you want to run 12's. Good luck

i've ran over 26psi on my 35r on my stock motor and head and it still runs just fine?

Dont get the to4b...the evo 3 makes just as much power and spools a lot better
You could go with a standard 50 trim but you have to honestly ask yourself how long do you plan to keep with your setup? I regreted spending money on a bolt on housing and you will too because they dont really like pump gas at all and hp is limited due to the lack of size on the turbine housing

 

[KPEclipse]

well im thinking if i was gonna go to the 50trim, why not get the 45 trim To4b?

I think this should be the last upgrade unless I decide to get a FP3052 or something which I highly doubt will ever happen. This should be more than enough power to murk most things on the street and put down a reputable time at the track.

The 16g is always an option, I have a b16g actually in my position that needs a rebuild...maybe I should just build that and put it on...you think at 24 psi it'll be good enough?

I'll probably just weld the wastegate because I wanna go external anyway, better boost control...

 

[blueninteytwo]

Forced sells a nice TD06-18G....

 

[KPEclipse]

or, can i buy the 18g or 20g wheel, buy a used 14b, and stuff the 20g wheel inside that compressor?

then weld the flapper shut, throw the external on there, and call it a day?

 

[erald01]

I say go with the 20g, i think they are very reliable and put down some nice numbers.

 

[daren_p]

First off if you plan on running low 12's on your street tires, it's not going to happen. Trust me, I've been there & adding even more power won't help you either. Get slicks, or you won't be impressed with the time you pull.

As for the turbo, don't bother with the 45trim, you probably won't see any additional power with it vs an evoIII & if you do it will be very miminal & probably add a good amount of lag. If 400 at the wheels is your goal, like has been said over & over again, go 50 trim (the 50 trim is a big step up in potential vs the 45trim you mentioned). There's a reason why everyone recommends the 50 trim

With the 16g I highly doubt you'll see 400 whp at 24psi. You need race gas or meth injection, more boost, cams & probably a SMIM to see that kind of power out of it. Yes it has been done, but with all the bolt on mods you can throw at it & this isn't the norm.

 

[kraka]

You will never squeeze 400whp out of that ineffecient To4b. Like mentioned, the EvoIII 16g will spool way faster and actually makes great power once you have full supporting mods and a proper tune.

400whp will turn your street tires into burnt rubber as soon as you hit boost. PTE/SBR/FP/AGP all sell 50trim sized turbo's, and they will make way more power than a To4b, and the spool is not bad at all. In fact, being a bit laggy is a good thing for a FWD car, or else you would immediately lose traction as soon as you step on the throttle.

To consider reaching 400whp, you will need much more than a bolt on turbo however. For supporting mods, purchase Dsmlink, 850cc injectors, a Walbro 255 w/ AFPR, and a set of aftermarket cams. Some
ARP's will help once you decide to crank up the boost.

Just don't forget, making power isn't as easy as playing with the boost controller. Get a wideband and dsmlink and read up on tuning, besides gaining horsepower you could end up saving your motor.

 

[KPEclipse]

So I guess I'm going to try and get money saved for a 50trim and what not...

I found a 20g for 100 bones with an already welded flapper door that I'm quite interested in.

As for the slicks, a friend of mine has a set I can borrow for when I want to go to the track, I just wanted to see what I could do with radials on the car, if anything...

The To4b is out, because from what I've been reading on here and another board, alot of people are telling me it's really not worth it. The 20g, right now for the price, is my best look I think. I have an AFPR waiting to be installed and theres a Walbro 255 in the car in need of a rewire. ARP's are on the way as well.

I was going to run my next turbo with 650's because I can get them for $50 from a friend, and for tuning, ive got the keydiver with safc, works wonders for me...

You think I can crank 400hp out of the 20g? And I do plan to get a SMIM when I can afford it...maybe some cams although 300-500 bux is alot of money...

 

[kraka]

Trust me, Cams before Intake.

 

[daren_p]

400 whp can be done on a 20g but it will take proper supporting mods, good tune, etc, etc. What version of the 20g is it? $100 seems very cheep for a 20g, is it a real MHI 20g or is it one of those 16g ebay knock offs that they list as a "20g"? What kind of conditions is it in?

You'll probably come close to maxing those 650's out if your looking for 400 whp & most don't recommend going over 80% injector duty cycle (IDC). When I ran 750's I was seeing around 85% IDC when making close to the 400 whp mark.

400 whp isn't super easy to do so don't think your going to slap on a 20g, run 20psi & make that kind of power (not specifically saying you think this, just want to make things clear). It will take a good amount of boost & will depends on what mods your running that effect VE. Cams, SMIM, etc will defently help you get the most out of the turbo. As said, cams defently before SMIM.

 

[KPEclipse]

well, i just made a call and i am getting some slicks for track nights, so there you have that...i just need a set of 15s to put them on...either way...im covered when it comes to that

he said its a MHI 20g, but it's blown, a friend of mine has rebuilt countless turbo's - I was just going to buy the turbo and rebuild kit, and have myself a 20g for a maximum 220 dollars.

If thats the case when it comes to the injectors, I'll probably take a look at getting a set of 850's. That way my IDC won't be over 80%.

I wasnt looking for 400 right off the bat by bolting on the 20g, just wondering if it was 400whp capable. As for the cams, they are quite confusing to me, how they work, with the numbers and all...if theres anyway you could help explain them to me maybe I could pick up a set soon. The FP1 or 2 cams look good, and sound good, but to be honest, I don't really know what I'm looking at.

 

[KPEclipse]

now this 20g thing is becoming a problem, its become hard to get in contact with the guy that was selling it...do i start looking for an e316g? I already have a b16g with a wheel and all but it's got some shaft play that makes me nervous...should I purchase a e316g rebuild kit, and put that in there?

with whatever I'm going to do I want to do an external gate for maximum boost control...I keep thinking and thinking...if 400whp is going to be that much of, for lack of a better term, hassle with a FWD, maybe I should just do the 16g thing, and throw everything else at it (cams, SMIM for example) and see how much power it makes.

But I also keep seeing the TO4E 50 trim, and it looks tempting...especially for the price...so I guess what I'm asking is what do you guys think I should do...keep the b16g and rebuild it into an e316g, or sell that, and save money for a TO4E or other related 50trim?

With either option I'm going to need a new manifold and external wastegate, so don't worry about that when answering. The only real headway the 16 has over the TO4E 50trim is the fact that it's bolt on for me right now...

thanks for the help so far guys, keep it up ###!

 

[daren_p]

The evoIII is a great little turbo & most are pretty surprised with the power it can put down when pushed but if 400whp is your goal, personally I'd skip it & look for something abit larger. Yes 400whp has been done on it but this isn't the typical result, requires basically all the bolt on mods you can throw at it, race gas & about as much boost as you can push out of the porr little thing. Go with a 50 trim varient, you will be able to reach the 400 whp goal with bolts ons, a descent amount of boost (probably mids 20's but nothing the stock 7 bolt can't handle) & of course a good tune (not that you'd be running this kind of boost with a poor tune ).

For cams there is a tonn of info on this site if you do abit of searching (I know I've answered many theads with nice, long reply's) & there's alot of others as well. Short answer, if emissions isn't much of a concern & your looking for that 400whp goal, 272's or a 272 varient (such as FP2's) will be what your after. You will lose abit of the bottom end my the top end will more then make up for it.

 

[KPEclipse]

Well, that seemed almost too easy for you

TO4E and FP2's it is...time to go back to work - start saving money and selling old parts again!

 

[KPEclipse]

If/when I get the TO4E...am I going to have to get an o2 eliminator dp?
I already know that an external wastegate is necisarry...

 

[turboglenn]

If/when I get the TO4E...am I going to have to get an o2 eliminator dp?
I already know that an external wastegate is necisarry...

It depends on the manifold you buy. If you get one that's flanged for an external gate, you buy a turbo that has the 4 or 5 bolt ( i prefer the 5) DP flange on it that doesn't have a wastegate on it, then you build a custom downpipe or have one made. Hell these days you can probably buy a DP for a T3 hot side. back when i put mine on you could only buy DP's for MHI turbos, so i had to build my own.

I wouldn't suggest an internally gated turbo of that size anyway. As for the actual O2 it's self, just put a bung for it anywhere you want, about 18-24 inches from the turbo is best.

I'm not wquite sure exactly what you're asking but i hope that helps.

 

[joeracer321]

I think you should go with at least a 50 trim to achieve your goals. Other options would be a S256 or S258, also the 57 or 60 trim turbos are good choices as well. If you are interested in a 50 trim, I have one for sale.

 

[KPEclipse]

well what i was asking was i already have my o2 on the car now, but when i get this new 50trim, its going to be that, and a new manifold, and external wastegate.

will my o2 sensor thats already on the car already work, or will i have to either get a new o2 sensor, or an o2 eliminator downpipe to bolt up to the turbo?

 

[daren_p]

You can use the stock O2 housing, it will bolt right up to the 50 trim if its a Mitsu flanged turbo but it also depends on where you plan on running your wastegate. If you install it off the exhaust mani, you'll be fine. If you want to mount it off the O2 housing obviously you'll have to swap for an aftermarket O2 housing, thats the desired configuration. Most aftermarket O2 housing that are designed to run/mount an external are designed to still bolt up to a stock style downpipe (ie 2 bolt flange, stock downpipe location)

 

[JusMX141]

Any reason you're hellbent on going external?

22psi on an internal gate is fine....that's what my buddy runs daily on an internally-gated FP Green on his 2G TSi AWD. It really keeps installation simple and parts costs low. By the time you find a good external gate and manifold with an external gate flange you could expect to spend $500.

 

[dsm-onster]

I think you guys are steering this guy in all the wrong directions. . .

Just kidding. The 50-trim is what you want.

Just another option... hx35 with a bep housing. It is bolt-on and flows more than a 50trim. It spools good earlier too! It has all the Borg-Warner tech and when you're ready, put back on the original holset housing go external and get a divided runner exhaust and max out the compressor at 56-57 lbs/min. They are indistructable.

. . . end Holset import tuner commercial.

 

[KPEclipse]

i plan on running it off of the manifold, so thats good...as for the external, its actually not too expensive as of right now. xs is selling external wastegates for 75 dollars shipped...the reason why i want to go external is because i want maximum boost control. with my 14b now it creeps from 19 to 22 at the top sometimes.

the manifold i can get for 200 from a buddy that has one sitting around for 300 total for an external setup...i dont know too much, actually, i dont know ANYTHING about holsets...they mite be a good idea, i got alot of research to do...

 

[kraka]

Just wanted to let you know, my buddies 16g powered 2g FWD went 12.0 @ 118 on slicks.

It's his daily driver, but he definitely went all out with the setup last season. It has everything you can imagine in order to hit that goal (Trans, LSD, SMIM, Cams, Link, weight reduction) so just letting you know that it takes quite a bit to hit times like that with a 16g in a fwd application.

The 50trim is a great idea however, I run a bolt on/internal PTE but a T3/External unit would help you get the most out of the setup. The ideal setup IMO would be a T3 with the divided outlet and an aftermarket o2 housing with the external mounted on it. I have heard people have better luck with boost control and boost creep elimination when using the o2 mounted wastegate.

Lastly, I wouldn't go with an SSAC/XS wastegate. There are very few products I trust from that company, but I definitely wouldn't trust an important part such as a wastegate from them. Even though I have seen people running XS wastegates, I would be too worried about a spring failing or whatnot and end up overboosting and costing you a motor! All for a $75 wastegate?

If your going to spend the money and go external, do it right. If you want to save money, look for a used Tial 38mm.