Which Turbo Should I Get [merged] What Turbo

[Ludachris]

Which turbo will be sufficient for consistent 11 second times? I've recently decided on a big 16g, but will that be big enough to run 11s with supporting mods and decent tuning? Remember, this is for a budget street car, so any one purchase over $1k is tough. A big 16g will run about $700-900, which is about $300-400 less than the larger alternatives.

Of course, I'll need lots of practice to run these times, but, I just want to make sure that it's possible before the money is spent.

 

[phunny]

So I'm still researching my new turbo setup and although I like FP it's going to be 3k with my dsm manifold which seems high for a darn turbo.

Problem is someone wants my whole turbo setup and they need it NOW. So if I sell it then I'm absolutely forced into a whole new setup. What are your thoughts on the best setup for my needs and also the most cost effective. I do have a small issue with FP not releasing their maps, for 3k I feel as if I bought the rights for that info .

One more thing, I don't sell much so how could I go about figuring up a price for a whole setup like mine?

 

[JusMX141]

A couple questions-

1) What all are you selling in your "setup"? Turbo/manifold/o2 housing/wastegate?

2) If you do sell everything, would you be willing to move to a T3 manifold and turbo?

3) What do you consider an acceptable price to spend if $3k is too much?

 

[Archer Fabrications]

^ all answers point holset! Maps released, option of t3 or bolt on

Also a very reasonable price imo

 

[Dert]

Punishment racing sells turbo kits with a variety of turbo choices for just under 3k. Kit comes with all hardware, your choice of wastegate, o2 housing, their badass big tube T3 header, oil feed, oil return, gaskets, and mushimoto slim fan. Could be more to the kit, can't fully remember off hand. You get one hell of a setup for the price tho.

 

[Apocalypitca]

So here is where i am right now...

I have saved up some more money after finishing up my engine build last year and I'm in need of some expert advice or suggestions for turbo possibilities. I'm looking for modest power but not so much to push my engine to the extreme till a bigger and stronger build can be done.

Here is what I have in my engine build...

BC 272 cams with springs
Arp Headstuds
Mitsubishi MLHG
KIng thrust bearings
ACL race rod and main bearings
Balance shaft delete
New water and oil pump
Ported head intake and exhaust
Piston rings
New timing belt (ofcourse)

Supporting mods..

vrsf short route
1g bov
fuel lab fpr
255 walbro fuel pump

Appreciate suggestions..
Lets say price cap is 600-700??

Forgot to add fic 1000cc injectors

 

[Cornfed4G64]

Hx35 bastard 20G? With that budget it pretty much rules out pte, FP turbos, ect.

 

[dsmboise]

Sorry, what's a MLHg?

Head Gasket, Right? Is it Melling?

 

[Apocalypitca]

Its the Mitsubishi Multi layer head gasket

 

[97ClipseGSX]

Ok guys I just want some help on this. I have the option to buy 1 of 2 Turbos. I can buy a 20G Turbo, or a Evo 3 16G Turbo. Any opinions on whats the better setup to run? Any opinions would be much appreciated.

 

[mean4g]

Ok guys I just want some help on this. I have the option to buy 1 of 2 Turbos. I can buy a 20G Turbo, or a Evo 3 16G Turbo. Any opinions on whats the better setup to run? Any opinions would be much appreciated.

Depends on the turbine with the 20g. If the 20g doesn't have atleast a 10 degree clip on the TD05H or a 6sl2 then I would say the 16g. Personally I like the 20g when setup properly.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

The EVO3 16g will do 42-43 lbs/min maxed out, the unclipped 5H 20g will get cranky around 44 lbs/min, 45 if you push it, and the old school 6H 20g will do ~48 lbs/min maxed out. I've been wondering for a couple years since running an unclipped 5H 20g for the first time on my GF's talon, which is better, the EVO3 16g or the 5H 20g. The EVO3 at 42 lbs is up against the compressor limit and the turbine drive pressure is going vertical. The 5H 20g at 42 lbs should still have good compressor efficiency, but I'm not sure what drive pressure is doing since it's getting near the turbine limit for that combo (an assumption, since the 6H goes higher). I didn't log back pressure on her car unfortunately. The difference is probably miniscule, and the slight spool advantage of the 16g probably makes it the winner.

A proper 20g that flows the full ~48 lbs/min is well worth the upgrade over the 16g. The 6H 20g was one of my favorite street/strip turbos 10-12 years ago. Similarly on my 05 EVO, the upgrade from the 42 lb/min EVO8 16g to the 49 lb/min FP EVO Green was well worth the upgrade. Kait's car at 49 lbs/min on an FP DSM Green ran 11.4 at 124 on a transmission that simply would not shift into 3 gear and was an absolute blast on the street. Similarly, my Mightymax on the same compressor wheel (T3 50 trim) ran 10.8 at 124 and would be a real handful on the street, if I had the balls to drive it. Any turbo in this range would make most people happy IMO, without all of the extra work and hassle of the big turbos.

 

[mean4g]

The EVO3 16g will do 42-43 lbs/min maxed out, the unclipped 5H 20g will get cranky around 44 lbs/min, 45 if you push it, and the old school 6H 20g will do ~48 lbs/min maxed out. I've been wondering for a couple years since running an unclipped 5H 20g for the first time on my GF's talon, which is better, the EVO3 16g or the 5H 20g. The EVO3 at 42 lbs is up against the compressor limit and the turbine drive pressure is going vertical. The 5H 20g at 42 lbs should still have good compressor efficiency, but I'm not sure what drive pressure is doing since it's getting near the turbine limit for that combo (an assumption, since the 6H goes higher). I didn't log back pressure on her car unfortunately. The difference is probably miniscule, and the slight spool advantage of the 16g probably makes it the winner.

A proper 20g that flows the full ~48 lbs/min is well worth the upgrade over the 16g. The 6H 20g was one of my favorite street/strip turbos 10-12 years ago. Similarly on my 05 EVO, the upgrade from the 42 lb/min EVO8 16g to the 49 lb/min FP EVO Green was well worth the upgrade. Kait's car at 49 lbs/min on an FP DSM Green ran 11.4 at 124 on a transmission that simply would not shift into 3 gear and was an absolute blast on the street. Similarly, my Mightymax on the same compressor wheel (T3 50 trim) ran 10.8 at 124 and would be a real handful on the street, if I had the balls to drive it. Any turbo in this range would make most people happy IMO, without all of the extra work and hassle of the big turbos.

unclipped 20g-td05H bastards are notorious for compressor surge and choke it (as you mentioned). The 67MM 6H wheel is IMO a bit on the large side for a compressor that only flows 48 lb/min. After all the 6H turbine can support 60+ lb/min. I think a 6sl2, or even a 65MM TD06 is a better match IMO.

Take thoughts on spool with a grain of salt.. something can spool later/slower and not give the sensation of speed like a 16G would, yet still be faster.

The S200sx in the 56-59mm flavors spools very quickly relative to its size (think GT35R with near 20G spool) in any of the housings available and it would easily make your goals in the bolt-on housing.

I had a very good time with it and would recommend it to anyone with a 450+ awhp goal, it'll perform and give you room to grow in the future.

The s259, S200sx 80-70 is hardly the spool of a 20g (especially the td05H and 6sl2 variants). You won't see 20 psi on a 2L before 4k even on a .55AR bolt-on housing. Ask me how I know The S259 doesn't perform as well as the holset HX40 which has similar major/minor diameters as well. The s259 is certainly a fair turbo, but doesn't really have a place vs the Holset. Most people would rather pay less money, and bolt-on an HX40 pro and have a better performing setup.

I do however like the S256 and does perform well in a .55AR. Like an old school T04E 50 trim on crack.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

The s259, S200sx 80-70 is hardly the spool of a 20g (especially the td05H and 6sl2 variants). You won't see 20 psi on a 2L before 4k even on a .55AR bolt-on housing. Ask me how I know The S259 doesn't perform as well as the holset HX40 which has similar major/minor diameters as well. The s259 is certainly a fair turbo, but doesn't really have a place vs the Holset. Most people would rather pay less money, and bolt-on an HX40 pro and have a better performing setup.

I do however like the S256 and does perform well in a .55AR. Like an old school T04E 50 trim on crack.

Having spent considerable time driving/tuning a friends 6SL2 20G car as well as having personally had a 6SL2 18G and the S200sx on the same motor, in the same car.. and used the language "near 20G spool" as a result.. it is assuredly safe comparison.

Has it occurred to you (seems doubtful) that your setup may not have performed the same as my setup? That my I/H/E combo, my cam timing and fuel/spark scheme may have brought it on sooner?

Whats better performing? lets quantify this.. We are pitting 59mm 67lb/min vs 60mm 69lb/min compressors and it is going to be nearly impossible to tell the difference between the two. Add in the greater mass and major diameter of the 40's turbine and you'll find physics says it will spool up slower all other things being equal. In terms of aero, they very nearly are. Which is what swayed my decision towards the S200.

So few people actually tap out a given turbo before moving on its hysterical to read a response like yours. Sorry you can't figure out how to spool a 59mm turbo.

Besides that compare the price of a rebuilt HX40, with a shiny new Pro/Super 40 wheel against the cost of a stock Airwerks ETT S200sx and you'll find its not any cheaper.

Then when you do some more reading and learn of the range of compressor wheels that wind up in an HX40.. you'll see why those two series of turbos are directly comparable.

There's nothing wrong with the 40, but nut-riding it like that is just silly. Like the S200sx its great in terms of $/hp. They are very nearly interchangeable in terms of what they offer and pretending otherwise is a joke.

 

[mean4g]

Having spent considerable time driving/tuning a friends 6SL2 20G car as well as having personally had a 6SL2 18G and the S200sx on the same motor, in the same car.. and used the language "near 20G spool" as a result.. it is assuredly safe comparison.

Has it occurred to you (seems doubtful) that your setup may not have performed the same as my setup? That my I/H/E combo, my cam timing and fuel/spark scheme may have brought it on sooner?

a S259 will not spool anywhere close to a20g sl2. Did you ever "think" you had a problem on the 20g-6sl2? Or maybe you didn't realize you were riding in a td06H 20g? If you are talking about the S200sx-59 then it "maybe' will be close if run in a twinscroll manifold and the smallest .83 T4 twinscroll housing. However on a 70/61 turbine is already very small for that compressor and now we are talking totally different setups, and not to mention the smaller turbine won't flow at all in a .83 TS. Not even worth it. The S259 with the larger compressor/turbine even in the .55 BEP still spools at least 400+ RPM slower compared to the 20g 6sl2 in a 7cm (most common).

better performing? lets quantify this.. We are pitting 59mm 67lb/min vs 60mm 69lb/min compressors and it is going to be nearly impossible to tell the difference between the two. Add in the greater mass and major diameter of the 40's turbine and you'll find physics says it will spool up slower all other things being equal. In terms of aero, they very nearly are. Which is what swayed my decision towards the S200.

So few people actually tap out a given turbo before moving on its hysterical to read a response like yours. Sorry you can't figure out how to spool a 59mm turbo.

your so full of BS. I was hitting 20psi at 4200 ish, and 30 pounds was logged around 4500, and made over 500 WHP on the S259 on pump gas+meth. I have had the 18g, 50t, 60t, HTA68, S259 all on the same setup/car. So get real and quit talking out your ass.

that compare the price of a rebuilt HX40, with a shiny new Pro/Super 40 wheel against the cost of a stock Airwerks ETT S200sx and you'll find its not any cheaper.

the newer S200sx are cheaper. However they are not the same as the older BWS259. With the different compressor, different turbine, and overall different aero. Are they better than the older S200s? Since they selling them much cheaper and still selling the older versions my guess is not. Sounds like a budget version to me, however I would like to see some back to back comparisons.

when you do some more reading and learn of the range of compressor wheels that wind up in an HX40.. you'll see why those two series of turbos are directly comparable.

The HX40 is similar to the older S259 in alot of respects, but still not the same. THe HX40 has been proven to 700 WHP, the highest S259 to my knowledge is 613 WHP, and it does spool slightly slower in the same housing. However the S200sx-59 is quite a bit different. It appears to me you don't comprehend the difference between them.

nothing wrong with the 40, but nut-riding it like that is just silly. Like the S200sx its great in terms of $/hp. They are very nearly interchangeable in terms of what they offer and pretending otherwise is a joke.

The S200sx-59 is a great budget turbo. However lets not confuse it with the older S259 or the HX40.


You really should compare the S256 in the .55, vs 20g 6sl2. Spool wise I would agree with you there. They are within 100-200 RPM of each other, but with the obvious that the 256 would walk all over the 20g.

 

[90Awd_eagle]

I have collected a few turbos and am wondering which one to use and the others will go up for sale. I have two Garretts, a holset and, a turbonetics.

 

[11Banger]

What model of each turbo would probably help. & in all honesty which ever suits your goals would be the best options

 

[koponb]

Depending on condition, goals, and model. Are you adding it to your 99 NA?

 

[90Awd_eagle]

Sorry guys trying to see why I can't upload any more pictures. As for the models I am not for sure except the turbonetics 50 trim. This will be going on a 90 tsi awd 6 bolt.

 

[95DsManiac]

Well what a your goals for the car? Top end full drag car or fast spooling street/strip beast?mits hard to answer or give advice when the question being asked isn't complete.

Anthony B.

 

[90Awd_eagle]

I want to make around 450 and be as streetable as possible and I want a clean install.

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[bigbird94]

What type of Holset is it? Any shaft play?

 

[90Awd_eagle]

Im not sure on the type and it has not been installed to my knowledge and has very little side to side and no in and out.

here are some more pics

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[Bud92gsx]

What garret is that?

 

[90Awd_eagle]

Im not sure got these as payment for some other stuff but I have a lot more pictures when I pick one the others will be sold.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

That holset looks like a small h1c. The turbonetics stay away from. Use the m24 Garrett. Sell the rest. Or sell them all and buy a hy35 with all the stuff needed for a clean install.