Which springs and retainers??

['97boostinGST]

So ill be finally getting my shit rebuilt and ill be getting the head machined as well.
So far this is what i hate set for the head.
-3 angle valve job
-264/272 cams
-upgraded springs and retainers.

I was leaning on the Evo springs and retainers, but are they even worth it??
Im aiming for a 400fwhp mark.
I honestly have not done my share of research on head work so any input is welcomed.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Sent PM

 

[hurricanecris24]

How high you plan to rev

 

['97boostinGST]

No more than 7k.

 

[hurricanecris24]

Evo springs and retainers are good enough. The stock ones could handle the cams if you don't rev too high

 

[JacksonAuto]

You would benefit from an upgraded spring with those cams. The evo springs are better than stock DSM stuff, but wont cut it with bigger cams. The only reason the evo springs are considered an "upgrade" is because they're lighter. They don't offer a significant increase in spring pressure to make them appropriate for use with higher duration cams. This will lead to an inability of the spring to maintain proper valvetrain geometry and also valve loft, valve bounce and valve float. All of which will damage your engine and cost you horsepower.

I would upgrade to a set of the PAC alloy beehive springs with titanium retainers. Good time to replace the lifters and valve guide seals while you're in there.

DSM & EVO I-III Cylinder Head Components

OR If you want to take the guess work out of it we have complete heads.
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[9!'clipseDOHC]

I would upgrade to a set of the PAC alloy beehive springs with titanium retainers. Good time to replace the lifters and valve guide seals while you're in there.

DSM & EVO I-III Cylinder Head Components

That's an expensive set of springs/retainers just to run 264/272 cams. Even the Kiggly Beehives/titanium retainers are cheaper. You can get a set of Manley, Crower, or BC springs/retainers for almost half that. Why do you recommend those particular springs for his setup?

 

['97boostinGST]

Yeah i think ima stick with the evo, and i probably will just run a set of 264/264 since its my DD and i dont want to overkill it.

 

[hurricanecris24]

It won't be a overkill with the t28 it would help up top and plus your fwd you don't wanna spin to much with all the low end torque. Is your car auto or manual?

 

[Black95TSIawd]

If you're going to be replacing them anyways, might as well do it right once. You never know if in the future you decide to upgrade again and OEM springs just won't cut it.

I have BC springs and retainers which are not too expensive and they're holding up fine with my GSC cams.

 

['97boostinGST]

It won't be a overkill with the t28 it would help up top and plus your fwd you don't wanna spin to much with all the low end torque. Is your car auto or manual?

Manual, for turbo an evo 3 is the biggest ill go.

 

[hurricanecris24]

me personally would go 264/272 i have a evo 3 16g and it pulls hard. also to help with wheel hop you being fwd i would look into a solid front motor mount

 

[joescool2008]

I'd go with manley springs and retainers, why upgrade if you aren't getting more strength out of them? The reason i say manley is i've had good luck with them before and they are a supplier for ford.

 

[slowgsr]

for 400hp or even 500hp. I would say stock valvetrain with revised lifters and a set of FP2s. A valvejob is always a good idea too.

 

['97boostinGST]

Definitely getting solid motor mounts, mine are just dead garbage.
But i dont think a stock valvetrain can handle close to 500hp, has this been proven?

 

[Yngvar]

I like the forced performance beehive springs

 

[JacksonAuto]

That's an expensive set of springs/retainers just to run 264/272 cams. Even the Kiggly Beehives/titanium retainers are cheaper. You can get a set of Manley, Crower, or BC springs/retainers for almost half that. Why do you recommend those particular springs for his setup?

I don't follow. The Kiggly beehive spring set is $25 MORE expensive. The others you mentioned are not comparable. Please be sure to compare apples to apples. For example, the FP springs are $220 but don't come with retainers. They want you to use the stock retainers. This is NOT an acceptable practice. The increased pressure of these springs will actually cause the keepers to pull through the stock aluminum retainers. So how much are you saving when the retainer fails and you drop a valve through the engine?

I explained my recommendation in the post above.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I don't follow. The Kiggly beehive spring set is $25 MORE expensive.

PAC Alloy springs and titanium retainers $425

Kiggly Racing Beehive springs and titanium retainers $399

That makes the Kiggly Springs $25 LESS expensive (and they're proven to hold up even running low 8's).

The others you mentioned are not comparable. Please be sure to compare apples to apples.

Yes, the other ones that I mentioned are single springs, not beehives or dual springs. That is the whole point of my question. Why would you recommend a $400 set of beehives to be able to run 264/272 cams. I am not trying to be a smart@$$, I am seriously asking why? I have always heard that stock springs can be used with 264s and even 272's but that aftermarket springs are recommended. Any larger cam and they are required. So for a 272's why wouldn't a set of single springs and titanium retainers be more then sufficient?

For example, the FP springs are $220 but don't come with retainers. They want you to use the stock retainers. This is NOT an acceptable practice. The increased pressure of these springs will actually cause the keepers to pull through the stock aluminum retainers. So how much are you saving when the retainer fails and you drop a valve through the engine?

None of the springs I mentioned use the stock retainers. In fact, they all come with titanium retainers.

Brian Crower springs with titanium retainers $236

Crower springs and titanium retainers $269

Manley springs and titanium retainers $229

 

[JacksonAuto]

You're right, they can be found cheaper. I did a quick google search and most came up around $425. The OP asked what type of springs would work best, so I answered him. The beehives make for a good combination with any aftermarket cams. You benefit from the lighter weight and they will hold up better to the steeper ramps of the higher duration cams. Someone else had mentioned the FP springs, and they don't come with retainers.

 

[90tsiPA]

For example, the FP springs are $220 but don't come with retainers. They want you to use the stock retainers. This is NOT an acceptable practice. The increased pressure of these springs will actually cause the keepers to pull through the stock aluminum retainers. So how much are you saving when the retainer fails and you drop a valve through the engine?

Have you seen an evo aluminum retainer fail first hand? I have a friend with fp springs and stock retainers in his evo 9 running to 8500 with kelford 272's with no issues what so ever. I also spoke to fp and he has never once seen a stock retainer fail. I was just wondering if there was any experience since you made that statement earlier. It is logical that the aluminum would be too weak but I have never heard of this type of failure.

 

[JacksonAuto]

Yes, several sets first hand. The hardened spring material will also dig into and gouge the stock retainers.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

You're right, they can be found cheaper. I did a quick google search and most came up around $425. The OP asked what type of springs would work best, so I answered him. The beehives make for a good combination with any aftermarket cams. You benefit from the lighter weight and they will hold up better to the steeper ramps of the higher duration cams. Someone else had mentioned the FP springs, and they don't come with retainers.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/vendor-announcements/362334-kiggly-racing-beehive-springs-now-399-a.html

This is the new standard price, it is not a sale.

I just want to say thanks to the DSM community for supporting us.

Thanks,
Kevin

So ill be finally getting my shit rebuilt and ill be getting the head machined as well.
So far this is what i hate set for the head.
-3 angle valve job
-264/272 cams
-upgraded springs and retainers.

I was leaning on the Evo springs and retainers, but are they even worth it??
Im aiming for a 400fwhp mark.
I honestly have not done my share of research on head work so any input is welcomed.

OP, Seems like the EVO springs aren't enough of an upgrade to be "worth it". I am going to be using 272 cams in my head when I upgrade to a 20g and based on my personal research, will be using the Manley single springs with titanium retainers that I linked above. If I wanted to go "all out" on the springs I would use the Kiggly Beehives. He has proven them on the track, he is a huge supporter of the DSM community, and the profits from his sales go right back into his car (See this article). He's at 8.3 right now, how cool would it be to have a 7 second FWD DSM!!!

Hope this helps!

 

[Yngvar]

Yes, several sets first hand. The hardened spring material will also dig into and gouge the stock retainers.

I really appreciate your input on the FP springs because I never have heard anything bad about them and was planing on using them.

 

[JacksonAuto]

The springs are decent, just don't use them with the stock retainers.

 

[Gooberlog]

I run BC 272/272 cams with stock valve train and i rev to 8,000 rpm with no issues. I'm planning on shifting 8-8500 maybe when i build my block and i'm going with evo springs/retainers with those cams. Kelford cams can't handle the stock valvetrain from what i read, all the other 264 or 272 cams should be fine for 7000 or even higher.