The 4G63 NT Engine, and How to make a turbo kit for it!

[mavisky]

actually the best setup is the turbo engine + the turbo fwd tranny.

the nt tranny is nice since first through fourth are similar to the awd's and its fifth gear is nearly identical to that of the fwd's. this way you get good acceleration up to about 120, but then you still have the high fifth gear to be able to cruise in.

the problem with the nt tranny lies in the fact that you have to use the nt flywheel and an nt specific clutch. so far i've only found two clutches that can hold over 300 lb/ft of torque and both are near the $400 dollar mark. the other issue is that the nt transmissoin is physically weaker. just how much weaker noone really knows, but we do know for a fact that its not as strong internally as the awd or fwd turbo versions of it.

 

[InfamousEclipse]

All the parts needed to convert a n/t RS (stock) to a nice strong turbo settup is around $2,500 new? or $600 used? Where would I be able to get all these parts?

 

[mavisky]

wrong thread genius. you have the nt 420a not the nt 4g63.

check out www.2gnt.com

 

[InfamousEclipse]

Originally posted by mavisky
wrong thread genius. you have the nt 420a not the nt 4g63.

check out www.2gnt.com

Why do you feel it's neccasary to insult me? I have owned a DSM for about 4 days now, I don't claim to know anything that is why I am on here trying to learn, not trying to be insulted.

Besides, I am considering swapping a turbo engine rather than a non turbo

 

[TimG]

You can't swap a factory turbo engine in. You have a 2G. You don't know much about your car so I doubt you will be able to screw around with new engine mounts.

 

[xhypno]

It has been a while and I still miss my car, YES, you read right!!! I still miss my car. It all started 3 months ago, right after I started my NT project. I got the car up to 199hp on a dynojet, and then got gready. I tryed many ways to tune the car for even more power. But ended up blowing my third engine. So I decided to go with a us spec 4G63 Turbo block from a 2G, My Custom heads, HKS 262 cams, ported TB and Intake manifold. I put custom equal length headers on the car, and my custom geared tranny. It took three weeks and I got it up and running. I had the car dynoed and it turned up 183hp and 197ft/lbs. The car ran great for two weeks, then the car hell I was thrown into began. The engine began to miss, I checked the timing and it was perfect, then the engine developed a strong vibration under acceleration, and then all the time. I couldn't believe it a custom prepared engine was dying again. When I put the car on a lift for the third time to check it out, I noticed an oil leak. I performed a uv leak check and found a huge crack on the block, and when I tore the engine apart, the rod bearings were fu****, a first hand look at crankwalk was in front of me, and this was on an engine that was built, with custom bearings and machining. For those of you who think it was me, I didn't build this engine, my best friend at JnL performance of hollywood florida, built the motor. I was done, I sold the car to my friend who built the motor. He spent all of December building another 2g block, fully race prepared, and then installed my turbo kit on it. the 2nd day of driving it, after the brake in was the last the car would ever see. While racing a 2g GST, and not use to the lag and kick of a large 18g turbo, my poor car meet its demise. While doing 60 on I95 in Fort Lauderdale, he droped gears and punched it, in an attempt to show off, and the turbo spooled, kicked him in the as* and caused the car the hit the rear end of a 1970 Impala, before he could turn the wheel. Fiberglass vs Steel at 80+mph, you all know which one won. But I am waiting for my next DSM, and it will be the only remaining part of the DSM name, DSM Rally, the division of Mitsu that still works with Chrysler to build cars (they are partly responsible for the new PT Turbo and the soon to be Neon turbo). The car goes on sale next month under the name EVO 8. And I can't wait, on street gas, the one that was tested by SCC pushed 19psi at 2500rpm and 16.2psi at 6500rpm, and made 271hp at the four corners. That should be str8 for me, and solid enough that I won't kill it, untill I mod it like crazey (how about a rocket engine). Peace for now, I will be on every once In a while, do be afraid to PM me or ask a question in a post, I will help. Philip

I still have the custom geared tranny, and clutch (about the only parts that survived) if any one wants them.

 

[boostlessNT]

xhypno:

Sorry to hear about your troubles... sorry to see you part with your DSM as well. As with many other NT'ers out there - I'm also going to be following in your footsteps and modding my baby up with the 14b or possibly a small 16G. Depends on how much time&money I have for the project. Either way, it's been great to read your posts and the seen the help you've given so far. Thanks for helpin the rest of us NT'ers get the answers we've been lookin for.

Good luck with the EVO8, it's a sweet-ass lookin car. Too bad they wont' be selling it up here in Canada anytime soon.

Cheers

Andrew
BCDSM

 

[steckelberg]

Has anyone pulled this project off without blowing an engine??? Im on my 3rd engine and im not willing to go through another one...

 

[Vince]

My turbo project has been going consistant since last May, the only real problem Ive had is when my hood flew open on the freeway and crushed the top of my car last month. Two weeks ago I bought a 90 GSX and put my N/A motor and turbo setup in until I can have the 90 motor rebuilt. Ive snapped the balance shaft belt, which got caught in the timing belt, gone through three trannys, two clutches, hit boost spikes of up to 18 psi and cant get this motor to blow up for anything.
Hope to hear some better news from you guys!

 

[mavisky]

i completed the swap (turbo engine into a 2.0 nt hwile retaining the nt tranny) and engine wise its been fine. the tranny has given me issues such as bad bearings, broken shift fork, and now a leak that killed the current one. i've also had issues with a clutch to hold the power but i think i might have found the answer in a centerforce dual friction.

 

[steckelberg]

We CANT use a turbo tranny if were going to do the swap.

 

[TimG]

Originally posted by steckelberg
We CANT use a turbo tranny if were going to do the swap.

Sure you can. New tranny mount, clutch and clutch related pieces with a turbo flywheel and you can mount the tranny on.

 

[mavisky]

true timg.

the turbo tranny will go bolt right up but you'll also need the aluminum plate that bolts to the block so that your holes for the starter will line up correctly.

also be careful what years the transmission is from since i believe that after 5/92 they changed from 22 spline axles to 23. that would cause you to have to replace the axles as well as the hubs. (i believe)

this summer i intend to see how far i can take my nt combination. i'm picking up a new nt tranny sometime this week hopefully and will possibly be combining it with a centerforce dual friction in an attempt to harness in the power of the new ported 16g. if all goes well i intend to take this transmission into the 13's (no lsd since its in my broken tranny) and then possibly swapping in the phantom grip and trying to see if it won't handle 12 second power.

 

[TimG]

True about the splines. I learned the hard way. Hit my rim at 50kmh and bent lower control arm and bent my axle. I bought a new axle and control arm from a 91 car. I'm a 93 here and dammit, the axle didn't fit.

I'll be running a ported 16g with upgraded internal WG up to 18psi with high lift hks 264 cams. All on my non-turbo tranny. I just need a custom clutch.

 

[mavisky]

Originally posted by TimG
.......I just need a custom clutch.

same here. i tried the www.capclutch.com 5 puck kit and it held the 14b just fine, but the new 16g seems to cause it to slip. now i was leaking out my input shaft seal so i know that wasn't helping, but after talking to them the clutch was only rated at 279 lb/ft of torque which the new 16g is capable of clearing pretty easy.

my new clutch is hopefully going to come from www.dualfriction.com . $242 for a centerforce dual friction kit is pretty good if it will hold. i need to call centerforce tonight and get an answer on its capabilities, if not i'll end up with an act Xtreme in the car, although that'll definately cost a little bit more than the centerforce.

 

[Raph]

i am attempting this tis summer,i am very serious about this,the only problem is my eurospec 2g with the non turbo 4g63 engine and what clutch would i need for this odd combination,do i order a clutch from a 1g nonturbo or a 2g onturbo or simply a clutch for a 2g turbo,are they
identical?

 

[Emptytoys]

You will have to use the clutch from whatever /tranny combo you use.
If you use the NT flywheel and tranny, you will need a NT clutch.

Matt

 

[89 mirage evo]

Don't the NT motors use distributors and the Turbo motors use DIS ignitions? I've noticed that in the junkyards. Don't the distributors mount where the CAS would be?

 

[mavisky]

only the 1.8's have distributors

 

[89 mirage evo]

I'm planning to swap either a 4g63 turbo or a NA 4g63 and turboing the NA later on. Can I use a NA engine harness and just add wires for the CAS and knock sensor and change over to a turbo ecu? Would i have to change the MPI relay and injector resistors? Does the harness have to be the same year as the motor? The local auto dismantler is having a sale on engines for 80 bucks so i'm hoping to find at least a NA motor that I can pull out. Dollar for dollar, which route is easier on the wallet? Eventually I would get forged pistons, rods, intake manifold, injectors, HKS cams, exhaust header, T3/T4 turbo, FMIC, and maybe a Greddy e-manage or AEM EMS and a 4g64 crank. I hope i can find a NA motor because don't they basically have the same block, heads, and intake manifold?
I didnt know 1Gs came with a 1.8. How can I tell the 2.0L apart from the 1.8L, other than the DOHC???I assumed all 1gs came with 4g63s either NA or turbo.

 

[TimG]

Originally posted by 89 mirage evo
I'm planning to swap either a 4g63 turbo or a NA 4g63 and turboing the NA later on. Can I use a NA engine harness and just add wires for the CAS and knock sensor and change over to a turbo ecu?

It depends on what engine you have in there. I don't know what car you have, 89 Mirage I'm guessing. What engine is in there currently? 4G67, 4G61?

Originally posted by 89 mirage evo
Would i have to change the MPI relay and injector resistors? Does the harness have to be the same year as the motor? The local auto dismantler is having a sale on engines for 80 bucks so i'm hoping to find at least a NA motor that I can pull out. Dollar for dollar, which route is easier on the wallet? Eventually I would get forged pistons, rods, intake manifold, injectors, HKS cams, exhaust header, T3/T4 turbo, FMIC, and maybe a Greddy e-manage or AEM EMS and a 4g64 crank. I hope i can find a NA motor because don't they basically have the same block, heads, and intake manifold?
I didnt know 1Gs came with a 1.8. How can I tell the 2.0L apart from the 1.8L, other than the DOHC???I assumed all 1gs came with 4g63s either NA or turbo.

Injectors are low impedance, meaning you will need a resistor pack from a turbo car. If going with forged internals, for cost wise, do it all at once. As for 1.8L and 2.0L, just look on the block for a serial # and block number. The 2.0L are 4G63s and the 1.8L are 4G67's I believe.

 

[89 mirage evo]

My car has a 4g15 so I need the complete engine harness from a 1G. I was asking about using either a turbo or NT harness because it is very rare to find a turbo 1g in the salvage yard around here, but the NA 1g 4g63s show up once in a while. So i was wondering if i could use the NA harness and add the necessary wires and other things to make the motor work. I could get the NA motor, drop it in, wire it up, make it work, and turbo it later.
Where are the engine codes located on the block?

 

[mavisky]

Originally posted by 89 mirage evo
My car has a 4g15 so I need the complete engine harness from a 1G. I was asking about using either a turbo or NT harness because it is very rare to find a turbo 1g in the salvage yard around here, but the NA 1g 4g63s show up once in a while. So i was wondering if i could use the NA harness and add the necessary wires and other things to make the motor work. I could get the NA motor, drop it in, wire it up, make it work, and turbo it later.
Where are the engine codes located on the block?

yes you can use the nt harness. that's what i have in my car.

check out this sticky i just put together and it will help you with adding in the extra wires.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37019

 

[89 mirage evo]

Thats a good sticky I think ill swap in a NT 4G63, and then swap in a built turbo one later. I hope i can find a NT one in the salvage yard since the sale lasts until this sunday. 80 bucks sounds good for a complete motor.
So i need to get the complete motor, engine harness, ecu, mpi relay, injector resistor, and maf. Am i missing anything else? Where are the ECU and MPI relay located on the 1g? Do the NT tranny and Turbo tranny use the same mounts?

 

[mavisky]

you won't need the injector resistor unless you're putting the turbo engine in and using the turbo injectors.

the tranny mounts should be the same between fwd's. the ecu is under the dash as well as the mpi relay. both are goldish. might want to swing by advance auto or autozone and pick up a 1g haynes manual. will help you find this stuff