how many slapped a turbo on a nt and called it a day?

[compression]

thats it folks just want to get an idea of who just bolted up the turbo to their nt block and just called it a day, maybe the compression before turbo, milage on engine? how long it lasted ? how did it perform , im not talking about a rebuilt engine i mean an old high mileage 4g63 nt im sure there are a few of you. post up your experience , maybe some pictures.

 

[ove_98 TSI]

i was also thinking about doing this i have an old nt that i got for basiclly free,if it dies o well
would this be a 2.0 nt or the 1.8?

 

[compression]

and i dont mean just bolt the turbo and thats it , i mean put in some larger injectors perhaps the low impedance turbo 450cc's and the resistor pack and a fuel pump.

 

[jjgrizz73]

You still wont be able to run more than 8-10psi, maybe more if you can get a good tune. Most likely you can call it a day but soon to come you will have problems. My opinion is do it right the first time, dont cut corners you will end up spending more in the end.

 

[redyute1]

I did,baught the car for $100.00.The timing belt had broken 93 talon n/t, the plan was to reduild a head i pulled from the junk yard,but when i pulled the head off the engine i soon realized i was in for more than just that.The valves shot through the pistons,so i rebuilt an other junk yard 6 bolt block n/t.Then my buddy with 4 dsm's was like i have lots of parts sitting around slap a turbo on it and see how it performs.So i did just that,and run 8 psi of boost.Seriously speaking it pulled really hard with no tune at all.I could leave on a green light in 1st gear doing 30 mph and then floor it and spin both front tires, the dam thing was a blast to drive.Drove her like that for 9 months till i got a turbo block and did a complete turbo rebuild.to tell the truth the n/t at 8 psi pulled way harder than the turbo block on 15 psi.Hence my reason for starting a new build with high compression wisco pistons.i figure i can make lots of power on higher compression at lower boost levels on a 50/50 corn juice and 93 pump gas.

 

[compression]

You still wont be able to run more than 8-10psi, maybe more if you can get a good tune. Most likely you can call it a day but soon to come you will have problems. My opinion is do it right the first time, dont cut corners you will end up spending more in the end.

i dont want to run 8-10 psi , nor did i say i was even considering doing this, you assumed , which of course was a correct assumption but i also have quite a few turbo cars laying around , and technically im doing it right kinda, i have my old evo 8 fuel pump that i ran in mty gsx, some 450's and the resistor pack (the maft for tuning , and yes i also have the connecter to wire in) if you look at my profile i have a race dsm im building, im not concerned about huge power or high amounts of boost, and im well aware of the weakness in the nt pistons. this car also has a stock headgasket with god knows how many miles on it, i think that will blow before any pistons, i really only want to run as low of boost as my wastegate will allow , i just have a nice nt im putting together and lots of turbo accessories, and i want a nice peppy car with a fmic and a decent sounding bov to give this car a little more charactor

<a href="http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f224/mxdawg121/?action=view&current=268.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f224/mxdawg121/268.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f224/mxdawg121/?action=view&current=269.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f224/mxdawg121/269.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[compression]

I did,baught the car for $100.00.The timing belt had broken 93 talon n/t, the plan was to reduild a head i pulled from the junk yard,but when i pulled the head off the engine i soon realized i was in for more than just that.The valves shot through the pistons,so i rebuilt an other junk yard 6 bolt block n/t.Then my buddy with 4 dsm's was like i have lots of parts sitting around slap a turbo on it and see how it performs.So i did just that,and run 8 psi of boost.Seriously speaking it pulled really hard with no tune at all.I could leave on a green light in 1st gear doing 30 mph and then floor it and spin both front tires, the dam thing was a blast to drive.Drove her like that for 9 months till i got a turbo block and did a complete turbo rebuild.to tell the truth the n/t at 8 psi pulled way harder than the turbo block on 15 psi.Hence my reason for starting a new build with high compression wisco pistons.i figure i can make lots of power on higher compression at lower boost levels on a 50/50 corn juice and 93 pump gas.

may i ask what sort of fuel modifications did you run?

 

[big_d]

I did this to my first dsm. It is now in my brothers hand and there's a turbo transmission awaiting installation. The car really does pull quite hard. The modifications it has currently are turbo fuel pump, 450's, stock turbo ecu, 14b, hafe cast manifold, tial ewg, hard uicp, a turbo back exhaust, and of course all of the wiring modifications. He runs about 8psi and has no problems..except for the n/t transmission being weak. I never regret doing the install. All in all I had about 800 in parts, but when he got it he added the uicp, new manifold, and an external wastegate to better control low boost.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I did it a long time ago on my first dsm which started out as an N/T.
The first time I did it I didnt do enough research and ended up messing the rings up when I put a 14b stock 1g setup on the N/T. Whoever said you can only run 8-10 psi, that is only true if you dont tune it. The n/t ringlands sit too high and any detonation will #### them up quickly. The compression ratio itself is not high though, 9:1 is a perfect turbo CR. Hell Im about to throw 9:1's in my awd soon.

So anywho after I messed up the n/t motor that was old and on its way out anyways, I decieded to do it right and I rebuilt the motor to stock turbo 1g specs and put on a stock turbo 1g tranny that I found used,( since the nt tranny is super weak) and stock turbo eprom ecu and got it chipped, and did bigger injectors and the tune, and wired in the knock sensor and turbo maf and the injector resistor pack etc. Theres only like 5 additional wires needed for a N/T to safely and reliably run with the parts needed to be GST.

Basically converting it into a gst but without the stock boost gauge, and I did a handful of mods like e316g, and 190 fuel pump and big injectors etc and made it a 13 second car that was tractionless in 1st and 2nd with tons of weight reduction. It was a fun car, especially with the fact that it started out n/t, and the insurance company still thought it was an n/t which was good at the time since I was only 18 back then but in the end just getting a AWD was better. I ended up selling that car for like 2200 bucks with leaky valve stem seals and a dent on the side, which funded the mods to my awd.

Im not sure I remember everything in detail thats involved in properly converting an N/T to turbo but I might be able to answer some questions.

 

[cheap90gsx]

14b waste gate opens fully at 9.8 psi.

 

[92tsifwd]

I did the lagit n/t to turbo conversion and followed vfaq.com. You want to make sure you keep the boost to 7-13 psi espeshally if you have no control of the timing. The stock turbo ecu runs way to much timing and it will detonate! You must run the turbo fpr (1g is 38psi or 2g is 43psi) and I would recamend a walbro 190lph fuel pump at the minimum. Even at 7psi mine pulled way harder than any turbo with mild bolt ons at 17psi. It would have run low 13's with traction. But mine seen knock at 7psi with a 190lph and 450cc injectors Also I was maxing the injectors at 13psi. Make sure to hook up the knock sencor and monitor knock because it was the only thing saving my motor for a year. Also turbo maf and ecu are a must! I had a safc and had 50% added fuel with the 2g mass and still got 1-7 counts of knock. I had ported exhaust man, ported 16g, full exhaust, 2g maf, 2.5" uicp, 2" j-pipe, safc and ported cyclone intake also so it was not exactly stock. I eventualy overboosted it when my bsc malfunctioned and the stock 7 bolt spun two rod bearings and broke all four pistons ring glands when it went lean. Do it right and there has been people running 21psi on daily drivers n/t engines! Here is a picture of my n/t auto converted to manual turbo and now awd!

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[compression]

i will not be adding a knock sensor its like somebody constantly telling you your doing something wrong. the 2g fpr isnt exactly the same size if i recall correctly but the 1g automatic fpr is also 43.7 psi i will be using a manual 38 psi fpr however . i mainly wanted to get an idea on internal stregnth and seems like people have good luck with the turbo installation most of you did more then "just slap a turbo on and call it a day " which is great but i dont want to put a whole lot of cash into this, and the 14b is 9.8 psi? i dont think i ran the 14b for more then months on my and it was never hooked directly to a pressure source so i didnt know. is there an easy way to get less boost? could i drill another hole in the wastegate arm or something to get a lower boost. i am using a stock non ported 14b with some cracks in the housing () that should help out a little on the boost problem, i was going to use a maft ( i know this is going to sound stupid) and set the base for 450cc injectors and maybe richen it just a tad, i was not planning on using a wideband or datalogger to tune it .. i may just take it to a dyno so they can set up a consevative tune, how are the timing maps on a nt?




EDIT: if your reading this, this is before i accually tried it this way. save yourself the trouble buy the turbo ecu , knock sensor and run the wires.

 

[compression]

m not worried about the transmission , my father builds the them for a liviing, ive had my awd transmission in there a few times (shift fork, shift rail, center diff, all kinds of good stuff

 

[DSMunknown]

Might want to try contacting Brian (redeclipse7782). He used to have an E316G on his 420A.

 

[viprez586]

14b waste gate opens fully at 9.8 psi.

And with a 3" downpipe you'll creep past 15psi in no time.

 

[compression]

i think the 4g63 is easier and more common, because the parts are identical on the 2 and easy to come by, but i dont mind input on any non turbo to turbo situation.

 

[92tsifwd]

i will not be adding a knock sensor its like somebody constantly telling you your doing something wrong. the 2g fpr isnt exactly the same size if i recall correctly but the 1g automatic fpr is also 43.7 psi i will be using a manual 38 psi fpr however . i mainly wanted to get an idea on internal stregnth and seems like people have good luck with the turbo installation most of you did more then "just slap a turbo on and call it a day " which is great but i dont want to put a whole lot of cash into this, and the 14b is 9.8 psi? i dont think i ran the 14b for more then months on my and it was never hooked directly to a pressure source so i didnt know. is there an easy way to get less boost? could i drill another hole in the wastegate arm or something to get a lower boost. i am using a stock non ported 14b with some cracks in the housing () that should help out a little on the boost problem, i was going to use a maft ( i know this is going to sound stupid) and set the base for 450cc injectors and maybe richen it just a tad, i was not planning on using a wideband or datalogger to tune it .. i may just take it to a dyno so they can set up a consevative tune, how are the timing maps on a nt?

You can run the vacume line streight from the j-pipe to the turbo with the smallest shortest vacume line you can fit and I got 7psi on a 14b that way. If you run a free flowing exhaust it most liklely will boost creep (worse with a 16g). I would at least get a 34mm flapper installed and have the wastegate enlarged to match up. The 1g n/t ecu runs about 24* max timing with base timing at 5*, which is a bit high espeshally with 9.0.1 comp. There is only 10 load points in the n/t which is not as much control as the turbo. There is no knock board or bcs control either. You should shoot for about 16* and tune from there. The maf-t will only adjust fuel not timing. If you run the turbo ecu the timing will be better but still to high for pump gas. You can adjust your base timing down to 0* which will lower max timing 5* but then your fuel economy and low throttle will suffer. The 2g fpr is more comon and easier to get ahold of. It does require you to slot the bolt holes. The auto fpr is great if you can find one. Both are 43.5psi and raise fuel press per lb of boost. The n/t fpr will not.

 

[compression]

i have a logger and i can tune for timing, but since there is not knock sensor to retard the timing i will want to lower it quite a bit, i can do this by simply adjusting the cas correct?

i have a turbo fpr which is 38 psi but it is a rising fpr as well , im not concerned about fuel at all, i fear ill have to much , an evo 8 fuel pump ( which is comparable to a 190lph?) 450cc's and i want to run 7-8 psi max, i am a little nervous about detonation and preignition, and i dont have a turbo ecu to play with even if i wanted to wire in a knock sensor, gah i wish there was an easier way to adjust timing then sacraficing power in the low end, ( besides dsmlink and aem) 8 psi i really dont want to go over 18-19* of timing without being able to log knock.i guess i could always use the 450's and dump a shit load of fuel in the top end .(easy on the maft)

 

[compression]

i want to have a low power setup to be conservative, so im going to make a 2.5 exhaust to the cat and stock from cat back (eliminating cat) so i hope it doesnt creep that much , higher compression generates less heat then lower compression with more air, and a turbo works mainly off of heat so im not totally concerned about creeping., i do have some 390cc injectors ( from the automatic turbo model) i think i may use them. to make it easier to tune. the engine will hopefully be put into the car tommorrow, but i will not connect the intercooler pipes until i get all my ducks in a row. so i will post up my personal experience as soon as i can so this thread can be used as a reference for the next person to stumble on. .

 

[92tsifwd]

i want to have a low power setup to be conservative, so im going to make a 2.5 exhaust to the cat and stock from cat back (eliminating cat) so i hope it doesnt creep that much , higher compression generates less heat then lower compression with more air, and a turbo works mainly off of heat so im not totally concerned about creeping., i do have some 390cc injectors ( from the automatic turbo model) i think i may use them. to make it easier to tune. the engine will hopefully be put into the car tommorrow, but i will not connect the intercooler pipes until i get all my ducks in a row. so i will post up my personal experience as soon as i can so this thread can be used as a reference for the next person to stumble on. .

Ya, you just ground the plug on the firewall and turn the cas counter clock wise. You will need a timing light. You can actualy go -5*. Have you thought about a eprom ecu with a chip? Also make sure you have a good intercooler. The stock side mount ic got hot as hell on mine. even at 7psi. If you set your base timing to -3* it would give you about 16* at wot. Also remember that the lower the timing you run the more heat the engine makes. I would not go lower than 14* on stock internals. Your drivability and idle is going to suck though with that base timing.

 

[compression]

yea i have a timing light and a nice fmic its like 31x7x2.5 so im sure itll do great with 7 psi i ran a 12.30 with my gsx with this intercooler, i think 18* would probably be a little better thats like 0 -1* base timing ugh ill just have to start at -3* and see how bad it accually is, what happens if you dont ground the plug and just turn the cas? and wont the maft affect the timing maps? by lieng to the ecu about air readings wont it alter the timing maps?

 

[92tsifwd]

yea i have a timing light and a nice fmic its like 31x7x2.5 so im sure itll do great with 7 psi i ran a 12.30 with my gsx with this intercooler, i think 18* would probably be a little better thats like 0 -1* base timing ugh ill just have to start at -3* and see how bad it accually is, what happens if you dont ground the plug and just turn the cas? and wont the maft affect the timing maps? by lieng to the ecu about air readings wont it alter the timing maps?

If you don't ground the plug before you start it then it will show you actual timing and not base timing and the timing will bounce all around and it is harder to set and some say that it won't set. 18* is stock timing at 7k on a turbo that has 7.8.1 comp. I would set it at -3 and then once you get your a/f ratio set and boost set if you are not getting any knock add 1* each time untill you get knock then back it off. It will be hard for you to determin if you are knocking without a knock sencor. Even experienced tuners can not hear small amounts of detonation by ear. Another thing you will want to do is a boost leak test before you start it to make sure all is good before you tune it. The maf-t will alter timing slightly. The more fuel you add the less timing you get and the more you take away the more timing but, there are so many other things that effect timing like air temp, injector duty cycle, octane, elevation, airflow, barametric press, knock ext.

 

[Black_Bullet]

i will not be adding a knock sensor its like somebody constantly telling you your doing something wrong. the 2g fpr isnt exactly the same size if i recall correctly but the 1g automatic fpr is also 43.7 psi i will be using a manual 38 psi fpr however . i mainly wanted to get an idea on internal stregnth and seems like people have good luck with the turbo installation most of you did more then "just slap a turbo on and call it a day " which is great but i dont want to put a whole lot of cash into this, and the 14b is 9.8 psi? i dont think i ran the 14b for more then months on my and it was never hooked directly to a pressure source so i didnt know. is there an easy way to get less boost? could i drill another hole in the wastegate arm or something to get a lower boost. i am using a stock non ported 14b with some cracks in the housing () that should help out a little on the boost problem, i was going to use a maft ( i know this is going to sound stupid) and set the base for 450cc injectors and maybe richen it just a tad, i was not planning on using a wideband or datalogger to tune it .. i may just take it to a dyno so they can set up a consevative tune, how are the timing maps on a nt?

Id highly recommend putting a turbo ecu in it and a stock turbo knocksensor, and as many stock turbo parts that the N/T model doesnt have as you can. The more the better and easier things will be for you, trust me...

 

[compression]

well i highly recommend i do it myself but i dont have one laying around , . with the ecu not having a knock board would it still log it but not retard timing accordingly if i connected the wire to pin #9 or would it just go haywire? is there a way i could just hook up the knock sensor to like a voltmeter or something? and it would read like .04 for 4 couts of knock ?


how does everybody else tune without a knock sensor like honda guys? i know their compression is high as hell, as far as i know they set the af/r and maybe retard the timing a tad and thats it? i think the rule of thumb is 2*for every 50 hp? or something like that.

 

[turboglenn]

One fo our local "shops" just sold a guy a completely stock 1g N/T motor with a tubro kit on it as a built motor for his 1g gst... he almost got away with it until th car was at another shop for some work and i got a call asking how to identify a stock 1g n/T.. This same shop also just got accused of taking the built head of a customers car to keep for his own then giving the car back with a stock 1g head on it..

Needless to say he's going to court. I got by there today and saw these.. saw the receipts for the "built motors" and all.. I called this guy a friend too, and still would if he wasn't tripping over me taking a few extra days to buy a tranny he found me over a year ago..talk about a grudge! Looks liek karhma is about to take a bite out of some ones ass though.. feel bad for the guy, but there's no way to esxplain this and make it cool.

but yes you can use the NT block and just put a turbo on it, but for it to hold it needs better internals