how many slapped a turbo on a nt and called it a day?

[biglady112]

You guys are mistaken about the strength of a non turbo FWD tranny. I have personally rebuilt one. I wish mitsubishi put that technology into the turbo FWD trannys. The gears, syncros and shafts are truly that beefy.

It is so much better for gearing and strength, we are running one in the LSR 1G this spring for the texas mile and some quarter mile shakedown runs for the new power/boost levels.

 

[92tsifwd]

You guys are mistaken about the strength of a non turbo FWD tranny. I have personally rebuilt one. I wish mitsubishi put that technology into the turbo FWD trannys. The gears, syncros and shafts are truly that beefy.

It is so much better for gearing and strength, we are running one in the LSR 1G this spring for the texas mile and some quarter mile shakedown runs for the new power/boost levels.

I have personaly rebuild a 1g eclipse n/t trans out of a 2.0 5 speed and a turbo fwd 5 speed and a awd 5 speed and I can tell you the n/t is absolutely NO COMPARISON to the streanth of a turbo tranny. The gears are physicaly half the size. Just look at the physical size of the case side by side. Also weigh a turbo fwd tranny then weigh a n/t tranny. The turbo weighs another 50lbs. Look at the half shaft splines (tranny side) and compare. Plus the n/t clutch is physicaly smaller in diameter and even the performance clutches can't compare to a turbo performance clutch. I don't know what tranny you have seen, mabey a hybrid tranny but, quit feeding people false imformation unless you can back it up. That does not meen the n/t tranny can't work with 300hp but it will take more of a beating and not last as long as the turbo. The turbo fwd tranny has been taken into the 10's. Can you show me a n/t tranny that went 10's. No you won't see it.

 

[92tsifwd]

Id highly recommend putting a turbo ecu in it and a stock turbo knocksensor, and as many stock turbo parts that the N/T model doesnt have as you can. The more the better and easier things will be for you, trust me...

I agree 100%

 

[92tsifwd]

well i highly recommend i do it myself but i dont have one laying around , . with the ecu not having a knock board would it still log it but not retard timing accordingly if i connected the wire to pin 109 or would it just go haywire? is there a way i could just hook up the knock sensor to like a voltmeter or something? and it would read like .04 for 4 couts of knock ?


how does everybody else tune without a knock sensor like honda guys? i know their compression is high as hell, as far as i know they set the af/r and maybe retard the timing a tad and thats it? i think the rule of thumb is 2*for every 50 hp? or something like that.

Most hondas never had a option for a knock sencor unless they buy an expensive ecu upgrade like aem or a modified eprom and, you can consider dsms lucky to have that technology on the stock ecu. The knock sencor is a helpfull tool in tuning. The n/t has no knock board so if you hook up a knock sencor it would not know what to do with it. Also the n/t ecu was not made to handle the air flow you will be flowing now and will most likely hit fuel cut.

 

[biglady112]

92tsifwd, maybe you should look around the internet and see who I am and what kind of cars I have played with over the years. I am far from a newb. I will spread what ever information I feel is relative and is fact. I have personallt taken apart 3(three) F5M222 transmissions now with Nick Sutton. And they ALL looked the same to us. Maybe whatever you have seen was not, but the three trannies we have here were nuts on the inside. Is the tranny lighter? Yes. Did Nick do EXTENSIVE modifications to the bell housing and the middle case to clear a AWD dsm clutch? Yes. I have personally witnessed this car do three 1st through 4th shakedown runs. This on a cold tranny in the middle of colorado winter night. Then even done a 1-3 pull myself in the car. And just in case you question the cars ability, here is a little video of how the car sits power wise with its tune.

So I have seen a non turbo tranny that was beefy and take some serious abuse. And look forward to doing 200mph and 10-11 second passes with this tranny this spring. Have a nice day.

YouTube - Nick Sutton's Land Speed Talon

 

[compression]

im not building a 300 whp setup so lets take it down a notch here. i have toys to play with i have plenty of goodies for my gsx im just "slapping" a turbo on this car honestly if it blows up i wont cry, this could be a good reference for the next guy looking do the same thing,

i got the engine put into the car today , i need to go the junkyard next week and pick up a few things i need still and it should be running within a week so i will keep you posted

(sorry for picture quality im using my sprint instinct (cell phone)as a camara
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[compression]

Most hondas never had a option for a knock sencor unless they buy an expensive ecu upgrade like aem or a modified eprom and, you can consider dsms lucky to have that technology on the stock ecu. The knock sencor is a helpfull tool in tuning. The n/t has no knock board so if you hook up a knock sencor it would not know what to do with it. Also the n/t ecu was not made to handle the air flow you will be flowing now and will most likely hit fuel cut.

i know the knock sensor is prefered thats is perfectly clear but it would make this little project im doing a little too cost and labor intensive , i have these parts laying around, i had this rolling chassis laying around most hondas dont have a knock sensor and alot of the turbo honda run decenly well on a low boost setting. i know the nt ecu was not made to handle the air flow, but with the maft i will have to lean it out which will significantly lower the air flow readings i am almost doubling the injector size, so nearly cutting the air signal in half if im not mistaken. we will see how she performs when i get it running.
but yes your right, for those of you considering this and your buying parts to use, invest in a turbo ecu .. a buddy of mine turbocharged his 2.8 v6 camaro just because he had a turbo laying around, he used a bunjy cord attached to the flapper for a wastegate and he ran 10 psi on the stock setup, mind you it didnt run very well because of the air fuel ratio, but it did not blow up , he went 14.1 at the track with all stock and a large t3 turbo with a v6 2.8 , when it finally did blow up it was 15psi (he tied 4 knots in the bungy cord )and 150 shot of nitrous

the moral of the story is people turbo all kinds of cars, and alot of people get away just fine with it as long as you keep your boost , timing levels moderatly conservative. with the amount of parts and the fact that 90% does NOT require any custom fabrication for them to work makes this car a great canidate. its when you get used to 7 psi and turn it to 9 then turn in to 11 then 13 and so on and so on, thats when everything goes boom. like i said if i could rig it to run 5psi i would be happy , i have my other toys to play with if i want to go fast.

 

[compression]

not to mention i had a turbo 4g37 the 1.8 1g dsm and i ran that car for almost 2 years, until i got my gsx. it was my first dsm so i wasnt very patient that car seen 15psi on 390cc injectors (thats i could get out the that little sohc head and a 14b) it still ran when it was wrecked shortly after i got my gsx.'

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/1g-...turbod-finally-posting-link-dissbeleif-2.html

theres the thread for it, i was aloooot younger and immature back then so be open minded if you decide to go through the thread.

 

[spoonman]

I have performed many N/T to Turbo swaps and my most recent swap was performed on a 120,XXX mile N/T engine with little to no maitnance, and I swapped all of the necessary parts needed from a Manual turbo DSM that had been rear ended. I upgraded the fuel pump to a 190LPH and used the N/T FPR. Every other part required except the turbo was stock (intercooler, charge pipes). The turbo was a new small 16g. I dropped the base timing down to 1*, the wastegate would not displace enough exhaust so the turbo would boost into the 17-19 PSI range.
The car ran for months intill I ripped it all apart again for a rebuild.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Can you run e85? If so then you wont have to worry about knock, and you can just leave the timing at whatever and run low boost and just make sure the fuel system and clutch setup is up to par with what your going for.

 

[92tsifwd]

92tsifwd, maybe you should look around the internet and see who I am and what kind of cars I have played with over the years. I am far from a newb. I will spread what ever information I feel is relative and is fact. I have personallt taken apart 3(three) F5M222 transmissions now with Nick Sutton. And they ALL looked the same to us. Maybe whatever you have seen was not, but the three trannies we have here were nuts on the inside. Is the tranny lighter? Yes. Did Nick do EXTENSIVE modifications to the bell housing and the middle case to clear a AWD dsm clutch? Yes. I have personally witnessed this car do three 1st through 4th shakedown runs. This on a cold tranny in the middle of colorado winter night. Then even done a 1-3 pull myself in the car. And just in case you question the cars ability, here is a little video of how the car sits power wise with its tune.

So I have seen a non turbo tranny that was beefy and take some serious abuse. And look forward to doing 200mph and 10-11 second passes with this tranny this spring. Have a nice day.

YouTube - Nick Sutton's Land Speed Talon

Your transmission is not the average 91-94 TEL n/t trans then. You have done modifications to the bell housing and other things like you said above. The reason I know the parts are not enterchangeable or similer is because I wanted the use the n/t ring & pinion along with 3rd & 4th gear to put in my turbo fwd tranny. The ring gear in a turbo tranny is 7.5" in diameter and will not fit in a n/t tranny. The n/t I can't remember but it was noticably smaller in the 6" range plus, the bearings, gears, itermediate shaft, syncros, even 5th gear was smaller in the n/t. I will go outside and get the # off my n/t tranny for refference. I have rebuilt two n/t trannies (both identical 91 & 92) and 3 awd tannys 90, 91, 92, and a fwd turbo 92.

Here is a picture of the id tag on my n/t 2.0 tranny.

 

[Black_Bullet]

When I was first doing the research on doing the n/t to turbo swap on my N/T I recall reading from another member on this site ( Mavisky) who did the same swap and he said that he blew the nt trans twice with only like mid 200 whp range before he finaly switched out to the stock turbo trans, and hadnt had any problems since... Biglady Im not saying you dont know your stuff, but I always thought the N/T was weaker as well, and though I never took measurements or rebuilt anything like 92tsifwd did, I do recall it visually looking smaller on a few parts. If it truely was stronger why wouldnt top tranny shops use the N/T parts on a upgraded stock turbo tranny?

 

[92tsifwd]

not to mention i had a turbo 4g37 the 1.8 1g dsm and i ran that car for almost 2 years, until i got my gsx. it was my first dsm so i wasnt very patient that car seen 15psi on 390cc injectors (thats i could get out the that little sohc head and a 14b) it still ran when it was wrecked shortly after i got my gsx.'

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/1g-...turbod-finally-posting-link-dissbeleif-2.html

theres the thread for it, i was aloooot younger and immature back then so be open minded if you decide to go through the thread.

I am curious how the 1.8 did at the track with a turbo. I think I remember the thread on that one. I bet that 1.8 is under estimated

 

[compression]

i never ran the 1.8 =/ it probably would have went a higher 13 maybe a low 14, it wasnt the quickest thing around but it was unique. regardless im not worried about the transmission i bet ill have less problems then i did with my stock awd tranny

 

[compression]

ok got the engine in, got her started up for some reason i have a 1.8 mafs sensor and it wont run with it, so i unplug it and it goes in limp mode (spelling?) first thing first, it smokes im pretty sure its the turbo but it could possibly be the engine, but im going to have this turbo rebuilt i suppose, the fuel pump was locked up solid so that gave me a great opportunity to install my evo 8 fuel pump (190lph?).

edit i think its just running extremly rich

 

[bastard dsm]

i used a n/t tranny on my rs a long time ago and the first 1 blew up and the 2nd one blew out 3rd
and 2nd gear. the 3rd one lasted for the 2 weeks that i had it and then i got a turbo trans.

 

[compression]

ok so update i cut and spliced the mafs plug and installed the turbo plug which is 7 wires instead of 6 , if possible i would just like a confirmation, you connect all but the 1 wire , its like an idle something or other, and the nt harness doesnt have it, thats what i did and i also installed the gm mafs with the maft and went ahead and put in the 450cc's with the resistor box, im pretty sure i got the resistor box hooked in right, my concern in the maft, how does it work with a nt ecu? i mean you would think it just alters the air flow readings? its not running all that well, ( it idles so ) and the maft has a setting for 440 being the lowest for a 1g dsm , do i set it for 450's? or since my ecu is made for 240s do i set it for like 660? or something? im really stuck here. im ready to connect this turbo and try it out but i cant get it to run right without the turbo,

 

[compression]

this is the wire left over from the turbo plug swap.

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[compression]

and the nt injectors have a longer .. umm shaft? then the turbos so it doesnt fit as far into the head as the nt injectors, i think thats the way they are if im not mistaken? some clarification would be greatly appreciated as well thanks in advance.

 

[92tsifwd]

The 7th wire that you would normaly add for the turbo conversion runs from the maf to the ecu & is for the idle position switch and you can leave it disconected as far as I know when using the n/t ecu. It may throw a CEL. I have not verified it but, plan to soon when I install my evo maf on the n/t. Make sure you put in new injector seals because I have got major vacume leaks there and it will make the car run poorly. Your fp is at 48-53psi with the n/t reg and is only good for 13psi so, remember that. The maf-t will be asuming you are running 38psi and you will need to take away alot of fuel with the maf-t at idle and low throttle. It would be a good idea to get a wideband or some form of datalogger at least. Start at idle wach your low fuel trims and adjust your injector size untill you get it at 100%. Then take it on the highway and and fine tune mid and high fuel trims. Ten after you are satisfied with that attempt to tune wot as long as you are not boost creeping or hitting fuel cut. I don't know of very many who have put a gm maf on a n/t, so there is not alot of info about it.

 

[compression]

i have a turbo fpr (mt 38psi) i could easily put that in there, i was planning on it because it rises 1:1 , but as far as idle i didnt think it affected idle, i have a data logger that i havent played with in a few years, i need to dust it off and sync it . fuel trims could take a while to set =\ i also have a wideband o2 sitting in this box, but its for my awd, maybe i could hook it up temporarlity to this car of course i would have to wait until there is some sort of exhaust system on it, being as its just o2 dumping right now., and i see that nobody really runs the maft on a nt, everybody switches to turbo ecu, but damnit i want to use the nt, im going to get this thing running correctly and im going ot clarify a few things too when i do.


edit:
verification, not connecting the 7th wire (idle posistion switch) does not throw a cel, at least not on my car

 

[92tsifwd]

i have a turbo fpr (mt 38psi) i could easily put that in there, i was planning on it because it rises 1:1 , but as far as idle i didnt think it affected idle, i have a data logger that i havent played with in a few years, i need to dust it off and sync it . fuel trims could take a while to set =\ i also have a wideband o2 sitting in this box, but its for my awd, maybe i could hook it up temporarlity to this car of course i would have to wait until there is some sort of exhaust system on it, being as its just o2 dumping right now., and i see that nobody really runs the maft on a nt, everybody switches to turbo ecu, but damnit i want to use the nt, im going to get this thing running correctly and im going ot clarify a few things too when i do.

Idle's target a/f should be at 14.7.1 Also, the n/t's target a/f is like a 12.2.1 a/f at wot stock which is a tad lean for pump gas so, you will need to add a bunch of fuel on your wot setting on the maf-t to get it at 11.0.1 just to remind you. It has been a while sence I messed with my maf-t because my car is curently dissmantled but, doesn't it have low mid and high thr settings and a base knob for the whole rpm band which is the injector setting knob? Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[compression]

yes its default settings are mainly for idle, mid, and wot

http://www.fullthrottletech.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10

but if you connect the white wire to your cas, you can use rpm mode and tune by rpms as well

http://www.fullthrottletech.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11

 

[Black_Bullet]

You could've just connected that injector resistor pack at the firewall.
You could've opened the thick wiring harness split loom at the firewall right above the black fuel filter and spliced the wires in right there, and it would've came out a lot cleaner and more towards the stock location. Wish I had some pics of when I did it back in the day on a different dsm.

 

[compression]

i tried to open it up and look for the wires and it damn near gave me a headache. so i said the hell with it. that was just a temporary thing it will be run cleaner when its all said and done. but thank you for the constructive critisism its what motivates me .